My view to all this is that:
NZ on Air fund for different things - New Recording Artists which I guess is what the majority of you are talking about - now why should a NZ band not get funding when they are unknown just because they have been managed a recording deal with a label? They are still new and should have the same privillages as everyone else. Just remember that you can only obtain this type of funding twice - because after two NRA funding approvals, you will no longer be considered a New Recording Artist. This cost helps towards recording and also a video clip - and if the band is under a record label, it is the label that is normally applying for the funding - and why shouldn't they - they are the ones that are putting everything into these bands at no up front cost to the band. If record labels were not alligable for these types of fundings, do you think NZ would have that many artists at all - where is the money to fund there businesses?
I also note one persons comments on the Kiwi Hit Discs - that she knew quite a number of them - this is not for financial FUNDING, artists that are priviallged to be on these discs are not getting paid or funded for anything - their music is simply sent to every radio station in the country. Now why shouldn't our known artists in NZ get on these discs - they don't qualify any more for the NRA funding because they are already out there! Artists that do get funding, for eg NRA or ALBUM funding, will commonly get on these. The Album funding is available to artists that have shown good airplay on at least 2 songs and potential for more, this is where they would obviously not be entitled to the NRA funding anymore. If the artists are signed to a label, what ever the amount the grant is for, the label must match it! The artists that are under a label have no upfront costs, they record their music and rely on the label to network etc to bring them out and what for the benefits - they labels on the other hand have all the up front costs, commit their time in recording, and in lots of cases, it is a loss to the business in doing so if the public dont like their music. So why shouldn't the record labels be able to apply for the funding if they want to assist these artists in getting out there.
I cant believe some of the comments that are written on this topic - any NZ musician who is new to the music scene should be entitled to the funding regardless of whether they are signed or not. If you don't fully understand the process, don't hate on it.
Oh yeah, and to "a low hum"s comments I totally agree with you - but in your view for costs of cd - there's the ink cost, postage, inserts, cd covers etc that you have still not included in your total cost so can undstand that part of the cost side...however still agree that NZ on Air are doing a pretty good job. Also keep in mind that applications to NZ on Air are taken to the radio stations who recommend their favourites as part of the process - so if the radio doesn't like your music, they'll say no and it'd be unlikely you'd even get to the next stage of the application process. If you have been chosen by NZOA then the radio stations have already heard your song (from their process) and good on you for getting picked. The other purpose of the hit discs, kiwi discs etc is so that the radio stations have a list of the ones that they most commonly have already selected from hundreds each round. Think about how hard there job is too in going through everyones demos they send in hoping for airplay.... I personally believe that the process is good right now, if I was a radio station, I'd wanna know that the artists I play are ones that are in it for the long haul, have a plan on where they're heading, marketing etc, which they can be assured on if they play NZOA's ones, because its part of the process. If that other guy sends in tracks to radio stations (that guy you were responding to) the stations wouldn't know anything about these bands/artists or whether they were even still together.
Just don't be mistaken - NZ on Air do fund new artist and assist with the promo - you see that labels are getting the funds, but those labels are actually bringin out the new NZ artists and putting money into these artists. If you are unsigned, but you are good - u have the same chance as anyone else - u just have to show NZOA that you have a plan and what u'v got etc. Why not try sending in your applications with a short bio and sell yourselves to them - tell them how serious you are and what you have already accomplished - don't just send in the CD with the application form!!
wot i'm sensing here is that radio stations cud involve listeners in the selection process of NZOA New Recording Artists (signed or not) by (i'm running 4 cover now...)...TXT VOTING! Getting potential record buyers involved sumwhere in the shortlisting cud 4 sure make 4 a potentially scary slot but wud definitely b entertaining.
A ? or 2 4 Blakelock Records Ltd :
- do labels who sign a NRA still record despite a funding rejection?
- how many (%) signed NRAs get NZOA funding approved? (and here maybe a comparison shud b made with funding approval % for unsigned NRAs)
Ara Tipu is a new label that has been created because NZ On Air will not promote new and emerging artists. Our research into NZ ON Air has shown clearly that the government agency is a 'feel good' brand association exersize that does little for new and emerging artists trying to break into the music industry. They make selections by track record, instead of talent. They claim to promote NZ music to radio in a way that the radio stations can't play the music if they don't have it, yet they will only associate their brand and logo with artists that already have acheived radio airplay.
