I was in Real Groovy today and happened to see the new Opshop album in the new releases section. I'm not really a fan of their stuff but I though I'd have a look. Anyway, I open it and out falls this little BNZ flyer saying "Wouldn't you rather spend your money on a new CD instead of bank fees?"; basically a BNZ advertisement sitting right there in their album.
I have to say that I was more than a little surprised by this. I know some bands don't mind appearing in or using their songs to sell products etc. (even though I find this deplorable), but having a bank ad inside your album cover??!! This is really sinking to new depths. Anyway, I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Good? Bad? Lets hear some opinions.
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There's a great line in Douglas ...
There's a great line in Douglas Coupland's book Microserfs where one character is talking about corporate sponsorship of everything and says something like "pretty soon
instead of saying it's 2 o'clock we'll say it's Pepsi". It's getting more like that every day and worth discussing.
Personally, I would have thought having your song in a ad would be worse than a flyer in a CD. You can throw away the flyer and never give a shit about it again. And the BNZ flyer is an inevitable progression from what's gone before - I've bought CDs before that have had flyers for other artists on the same label. The Mondo Generator album even has an ad for another (admittedly closely related) band at the end of the CD.
Does anyone know who put the flyer there? The band? The label or distributor? Real Groovy? Who gets the money?
//The Mondo Generator album even has an ...
//The Mondo Generator album even has an ad for another (admittedly closely related) band at the end of the CD.
even thou you can barely hear what he is saying at times, because the background music is quite loud.
Funny thing is Nick & Josh are on bad terms now & Josh's music is advertising on Nick's album!!
//Nick & Josh are on bad terms ...
//Nick & Josh are on bad terms now//
Man thats sad- i wonder what happened
that is quite an ingenious idea ...
that is quite an ingenious idea really.
big ups to the idea man.
My attitude towards the whole advertising thing is basically, neh.
You can go all shock, horror, my soul is scarred from your endeavour to sell me something especially once I bought something or cool another ad to add to my collection. oh ha ha, add, ad. ha.
But really you choose whether to ignore it or not. As foaf said, you can throw away the flyer.
at least its not part of the cover art, ...
at least its not part of the cover art, so its not that bad
that's the thing I don't get... ...
that's the thing I don't get... people get so bent out of shape about advertising, but if you're aware enough to get upset about it, you're aware enough to be able to completely ignore it. If you're the impressionable type who finds themselves buying tons of junk you don't need for reasons undefined, perhaps then you'd have just cause to get mad at advertising, but really you should just get mad at yourself for being a mindless drone
People just like to complain I guess.
FIGHT THA MAN! FUCK CORPORATIONS! GENERIC CALL TO ARMS!
Like bitching ever solved anything...
//if you're aware enough to get upset ...
//if you're aware enough to get upset about it, you're aware enough to be able to completely ignore it.
Thank you for a very nice short sentence that I know is going to come in very useful amongst so many boring "all advertising is evil" rants.
Of course you can just ignore it, throw ...
Of course you can just ignore it, throw away the flyer and pretend you never saw it, but that is not the point. It did happen, it was there, a bank is fucking advertising in someones album! If you let it go at this stage then it keeps getting worse. The advertisers will keep encroaching on artistic space until there is no difference between a piece of art and the lastest McDonalds commercial.
I know we have opened the old chestnut, art vs. commerce, and that this is an arguement that will never be won. Hopefully people will at least think about it and question whether they really want this in their local music store.
get a grip man... there are a hell of a ...
get a grip man... there are a hell of a lot worse things happening in the world than some company putting a piece of paper in a CD cover.
Unless the companies are actually affected the music itself, it really isn't an issue. Until I hear bands actually writing songs about their sponsors or brands, it's more or less about the bands keeping themselves in a position where they can actually afford to do what they love. You may or may not be aware that New Zealand isn't exactly the easiest country to be a full time musician in.
Hell, read the quote I pasted from Isaac Brock below...
yes, it's an argument that is hard to ...
yes, it's an argument that is hard to crack.
