NZ MUSIC MONTH posters over local gig posters?

This subject has been brought up before and a few people posted their stories but I just thought I'd share mine.

I'm putting on a show on Saturday night on the shore where I live, featuring well known bands in the area. It's all ages, only $5 and there is no way we're going to cover the costs... We thought it was more important to put on a good concert for the kids and make it a price they could afford. All the bands involved have put in their own time, effort and money in to this event in order to make it happen which is why I am so fucked off right now.

After pasting posters up for the last couple of weeks... up to 4 hours, 2 nights a week, I drove past today and noticed large "NZ MUSIC MONTH" posters pasted over ours in some areas. I understand Profile Plus have areas in town for their posters, but on the North Shore I know they don't. It is illegal to post up posters as it is seen by the community as a form of grafiti, however, the council doesn't mind posters in areas where there are other posters.. as they find it too hard to police.

Under the motorway at Tristam Ave is a good example of where they have placed posters straight over the top of ours.... when you see the other posters in that particular location, there are plenty of posters advertising events which have already taken place and are over. There was plenty of room to poster next to ours but they had to paste directly over ours!

Sure, we have advertising on Channel Z and posters up in schools and we're expecting the gig to sell out. But the point is, I spent my own time and money on glue and petrol sticking those posters up... and then some fucking idiots (who are getting paid for what they do) go and ruin most of our posters. Before that, profile plus hadn't been in months!

I thought NZ MUSIC MONTH was about promoting New Zealand Music??? It just seems fucking wrong to me that they've gone out postering over posters for local gigs..

Forums: NZ Music,

you're completely right - this totally defeats the purpose of putting up the NZ Music Month posters at all. but as you say, it won't be their fault at all or their aim - it's the poster putter-upper company's fault. hopefully they get rarked-out for it. dumb-asses!

Ha ha, local gig posters covered up by big green beasts here too! The irony kicks my ass!

I know people have written threads complaining about Profile Plus before - have you contacted them to complain? It might not do much good, but it could help you feel more constructive.

We've complained to Sticky Fingers and I've talked to people who've complained and worked out something with them and then the next day they were back to the same old tricks. They're notoriously unpopular assholes.

Same here. They didn't keep their word.

Maybe complaining to the people who hired profile plus is the way to go. Does anyone know who I write to exactly?

We have exactly the same problem in Wellington but they're called Sticky Fingers. They say they own places in town but the truth is those places are council owned and are there for anyone to put posters up. If my band want to get good coverage we have to go out at least every 2nd night to stick more up or rip off coke ads or other shit that have been posted over ours.
Its the only way for us to do it cos we can't afford to print out 50 posters then pay $80 for them to put up maybe 10 of them. If your spending a lot of your own time putting up advertising and they're posting over yours just tear the fuckers down. Thats fair.
It does defeat the purpose of NZ music month, but remember its all about money not music.

//They say they own places in town but the truth is those places are council owned and are there for anyone to put posters up

Yeah I was always under the impression that they "owned" those spots or at the lest owned the rights to use them. Anyone got any concrete confirmation either way on this issue?

Do Sticky's have exclusive rights to these spots or are they free for all?

Same issue in auckland/ nationwide??

I think when there's a construction site and they have huge walls around it, it's owned by the construction site and the poster companies pay them money to put up posters or if it's on the side of a building, they pay the owner of the building.

But under motorways and on any other concrete walls or other structures, they are owned by the council and the council don't allow it.

so what about thoose dedicated poster sites such as the poles in cuba st, walls etc?

Stickys "lease" spots off the council. I guess in free for all areas its exactly that - free for all. Its the same when people poster over stickys postering.
However I dont agree that big marketing campaigns like nz music month should have a right over local gig posters in free for all spots. They have, remember, payed for prime marketing locations. And obviously if it was a prime marketing position it would be owned or leased by the postering company already.
Sticky Fingers is a good postering company who takes the effort to support smaller clients like local bands and offer them discounts. I have found them most pleasant to deal with.
Phantom Billstickers was also very helpful for getting postering done in chch, dunedin, hamilton and auckland and even sent me photos of where the posters had been placed so that I was happy with the campaign.