Ara Tipu have introduced radio promotion discs for new and emerging artists, similar to NZ ON Air's hit discs; however our selection process has nothing to do with previous track records. Unfortunately we are not government funded; but at least new and emerging artists have a new pathway to growth.
Prudence didn't get funded, because their recordings are VERY bad.
Big Ups for trying to start something like this. But seriously!! what band is going to PAY you to go on one of these discs? A payment of $15 to be made (just to be considered), then another payment of $60 when they are selected for the cd! thats outrageous.
Most decent bands can usually get on an "indie" disc from nzonair, this doesn't cost anything and is serviced to radio and some radio stations actually do playlist from them.
You keep on mentioning prudence getting denied from "hit discs"....shit, i don't know many bands save rungas and dobbyns that get on those discs. Did you try "indie" discs? I still don't think your prudence stuff would get on an indie disk because their is no way any PD worth his lunch money would playlist that material.
I am not trying to shoot your idea down, it is a great one. But you need to think more through it. It seems like you are trying to make it a business, making money off bands who don't get their tracks played on radio, taking advantage of people.
Have you tried creativenz funding? local body funding? any sort of funding?
If you can do this without charging bands, suddenly you have a decent service on your hands. getting radio PDs to take you seriously is another thing.
//because NZ On Air will not promote new and emerging artists.
//They make selections by track record, instead of talent.
//they will only associate their brand and logo with artists that already have acheived radio airplay.
//Our research into NZ ON Air has shown clearly that the government agency is a 'feel good' brand association exersize that does little for new and emerging artists trying to break into the music industry.
by the way, you have no idea what you are talking about and sound like a bitter old man whose pub covers band was denied funding and has given up writing letters to his local newspaper.
NZonair have supported a fuckload of great artists..they keep missing the phoenix foundation, but that is another story.
i think its a great idea so I'm going to take this ugly bag of snakes and lay them out straight for ya.
There are probably 10 stations in the country that would consider playlisting this sort of material. But lets make it 30 for arguments sake.
+ 20 for labels (includes indies eg..antenna, arch hill, capital, fabel, muse, siren, global routes, intergalactic, kog, king, moko, round trip, wildside, flying nun etc.... and the majors sony, bmg, emi etc...)
+20 for mags and media. Kinda pointless sending a compilation of 18 tracks meant for radio for review...nobody is going to review..but for arguments sake.
so you've got 70 discs...add say 1 per band, another 20..then round it up to 100.
so you've got 100 cds.
buy 100 cd-rs. Burn them and then label them. $75. + postage $90 (100 cds at .90c)
total $160 per disc. do this quarterly (like nzoa) thats only $640 per year, not the $1350 you are trying to get EACH disc.
If i was setting up a business and it was only going to cost me $700 in a year and a cheap website that i made myself...i would be stoked.
I would say that if you did this for a year, there would be someway that you could find a way to make money, if not...after doing for a year, I'm sure someone would come to your aid with funding.
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy metal or anything with explicit lyrics. We will not promote Christian bands where content is unscriptural. Instrumental trance music will not be promoted, yet a classical instrumental will be. //
what about pop-punk like 48 may?
the next good charlotte?
...
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy metal or anything with explicit lyrics. We will not promote Christian bands where content is unscriptural. Instrumental trance music will not be promoted, yet a classical instrumental will be. //
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy metal or anything with explicit lyrics. We will not promote Christian bands where content is unscriptural. Instrumental trance music will not be promoted, yet a classical instrumental will be. //
*Bitchslaps Ara Tipu Records for there insolence*
fools whachooz got against heavy metal?
if i where to set up an independant label i would refuse to promote Indecently Clad young Ladies performing noise which sounds like a cucumber being shoved up there you-know-where, Rap, Pop Music, Dance Pop, in fact anything created with ONLY a pre-programmed peice of cheap computer software and lip-synching over-dubs will not be accepted. Only Real bands with Real Instruments and Real talent will be allowed to join.