But I think it's the very nature of what's being advertised here that makes it so vile,
I mean I have never heard Opshop but I assume they are a fledgling band looking to get their name out there etc and for them to have adverts for the bank of new zealand falling out of the album sleeve, it's rather revolting and in the very least it doesnt do much for their "street image" but heck someone's gotta pay the bills as they say.
What makes it okay for the Sex Pistols on their Filthy Lucre tour to play at Trump Plaza pertains to another level of irony altogether, a quite different sphere to Opshop. I just hope the Opshop boys get a discount on bank fees becoz let's face it, the banks are all raping us kids.
Hmmm. In a realist sense I'm really ...
Hmmm. In a realist sense I'm really aligned with that quote below... but when it becomes more theoretical I start wondering if I am actually so ambivalent about it.
Just reading a lefty quote in regards to being addressed as a consumer rather than a citizen in the idealised form; "Regardless of its 'effect' - or lack of it - on our behaviour, we are consenting to its domination of the public space." And that's pretty true, which almost bothers me a little, perhaps maybe. But then I go and watch live music and I'm happy again.
advertising is inevitable nowadays and ...
advertising is inevitable nowadays and you can just biff it. But I'd have been surprised by that too Ollie. Something about putting a flyer in the CD case right there next to the music feels a little off. I buy a magazine knowing full well I'll get advertising. I buy a CD for the whole experience - not just the music- I'm in it for the artwork, the printing on CD label even the way the spine will look on the shelf. Someone slipping in some advertising like that feels a little invasive. Maybe it's becuase it's for a bank instead of something music related? Ah well, I suppose we'll be seeing more of that in the future, this opens up a whole new product line for advertisers. God knows I'm not against advertising.... struggling to make a point...will shut up now.
As far as I'm concerned corporate ...
As far as I'm concerned corporate sponsership ,endorsements or any association with corporations is totally fucked and takes away from the music. You can argue all you want about how the money they provide gives you more power to promote yourselves or to actually earn a living but I strongly believe its actually taking power away from the individuals who make the music, demonstrates a sever lack of belief in themselves and connects personal expression with capitalism. Having said that it comes as no surprise to me that a band such as opshop would allow this to happen.
mildly ironic that a corporate identity ...
mildly ironic that a corporate identity in the business of money is fending for consumer eye-time in an "Opshop" cd cover - (phnar phnar)
this circular-type of promo woulda been gold for OMC back in the day
just for interest's sake, does anyone ...
just for interest's sake, does anyone remember sigue sigue sputnik, and their debut album from nearly 20 years ago?
they sold advertising space between tracks on their debut album, and the album artwork was covered in corporate sponsorship. great things was that the album was a full-on piece of sci-fi-punk-sleaze, and yet they still managed to get the big corporations on board. kudos.
The Who were probably the originators of the idea, with their '...sell out' album back in the 60s, but they only had fake ads on their album.
I'm actually surprised more bands don't do it, considering the amount of corporate sponsorship you see at most gigs and music events nowadays (red bull, vodafone, export gold). How different is advertising on your album to advertising at your gig?
// How different is advertising on your ...
// How different is advertising on your album to advertising at your gig?
the difference is that the advertising on the album survives a lot longer - unless it's a flyer, which can be thrown away as Foaf and Stefan said. Advertising at a gig: I appreciate that it's sometimes an achievement for a band to get sponsorship; as for how acceptable it is, it comes down to what the weather's like a lot of the time
Andrew Eldritch and Tony James teaming ...
Andrew Eldritch and Tony James teaming up caused more than a few tears before bedtime.
non-specific product placement is rife ...
non-specific product placement is rife in music videos and songs. Listen to elemenop for instance or watch some of their videos and it's clear they are endorsing a whole way of being, looking, acting, which more or less points kids to St Luke's mall, coke or skate shop apparell 101.
And then there's subliminal advertising, the use of obscure, buried or very discrete advertising messages, which I'm convinced the Black Seeds are purveyors of, which probably explains why the lyrical content of their songs is so banal, it works as support to the adverts
here's an answer from a musician I ...
here's an answer from a musician I have a lot lot of respect for, Isaac Brock from Modest Mouse.
Q: Was licensing your songs to commercials a tough decision?