We were told off by a council officer for putting some posters up somewhere we weren't supposed to but he told us he hates sticky fingers too and that they don't own any of the cuba poles or anything like that. They just go out and nazi them all the time and tell people they own them to deter them from using them. What really pisses me off is when they actually rip down the ones you put up. Maybe it's not them but whoever it is deserved a good kicking. You spend a lot of time and effort and all you're doing is trying to garner some publicity for a show you're charging $5 on the door for and hardly ever break even on.
And I've found them very pleasant to deal with too, doesn't mean they don't fuck you around.

They make some effort with some bands and offer pretty pitiful discounts. This I've discovered through my dealings with them. But they are only interested in the highest bidder. If I went in and said I want 100 A1 colour posters they'd suddenly be my best friend, regardless of what I'm advertising local bands or otherwise.

In a lot of cases Sticky fingers actually pays the $5000 cost of erecting the bollards, so in effect they do own them. That is still no excuse for being the monopolistic c***t's that they so often are.

http://dragstrip.orcon.net.nz ]

my little brother had some mad battles with them while postering for the Fevah new year party, with sticky fingers sometimes pasting over the fevah posters 3 or 4 times per day...

i know quite a few people who tear down a lot of the corporate crap that sticky fingers post on walls and bollards - big A1 adverts for jeans and condoms that have no place on poster bollards whether the council owns them or not

He's right. It's always about money, not music.
As far as the people who are getting those posters put up are concerned, NZ music month is not about giving fresh new NZ artists a helping hand. It's about trying to sell a few more Scribe records.

//It's about trying to sell a few more Scribe records.

That's not too different from how I see it all...and out of curiosity, perhaps Noizy can help out here, who pays for the NZ Music Month campaign?

I had this problem the other night, i work for my student union and spent a fair amount of my shift on tuesdat night putting up posters around uni for Tomorrow nights gig. Within 2 hours they had been covered over - Didnt even spare some of them just tarteged my posters everytime.

I personaly think its rude when the uni can't advertise gigs on its on notice boards on campus.

I think sticky fingers really can be bastards down here

Thats sooo gutting gezz i'd be pissed! oh..and tempted to go do some hmm....pretty lil spray paintings ova them REVENGE is sweet!!

I think they believe if they cover over your stuff it'll teach you a lesson.
It's true, I think they are just fuckwits down here. I've heard of assault charges to do with them as well.

exactly the same thing goes on in CHCH with Bantam Pillstickers and has for years. i remeber doing late night poster runs 10 years ago with my band only to have all of them covered or ripped down by these assholes. my brother experienced threats and intimidation from them when he did poster runs on behalf of local bands a few years ago. i noticed posters on the city mall bollards yesterday decrying some of the things that PB get up too. Like telling local business that they have exclusive rights on the bollards, when in fact they don't.
wankers!

here's a suggestion - we need to contact each city council and get them to work out with Phantom / Sticky etc a single place where non-commercial posters only are allowed. It doesn't need to be big, a single advertising poll in a well-observed area that phantom / sticky CAN'T touch, for bands to put up low-key band advertisements. i reckon this, coupled with your standard record / clothing store poster hanging would be plenty for your smaller bands, without really causing a fuss with the commercial posters (who are only really protecting their income, anyway).

what do you think?

http://thebigcity.co.nz ]

Good idea, that way when people know about these places they can go and check out whats on.

Should it work the opposite way too? I saw some gig posters on top of the NZ music months ones today. There was a block of them, so the 1 gig poster really stood out in the middle of all the green.

maybe they'd read this post... or maybe their posters were underneith also.

If anyone wants to put up their own stuff (in Wellington at least) the best idea is to do it early in the morning. I'm pretty sure they do their runs about 5:00-6:00 in the morning and I don't even think they do it every day. But that way at least they're up for a whole day. We put some up Friday day and they were there on the Saturday.
For glue just mix up flour and boiling water in a bucket. It's the cheapest option and its what they use too. Just make sure you glue the edges down well, makes it harder to peel off. :)

http://www.slavecadaver.net ]

Right, here goes:

1) If it wasn't for poster companies every poster wall would be a mess of posters that nobody could read and everyone would paste over each other all the time. Can you imagine: someone goes in at 6, someone else at 7, someone else at 8 ..............
2) Most poster companies give good discounts to unsigned artists, community arts groups and often do postering for FREE for charities eg The Foundation for the Blind. They way they can afford to do this is by postering for corporates who can afford to pay full price, thats why use see condom posters and vodafone etc
3) Lots of there sites are leased, that means they pay money to the owner to put posters up. And some companies do actually own bollards.
4) Both Phantom and Sticky Fingers work closely with City Councils around issues such as bollards etc In fact if it werent for these companies probably alot of city councils would scrap postering altogether. I know there are people in council that view posters as graffitti and we are very lucky that the poster companies work so hard ( and spend money) to prove them wrong.
5) Postering is not expensive, it is in fact the cheapest form of advertising. And they are experts at it. Thats what you are paying for. You are also paying for them to go out everyday of the year (including christmas) to check your posters, to give you reports and send you photos, to give you advice, and to make sure no other campaign has preference over yours. In a poster company every poster is equal and therefore gets equal space on a wall (obviously dependant on how big they are and how many you have but you get the point)
6) If you think you are hard done by because your posters have been covered over by a poster company think about what YOU covered over. A lot of people (and I dont mean to generalise here but this is my experience) who do there own postering dont care about what they are covering either. If your posters are being covered by a poster company (and I can't speak for auckland here as I completely agree that postering in auckland is a mess and not particularly effective) than more than likely you have also covered up a poster placed by the poster company and that poster is probably for the local dance studios end of year show, a dance studio that probably has no money and that the poster company is more than likely putting up for next to nothing. (This is just an example but I have seen this sort of thing many times).
7) If you are a poor struggling band, and lets be realistic here, we mostly all are, than instead of going out and doing your own postering and covering up other peoples posters and than complaining when the poster company covers yours, why don’t you try talking to them! Ring them up, make an appointment to go see them, tell them the situation. They know how you feel, lots of posterers are in or involved with bands themselves. Why not organise a sponsorship deal? Get their logo on your poster in exchange for a bigger discount of postering. There are solutions.
8) Never, never use flour and water, Yuck! It looks exactly like someone has held a poster to a wall and asked a passing drunk to throw up on it and the surrounding pavement. NO poster companies use flour and water.
9) University bollards and noticeboards are controlled by student associations, poster companies have no right to cover you up there. And again I cant speak for Auckland but in Christchurch Phantom asks permission to poster uni bollards. If you have a problem in this area you need to go talk to someone in the students association.

And since I’m on a roll I may as well make a……….
10) Most poster companies are not there to fuck with nz musicians, in fact the definition of a poster company is “To Promote The Arts”. Sure they do corporate posters but why not. Its legitimate advertising and it brings you information in a colourful and interesting way. But before you all rant off about poster companies, just do this one thing for me okay: ring up The Royal New Zealand Ballet, ring up The Cholmondy Childrens home, ring up The Court Theatre, ring up The Dux De Lux, ring up Mike Chunn and ask them what they think of Phantom or Sticky Fingers.
Sure no company is perfect, but these companies work really hard to make posters work and to help kiwi musicians and the arts. Don’t complain about them on here (and how juvenile to paste anti-Phantom posters in chch, I mean come on, do people not have the guts to ring up a company and have a simple conversation with them?)
GO TALK TO THEM! Tell them your situation. Be proactive.

Ok I believe you are correct in what you have said. But how can anyone explain what happened in my situation?

I would use the postering company in auckland, but from past experience, they have postered over the posters we paid them to stick up 2 days after they were up. When I approached them in the street, they had no answer as to why it had happened.

honestly tape, who do you work for?
it's like the RSPCA posting over a notice reporting a lost cat

...and if you have gone in and talked to them, explained your situation, asked why they seem to think your target areas are in dark corners and had more resolved smashing your head against a wall what do you do then?
Come on I want a 500 word essay on the matter.
Talking with people will only help if they're willing to listen and seeing I don't have a lot of money to give them I'm shit out of luck. And when I go around I make an effort to make sure we paste over old shows or perhaps movie poster or things that already have enough advertising as is. Even then we wouldn't cover the whole thing.
If they were as helpful as you've described them as would so many people be complaining?

As a side note:

In mid 90's (approx) Seattle City banned posters from poles and other council property. This from a city that housed one of the most important poster-driven movements in the history of counter culture. Art Chantry (the king of indie poster art) moved away from his beloved Seattle not long after that.

Thats sucks, go to any city in the world and the amount of posters will tell you how much culture there is in that city, in a nutshell - posters reflect culture.