//by the way, you have no idea what you are talking about and sound like a bitter old man whose pub covers band was denied funding and has given up writing letters to his local newspaper.
nothing wrong with that,
we need more covers bands featuring soulful bitter old men
Why don't they already have a well oiled rage behind them.Do the N.Z.on Air team chose the unsigned.
Looking at Kiwi hit disc 63 there are 16 tracks 8 I recognise as being signed to labels major's.Goodshirt,Fur Patrol,King Kapisi ,Golden Horse,Nathen Heines,Bic Runga,Eight,PanAm,why?
Shouldn't the public purse be used by N.Z.on Air to help kiwi artists not signed.Not pore money into the private sector.Maybe they should look at what they are supporting and have faith and the instinct to try out new initiatives and go out on the limb.
so you're saying of 16 bands on NZ On Air's most commercially orientated radio disc, a startling 50% are 'signed' to major labels. I'd say that was indicative of the fact that half the time, NZ On Air are willing to give the indies a go.
And, on top of that, as far as I'm aware of the behind-the-scenes dealings, Goodshirt (Cement Records) and Goldenhorse (Siren Records) only have distribution deals with major label partners, so are technically still indie. Likewise FMR (King Kapisi, PanAm) are not usually lumped in with the other majors (ie. massive multi-national conglomerates), being, historically, a mostly Australasian business.
// Not pore money into the private sector.
surely all bands, on any label, indie or major are private sector?
// Maybe they should look at what they are supporting and
// have faith and the instinct to try out new initiatives and go out on the limb.
are you aware of the new recording schemes and indie hit discs?
this thread also deals with some of the NZOA major v. indie funding arguments...
OMFG I LOVE YOU FALTER!!!! You are such good musicians you play such kwl music i love you!!! Do you have a cd out? if you do where would I be able to find it and buy it? plz tell me coz I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!!!
// Ara Tipu is a new label that has been created because NZ On Air will not promote new and emerging artists. Our research into NZ ON Air has shown clearly that the government agency is a 'feel good' brand association exersize that does little for new and emerging artists trying to break into the music industry. They make selections by track record, instead of talent. They claim to promote NZ music to radio in a way that the radio stations can't play the music if they don't have it, yet they will only associate their brand and logo with artists that already have acheived radio airplay.
Ara Tipu have introduced radio promotion discs for new and emerging artists, similar to NZ ON Air's hit discs; however our selection process has nothing to do with previous track records. Unfortunately we are not government funded; but at least new and emerging artists have a new pathway to growth.
Wow I have just been to your web site and I have to say it Rocks! The only thing that conerns me about applying is that in one of my original songs I sing the line "Do you like it dirty? If so slap it on in!" Does this mean that I cannot be on one of your dics? I could change the line to "I am not a clean boy but how about we make back entrance love"
Thoughts please.
Even if they have the record deal with the big guns, they still have to owe a lotta money to the company.
Nz on Air is gr*, cos it gives them a big boost up, financially, and they give the band more airtime on tv & radio, which is wot they need to be successful. Rock on NZmusic!!!
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My view to all this is
My view to all this is that:
NZ on Air fund for different things - New Recording Artists which I guess is what the majority of you are talking about - now why should a NZ band not get funding when they are unknown just because they have been managed a recording deal with a label? They are still new and should have the same privillages as everyone else. Just remember that you can only obtain this type of funding twice - because after two NRA funding approvals, you will no longer be considered a New Recording Artist. This cost helps towards recording and also a video clip - and if the band is under a record label, it is the label that is normally applying for the funding - and why shouldn't they - they are the ones that are putting everything into these bands at no up front cost to the band. If record labels were not alligable for these types of fundings, do you think NZ would have that many artists at all - where is the money to fund there businesses?