IB: Figuring out ways to pay the rent isn't really a tough decision. Around the time we did the beer commercial and the shoe commercial, I thought, "Am I compromising my music by doing this?" And I think not. I like keeping the lights on in my house. People who don't have to make their living playing music can bitch about my principles while they spend their parents' money or wash dishes for some asshole. Principles are something that people are a lot better at checking in other people than keeping their own.
Fuckn a. That's a very cool attitude. ...
Fuckn a. That's a very cool attitude. Good on that man...
Weirdly, I'm reminded of the origins ...
Weirdly, I'm reminded of the origins of rugby league. All these people trying to maintain the purity of rugby union as a sport by keeping it amateur were accidentally shafting the impoverished coal miners, who were passionate about the game but couldn't afford to play at the level they wanted to and keep their families alive.
I personally think about it in a manner similar to Hollis. I think there is much greater independence and general "healthiness" in having some other form of paid employment. But in practice I think a bunch of wider things to do with employment, working conditions, living conditions and so on would need to be addressed for that to always be practical...
Actually some of it's dependent on what you expect to do with your music too, because that will dictate some of your time commitments.
Um, I guess what I was trying to say is ...
Um, I guess what I was trying to say is that I avoid connections with products etc. as much as I can, but it's not the kind of thing I get upset about other people delving into. Well, I do, if the product/company is something I disapprove of, but I think that's another issue from whether it should ever be done. It's more akin to if an act I like hooks up with another act I think suck, or signs to a label I know to be assholes.
That's the thing, it's basically down ...
That's the thing, it's basically down to the individual or band to decide whether they wish to align themselves with companies.
I do have to admit, I find aligning yourself with a bank is pretty horrible, but I'm sure they have a reason... I can't say I particularly like Op Shop's music anyway, so it doesn't worry me.
In the case of having songs in advertising, it's a double edged sword, on the one hand you're getting your music out to a much wider audience. The thing is, most of that wider audience couldn't give a crap anyway...
I can't help but laugh/cringe when those Gregg's ads w/ Goldenhorse warbling away come on. It seems to me the song Spice Islands would've been more appropriate.
At the end of the day though, it's the bands decision. Unless it's not. Then it isn't.
From what I read of the advertising ...
From what I read of the advertising before I threw it in the nearest bin, the ads are an EMI thing. So the artist probably has little input about bnz advertising in their cd. But, I don't see how actually trying to make money from music detracts from it somehow. I know this topic's been covered plenty of times but no matter what a band's philosophies are, commercial realities have to come into play at some point.
// ...the ads are an EMI ...
// ...the ads are an EMI thing.
ahaha! they're shameless, aren't they.
this is the same label that brought us (in conjunction with Air NZ) the infamous Win NZ's most popular band (who are distributed by EMI) a $34000 prize package!
[ external link ]
Heh. That whole thing was such an ...
Heh. That whole thing was such an absolute farce. Still, it ended up doing some good - at least for blindspott anyway.
It got Blindspott out of the country ...
It got Blindspott out of the country for a short amount of time, if that's what you mean ...
I think the flyer an entry form or ...
I think the flyer an entry form or promotion for a competition to win a $10,000 student bank loan with the BNZ. And it is run over several albums....you buy one of the albums and go into the draw
So it is a label thing then....
So it is a label thing then.
Hey I think if you all actually read ...
Hey I think if you all actually read the flyer before you chuck it away....it is a promotion that runs across 10 albums that the record company are promoting over NZ Music Month...It is called Golden Kiwis (like the old skool things you used to get before Lotto) It rewards people that buy any of those 10 great local CD's during May by giving them the chance to win $10,000 worth of BNZ cash. Personally, I loved buying a couple of local albums today and knowing that because I purhcased them I was rewarded by being able to go in the draw to win $10,000....I don't think it's a sell out I think its a good way of promoting yours above the others that are in the market place.
and you know the worst thing about ...
and you know the worst thing about it??THERES A FUCKIN AGE LIMIT!!!!nobody over 29 need apply from what i remember!!!obviously once u hit 30 u start listening to celine dion and norah jones and start saying "new zealand music??do we really have any bands in n.z.?".