For auckland, heres my advice. make sure you get a detailed contract from the poster company with all the details of your poster campaign (ie how many posters you have, areas that you want them to go, how long they will be up for, and over how many weeks etc). Then demand a report from the poster company on a monday, with photos. take that report and check every site and make sure your posters are actually there. Count how many posters have gone up and compare that with how many you are meant to have up for that week. There should be at least 80% of your posters up. they do need to keep some back in case they get rained on or damaged. If you arent happy with your campaign then complain straight away, go down to their office in person. Basically if you have a contract with the terms of your campaign and they dont stick to that then they are breaching their contract.

For free for all poster walls there is nothing you can do about being covered up. Period. Its going to happen.

Oh the battles we have had here in Palmerston North, absolute battles. The people who poster here all know each other and respect each others posters and know how to poster ( clean lines and symatry ) EXCEPT the commercial postering company who come here, they are total cunts and no amount of contact or communication has stopped them from coming in with their big A1 and A0 sized posters and covering us all up. I believe there is a by-law preventing the covering of arts events before their due date, however the council is not interested in enforcing this. Nice one.

i found that a better (and cheaper) way to advertise is to make small flyers and put them in cafes/record stores etc. that way people have all the gig info written down and they can put it in their pocket and not forget when the gig is.

Well, in my experience, what Tape says doesn't apply because bands resort to putting up their own posters because they dont get a fair deal from the companies, thats the whole point. Everybody I know who does their own postering is very considerate of others posters, because they're shit scared of pissing othger people off and having thier stuff ripped down, and because often the other posters are from bands they know. Its true the poster companies deliberately try and stamp out independents, thats why this whole thing has flared up. Why shouldn't be thankfull for the poster companies. When you take posters to them you are employing them, not the other way around. Its true they could just not take small posters, but they do so in an effort to control everything, not to help us out. Billboards belong to everyone. Most users are considerate, but the big bully just wants it all to himself.

Tape, The problem is that copanies such as sticky fingers have been allowed to dominate leaving people with absoloutely no choice in the matter, something that I think is objectionable in itself, wether or not the aesthetics of professional tidiness are preferable. Alot of people have access to photocopying and cheap paste and it is ridiculous that we are in a situstion where it is now expected we pay for something we can just as easily do ourselves. Cheap rates for bands are still rates. Yes it is a relatively cheap medium as you say and I think this is why it hurts so much that large companies such as nike and vodafone are getting in on it and taking up space, street postering has for a long time been one of the only accessible means of promotion for bands just starting out, while larger companies have always had plenty of other options available to them.I understand that the council probably see posters as an inevitable menace and that doing it yourself will never gaurenteee what you put up will stay up but there are some that would be willing to risk that if they could find a square inch of space anywhere. Fuck sponsership, you don't and shouldn't need it, you just need to stop using companies such as stickyfingers who create false needs quoting so called punk rock backgrounds and destructively limiting space available to those who realise that it isn't that fucking hard to get their chums together, mix up some paste and put up some posters round town.

I've totally missed the boat with this forum, but it is my pet topic so here goes:

I agree entirely with pinktricity. The problem is the dominance of companies such as sticky fingers. Poster companies can be good, but poster companies with monoplies are evil. Because they hold such a large chunk of the postering market, they can get away with charging high prices and tearing down other the posters of what little competition there is.These practices do real harm to local music and to basically any small event that relies on postering.

A major cause of the dominance problem is that councils give exclusive licences to companies. If there were a number of alternatives available, these companies couldn’t get away with such high prices, because people would choose another or company, or would do it themselves. And they couldn’t get away with tearing down other posters, as everyone else would tear down their posters in return. With exclusive licences, companies do what they like, and do a fair bit of damage to local arts in the process. Tape’s propoganda is only going to make things worse.

I see two solutions: 1. avoid using companies like sticky fingers at any cost. Basically, ignore the exclusive licences. Tell all your friends to do the same. Some of the other posts include good suggestions for doing it yourself. The less dominant companies like sticky fingers become, the less inclined they will be to tear down other posters, because they know the same could happen to them in return. And the fairered their prices will become; 2. perhaps local councils could be lobbied to stop giving exclusive licences to a company. This will mean that all posterers, whether a companies or independents, can fairly share the same space.

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