I also note one persons comments on the Kiwi Hit Discs - that she knew quite a number of them - this is not for financial FUNDING, artists that are priviallged to be on these discs are not getting paid or funded for anything - their music is simply sent to every radio station in the country. Now why shouldn't our known artists in NZ get on these discs - they don't qualify any more for the NRA funding because they are already out there! Artists that do get funding, for eg NRA or ALBUM funding, will commonly get on these. The Album funding is available to artists that have shown good airplay on at least 2 songs and potential for more, this is where they would obviously not be entitled to the NRA funding anymore. If the artists are signed to a label, what ever the amount the grant is for, the label must match it! The artists that are under a label have no upfront costs, they record their music and rely on the label to network etc to bring them out and what for the benefits - they labels on the other hand have all the up front costs, commit their time in recording, and in lots of cases, it is a loss to the business in doing so if the public dont like their music. So why shouldn't the record labels be able to apply for the funding if they want to assist these artists in getting out there.
I cant believe some of the comments that are written on this topic - any NZ musician who is new to the music scene should be entitled to the funding regardless of whether they are signed or not. If you don't fully understand the process, don't hate on it.
Oh yeah, and to "a low hum"s comments I totally agree with you - but in your view for costs of cd - there's the ink cost, postage, inserts, cd covers etc that you have still not included in your total cost so can undstand that part of the cost side...however still agree that NZ on Air are doing a pretty good job. Also keep in mind that applications to NZ on Air are taken to the radio stations who recommend their favourites as part of the process - so if the radio doesn't like your music, they'll say no and it'd be unlikely you'd even get to the next stage of the application process. If you have been chosen by NZOA then the radio stations have already heard your song (from their process) and good on you for getting picked. The other purpose of the hit discs, kiwi discs etc is so that the radio stations have a list of the ones that they most commonly have already selected from hundreds each round. Think about how hard there job is too in going through everyones demos they send in hoping for airplay.... I personally believe that the process is good right now, if I was a radio station, I'd wanna know that the artists I play are ones that are in it for the long haul, have a plan on where they're heading, marketing etc, which they can be assured on if they play NZOA's ones, because its part of the process. If that other guy sends in tracks to radio stations (that guy you were responding to) the stations wouldn't know anything about these bands/artists or whether they were even still together.
Just don't be mistaken - NZ on Air do fund new artist and assist with the promo - you see that labels are getting the funds, but those labels are actually bringin out the new NZ artists and putting money into these artists. If you are unsigned, but you are good - u have the same chance as anyone else - u just have to show NZOA that you have a plan and what u'v got etc. Why not try sending in your applications with a short bio and sell yourselves to them - tell them how serious you are and what you have already accomplished - don't just send in the CD with the application form!!
Blakelock Records Ltd
~We Know Music & Make It Known~
Ph: (09)AND-ROCK
www.blakelock-recording-studio.com
wot i'm sensing here is that
wot i'm sensing here is that radio stations cud involve listeners in the selection process of NZOA New Recording Artists (signed or not) by (i'm running 4 cover now...)...TXT VOTING! Getting potential record buyers involved sumwhere in the shortlisting cud 4 sure make 4 a potentially scary slot but wud definitely b entertaining.
A ? or 2 4 Blakelock Records Ltd :
- do labels who sign a NRA still record despite a funding rejection?
- how many (%) signed NRAs get NZOA funding approved? (and here maybe a comparison shud b made with funding approval % for unsigned NRAs)
if the band is signed to a major label, ...
if the band is signed to a major label, then they're doin pretty fkn well already. i dont rkn they would need funding from NZ On Air.
Oh... I was under the impression that ...
Oh... I was under the impression that NZonair was not so secretly controlled by these major record labels?
Ara Tipu is a new label that has been ...
Ara Tipu is a new label that has been created because NZ On Air will not promote new and emerging artists. Our research into NZ ON Air has shown clearly that the government agency is a 'feel good' brand association exersize that does little for new and emerging artists trying to break into the music industry. They make selections by track record, instead of talent. They claim to promote NZ music to radio in a way that the radio stations can't play the music if they don't have it, yet they will only associate their brand and logo with artists that already have acheived radio airplay.
Ara Tipu have introduced radio promotion discs for new and emerging artists, similar to NZ ON Air's hit discs; however our selection process has nothing to do with previous track records. Unfortunately we are not government funded; but at least new and emerging artists have a new pathway to growth.
[ http://www.aratipu.co.nz ]
Prudence didn't get funded, because ...
