suprised I agreed so wholy with rope on rugby points.

thats not meant to be as petty bas it sounds

Is Jerry still a garbo in the off-season?

Damn. That was the most inspiring rugby story I'd ever heard, bar Bucko and his scrot.

poor loser.

I read recently something about how he's the 3rd most winning AB captain ever.

I rate him, as a player and a stand-up decent NZer. I dig his appraoch over soooo many others. However its quite exciting that he's missed out on the team. It feels like the right decision at this time.

Caleb Ralph? how did he sneak back into the team? That guy drops more try-ball than anyone.

or is it spelt Jono? ah, yes.

it's all fair and well listing team achievements noizy, but don't insinuate that Reuben Thorn lead anyone to anything. Time and time again it was blatantly obvious he couldn't motivate the team at crucial times. A captain needs to be outstanding, lead by example, his play was consistantly average, how do you expect a team to follow that? He was never the man for the position.

Nice guys finish last.

//cully

each and every day, each and every day man ;D

I still believe he'll be back for next WC and have beaten Campo's record for test tries by then.

//I don't need to insinuate it - he did it. do you listen to the coaches and players he's been involved with? they all rate him as a top class captain.

While he technically 'lead' them, I think there is a difference between influence and results, however complex. With regards to the positive comments, I've talked to a few high-level players who pretty much said they didn't respect him enough as a player to 'believe' him as a captain. Representation in the media is a whole different story. Not trying to imply that I know the truth or that all players don't rate his leadership, but the amount of players I've drunkenly rambled to at length about the state of the AB's leads me to believe he's not the magical leader some (especially those fucking Cantab one-eyed bastards, eh Noizy ;) ) people claim he is.

//a couple of Super 12 titles to those international trophies as well, while we're at it. what have the hurricanes ever won under the inspirational leadership of tana umaga?

Let's not underestimate the superlative quality of administration in Canterbury since the Crusaders franchise began. They have an efficient, professional, well drilled attitude within the cogs of the machine and that plays out in a large way on the paddock. Styles of play for NZ franchises are eerily symptomatic of the wider admin. and even regional environment when you really have a think. Canterbury is well known for having good teams (which of course seduces more good players to the region) and fitting newcomers in to succeed within that aleready strong team. Look at Ron Fucking Cribb, among many others, as a player who was made to look very very good at Canterbury and has pretty much been shithouse everywhere else.

// close run thing against the poms (when Carlos didn't have his kicking boots on), and the semi-final disaster against Aussie (when Carlos gifted them a try and gave them a lead we couldn't claw back).

There's no way you can blame that one intercept as a) totally Carlos' fault and for b) the losing of the game. If Reuben was such a good captain why didn't we claw it back? It wasn't just him, like it wasn't just Carlos. The biggest problem I have is when the best players in their position aren't chosen. Jerry is a far better 6, I don't think anyone argues with that.

//// so you listen to the coaches and players he's been involved with?

No because i've never met any of them, if you have then i'll back down.

When people began to question Thorn's ability and leadership, all the testimonials started coming out of the bag, from players, coaches, next door neighbours - i believe none of it, i'm only calling what i see on the park. so when i see a captain that can't even cement his position, how can i deem him worthy of being a leader?

// While we're at it, what have the Hurricanes ever won under the inspirational leadership of Tana Umaga?

hahaha thats very very funny. call me harsh sheesh dude, sad on the poor ol 'canes. You can lead a horse to water etc.... hah

so basically all this could have been avoided if i hadn't of said the guy sucked balls

nice chopping of me with the localism :) classic.

Nice points noizy. but

//the full skill/physical set (and for Reuben, that really just means a couple of inches of height, and the ability to physically scare opponents a la Jez Collins).
Teeheehee. It would appear I (not to mention G Henry) disagree with you - it's not a small difference in height or something trivial. To paraphrase the new coach "We want Reuben to stop being a clean-up player, who plays as a mop up after everyone else. We need him to be more proactive and physically dominating." Don't you think if he could, he would?

//who else can you blame for an intercept

Come on bro. It's not as if it was an unforced error like a knock on or losing the ball in a tackle. Intercepts are a calculated risk taken by defences usually when they want to break the game open in a tight one. Usually they come off like chumps, but this time it actually worked, for a number of reasons, including fate. Theoretically any pass can be intercepted, but if Mortlock had missed the pill we were in in the corner.

// // the full skill/physical set (and for Reuben, that really just means a couple of inches
// // of height, and the ability to physically scare opponents a la Jez Collins).

// Teeheehee. It would appear I (not to mention G Henry) disagree with you
// "We need him to be more proactive and physically dominating."

Aren't we saying the same thing? "physically scare opponents" = "physically dominating"

Sorry noizy - wasn't very clear. What I mean is that scaring someone (which Jerry can do by just being on the field, the big mofo that he is) is different from being an effective physical presence in the game. As in, Jerry doesn't just put in scary big hits, he cleans out rucks, makes heaps of tackles, supports the ball carrier, etc. Reuben is largely an onlooker. And I'm not just blurting that out, so anyone who wants to say I'm a cunt can go away. I've specifically watched Reuben for large amounts of games (and then for fairness' sake watched others in the same way) and the guy is pretty much a physical pedestrian, not just a little bit smaller and shorter.

C'mon now... these's plenty of room for both codes. (Hope those Blek Keps go well tonight)

manamana im not angry - youve never met me, so how do u know im bald??

whats up then? why post something like that? i don't get it man. actually don't stop 'cause i think i'd miss it. Did you find me a nice Torana yet?

blair has a way to go before he can hold that tag, I bet he was more embaraced than anyone about that comment.

I know mitch acted like a cock, but he was not a totally loss, if not a bit missguided, I think if he surrounded himself with a few better people and did not go into his arse talking shell, he would of shown how good he really could be. Mitch uncovered some really good players, but didn't have all the selections right almost right though, which was his downfall.... afterall he sorted out those english forwards a few years back, and whos got the cup.

at the end of the day it was the lack of leadership and experience that lost the world cup, not mitch.. I think we have now what was lacking last year.

i see where you are coming from and i like where you are coming from. you make a lot of sense and i see from your link you have been seeing this coming for a long time.......you are wise dust.and pretty.
here is an unrelated joke i just got told which i love.....

paddy lost his job as an electrician at the local prison. he refused to fix the electric chair.
said it was a F%#*ing death trap....

oh how i laughed.