Prudence didn't get funded, because their recordings are VERY bad.
Big Ups for trying to start something like this. But seriously!! what band is going to PAY you to go on one of these discs? A payment of $15 to be made (just to be considered), then another payment of $60 when they are selected for the cd! thats outrageous.
Most decent bands can usually get on an "indie" disc from nzonair, this doesn't cost anything and is serviced to radio and some radio stations actually do playlist from them.
You keep on mentioning prudence getting denied from "hit discs"....shit, i don't know many bands save rungas and dobbyns that get on those discs. Did you try "indie" discs? I still don't think your prudence stuff would get on an indie disk because their is no way any PD worth his lunch money would playlist that material.
I am not trying to shoot your idea down, it is a great one. But you need to think more through it. It seems like you are trying to make it a business, making money off bands who don't get their tracks played on radio, taking advantage of people.
Have you tried creativenz funding? local body funding? any sort of funding?
If you can do this without charging bands, suddenly you have a decent service on your hands. getting radio PDs to take you seriously is another thing.
//because NZ On Air will not promote ...
//because NZ On Air will not promote new and emerging artists.
//They make selections by track record, instead of talent.
//they will only associate their brand and logo with artists that already have acheived radio airplay.
//Our research into NZ ON Air has shown clearly that the government agency is a 'feel good' brand association exersize that does little for new and emerging artists trying to break into the music industry.
by the way, you have no idea what you are talking about and sound like a bitter old man whose pub covers band was denied funding and has given up writing letters to his local newspaper.
NZonair have supported a fuckload of great artists..they keep missing the phoenix foundation, but that is another story.
i think its a great idea so I'm going ...
i think its a great idea so I'm going to take this ugly bag of snakes and lay them out straight for ya.
There are probably 10 stations in the country that would consider playlisting this sort of material. But lets make it 30 for arguments sake.
+ 20 for labels (includes indies eg..antenna, arch hill, capital, fabel, muse, siren, global routes, intergalactic, kog, king, moko, round trip, wildside, flying nun etc.... and the majors sony, bmg, emi etc...)
+20 for mags and media. Kinda pointless sending a compilation of 18 tracks meant for radio for review...nobody is going to review..but for arguments sake.
so you've got 70 discs...add say 1 per band, another 20..then round it up to 100.
so you've got 100 cds.
buy 100 cd-rs. Burn them and then label them. $75. + postage $90 (100 cds at .90c)
total $160 per disc. do this quarterly (like nzoa) thats only $640 per year, not the $1350 you are trying to get EACH disc.
If i was setting up a business and it was only going to cost me $700 in a year and a cheap website that i made myself...i would be stoked.
I would say that if you did this for a year, there would be someway that you could find a way to make money, if not...after doing for a year, I'm sure someone would come to your aid with funding.
put your money where your mouth is.
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy ...
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy metal or anything with explicit lyrics. We will not promote Christian bands where content is unscriptural. Instrumental trance music will not be promoted, yet a classical instrumental will be. //
what about pop-punk like 48 may?
the next good charlotte?
...
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy ...
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy metal or anything with explicit lyrics. We will not promote Christian bands where content is unscriptural. Instrumental trance music will not be promoted, yet a classical instrumental will be. //
Ha ha! NZOA is more inclusive than Ara Tipu!
// Instrumental trance music will not ...
// Instrumental trance music will not be promoted, yet a classical instrumental will be.
what about "classical trance"?...cause i got a certain "who painted the moon black" cover, that would go excellent on these discs.
[ http://www.blink.net.nz/fbb/mp3.html ]
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy ...
//Ara Tipu will not promote punk, heavy metal or anything with explicit lyrics. We will not promote Christian bands where content is unscriptural. Instrumental trance music will not be promoted, yet a classical instrumental will be. //
*Bitchslaps Ara Tipu Records for there insolence*
fools whachooz got against heavy metal?
if i where to set up an independant label i would refuse to promote Indecently Clad young Ladies performing noise which sounds like a cucumber being shoved up there you-know-where, Rap, Pop Music, Dance Pop, in fact anything created with ONLY a pre-programmed peice of cheap computer software and lip-synching over-dubs will not be accepted. Only Real bands with Real Instruments and Real talent will be allowed to join.
//by the way, you have no idea what you ...
//by the way, you have no idea what you are talking about and sound like a bitter old man whose pub covers band was denied funding and has given up writing letters to his local newspaper.
nothing wrong with that,
we need more covers bands featuring soulful bitter old men
Why don't they already have a well ...
Why don't they already have a well oiled rage behind them.Do the N.Z.on Air team chose the unsigned.
Looking at Kiwi hit disc 63 there are 16 tracks 8 I recognise as being signed to labels major's.Goodshirt,Fur Patrol,King Kapisi ,Golden Horse,Nathen Heines,Bic Runga,Eight,PanAm,why?
Shouldn't the public purse be used by N.Z.on Air to help kiwi artists not signed.Not pore money into the private sector.Maybe they should look at what they are supporting and have faith and the instinct to try out new initiatives and go out on the limb.
so you're saying of 16 bands on NZ On ...
so you're saying of 16 bands on NZ On Air's most commercially orientated radio disc, a startling 50% are 'signed' to major labels. I'd say that was indicative of the fact that half the time, NZ On Air are willing to give the indies a go.
And, on top of that, as far as I'm aware of the behind-the-scenes dealings, Goodshirt (Cement Records) and Goldenhorse (Siren Records) only have distribution deals with major label partners, so are technically still indie. Likewise FMR (King Kapisi, PanAm) are not usually lumped in with the other majors (ie. massive multi-national conglomerates), being, historically, a mostly Australasian business.
// Not pore money into the private sector.
surely all bands, on any label, indie or major are private sector?
// Maybe they should look at what they are supporting and
// have faith and the instinct to try out new initiatives and go out on the limb.
are you aware of the new recording schemes and indie hit discs?
this thread also deals with some of the NZOA major v. indie funding arguments...
[ external link ]
//are you aware of the new recording ...
//are you aware of the new recording schemes and indie hit discs?//
hahah noizy
beat me to it
Sorry bout the mistakes.While we boast ...
Sorry bout the mistakes.While we boast a high education system,I missed out.
What other grants could a band with a ...
What other grants could a band with a demo CD apply for and who with?
[ http://www.slippingtongue.tk ]
NZ Ona ir funding kiwi bands on major ...
NZ Ona ir funding kiwi bands on major labels = PC Gone mad.
//NZ Ona ir Oops i mean NZ On Air....
//NZ Ona ir
Oops i mean NZ On Air.
OMFG I LOVE YOU FALTER!!!! You are such ...
OMFG I LOVE YOU FALTER!!!! You are such good musicians you play such kwl music i love you!!! Do you have a cd out? if you do where would I be able to find it and buy it? plz tell me coz I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!!!
would this be a question you would put ...
would this be a question you would put on the Falter forum, they then may actually reply/answer.
// Ara Tipu is a new label that has ...
// Ara Tipu is a new label that has been created because NZ On Air will not promote new and emerging artists. Our research into NZ ON Air has shown clearly that the government agency is a 'feel good' brand association exersize that does little for new and emerging artists trying to break into the music industry. They make selections by track record, instead of talent. They claim to promote NZ music to radio in a way that the radio stations can't play the music if they don't have it, yet they will only associate their brand and logo with artists that already have acheived radio airplay.
Ara Tipu have introduced radio promotion discs for new and emerging artists, similar to NZ ON Air's hit discs; however our selection process has nothing to do with previous track records. Unfortunately we are not government funded; but at least new and emerging artists have a new pathway to growth.
Wow I have just been to your web site and I have to say it Rocks! The only thing that conerns me about applying is that in one of my original songs I sing the line "Do you like it dirty? If so slap it on in!" Does this mean that I cannot be on one of your dics? I could change the line to "I am not a clean boy but how about we make back entrance love"
Thoughts please.
Even if they have the record deal with ...
Even if they have the record deal with the big guns, they still have to owe a lotta money to the company.
Nz on Air is gr*, cos it gives them a big boost up, financially, and they give the band more airtime on tv & radio, which is wot they need to be successful. Rock on NZmusic!!!