well its good that our talent is going to the world market, but i dont think the Govt. should be aiding them...Govt. funding of band is exactly what Joseph Stalin or Mao Tse Tung would have done. Keep it real but Keep PC and red tape out of a bands success.
I think it's Ireland that gets used as an example of govt-aided music, stuff like U2. I could have my facts wrong but I don't think there's anything at all wrong with some assistance. I know they're occasionally seen as dirty words but CreativeNZ and NZonAir funding clearly originates at govt level.
I think its about time NZ Music wakened up and smelt the coffee. I am a kiwi producer living and working in London , an ex studio owner and now a london studio owner. NZ music does not have the hype that it belives it has in the UK, to be honest the scene here is dire as it is around the rest of the world right now, unfortuantly for the last twenty years we NZ musicians and the like have been told the world loves us when frankly they dont know much about NZ music at all bar the odd one or two acts, in the UK its the labels that make the music not the government and right now even that is thin on the ground, if NZ music wants to survive and sell in the scene of the big time then NZ labels have to spend a shit load more money to compete, and supply product that is constintly of an international standard, not music made with $5000 NZ on air grants when an average single in the UK has approx $100K spent on it for starters, followed by massive promotion in a declining market, it also helps to spend long periods of time int he country you are trying to sell into and as the head of MTV europe has clearly stated, if you dont live here it aint gonna be played on the local box so time to waken up to reality and be aware that in the larger parts of the industry there aint a bunch of A&R chiefs crying out for NZ music, it jsut aint happening and so if you want to succeed get on a plain and start touring, working hard and then maybe then you might jsut get noticed by an industry that is slowly dissolving around the world, sorry guys i love nz music but just dont believe the media hype, it aint true
Londonkiwi sounds bitter and twisted - if he actually stayed in this country instead of running off to the UK he may in fact be aware that Kiwi muscians dont give a SHIT about so called hype - I am a singer in a band and I live on the planet Earth, I never for a second thought about what country I come from - my only question is "Am I good enough"? Can I sell my music in other countries - I have sent lots of stuff over seas and I have had really good feedback but none of the A @ R managers give a shit which country I was born in - and I certainly dont think we all need to move to the UK to suceed in our carreers - that statement that the MTV guy made is quite simply out dated - I have been told by producers in the UK and in USA if somebody loves your band - dont you dare leave this country, let them come to you!! I will certainly tour overseas but I will never re locate - I love this country and I am a good muscicain regardless of what country I come from - you should have stayed in NZ - your views are so five years ago - you have NO idea what is happening in the NZ music Industry!
Hell yes..but of course you've got to gain some status on your own before you can meet the criteria to be fully funded..oh hell yes..that would be great providing that you have fans approval..FAIR? I think.
from the UK a trickle effect is starting to snowball into "oh, New Zaland, i didn't know anyhting about it except its really pretty, but now i understand there is a great cultural depth to it, i really am interested in going".
Sophie Ellis Bextor said this also.
so, if the cultural ambassadors for NZ can turn that into something good collectively, then yes they should be supported, but also made to pay it back.
A perspective from New York, the NZ govt. paid out quite a lot last year to get 4 groups to Central Park Summerstage (weekend free music/dance series) and it was a great party for all the ex-pat Kiwis there. Not sure how much exposure to the rest of the NY scene the bands got ... there were very few non-NZers there. (I believe there was a showcase later in the week, so maybe the taxpayer got their moneys worth after all, otherwise it would seem to be a bit of a waste. Nice gesture to the NZ population here, though!).
Question is, how did the Datsuns do it? They had/have a big following here ... last summer everyone who had ever heard a band live had heard of the Datsuns.
It is true that many are not going to have a huge career overseas. But some help would be great.
Here in Aussie for example (Qld-so with currently not even as much exposure to NZ Music as MEL & SYD get) it'd be great if NZ bands could be more promoted & readily accessable to the general public!! The ones that do get heard here often become popular, so it seems a waste not to tap into that.
I was at a shopping centre in the far corner of the Gold Coast one day & they were playing Moizna through the PA. I just about cheered to at acctually hear NZ music publicly here, it'd be great to get NZ Music that exposure more often.
The music business is a tough one, and the only way to get respect is to work for it. We've already seen what too many hand-outs can do to certain groups of people - lets not let that happen to NZ Music! Support is fine, but Band have to 'make it' on thier own or not at all. Plus, you have to realise that the government doesn't really get that much back from these kind of investments, short of a warm - fuzzy feeling. Let the record companies sink thier money into fresh talent!
If the government were to fund nz music even more so they would have to decide which bands to fund.
How can you tell which bands are going to make it overseas and need help and which bands just suck?
Look at stereogram they spent heaps of cash in the US and it hasnt worked for them.
Lucifer Sam had it right that Stalin would have funded music if he were smart enough to still be alive today. In relity it would seem like a real waste of money if the govt were to pay for exposure to a lot of bands. Especially the Hip Hop rubbishy ones. Would Scribe stand a chance outside this country? Not even in a cats arse hole! 91ZM made him famous! It had nothing to do with talent. It was pure saturation in the kiddies market. Imagine if the govt were to fund these people? it would be a laughing stock like when they funded for a hip hop tour around the States!?!
But if they were to fund bands for overseas exposure, it should be on the condition that the govt would receive a royalty once the band earned a certain amount of money. I'm not an accountant but that sounds like more of an investment than a loan or just a give-away.
Otherwise it would just go down the hole like Student Loan Debt.
ps London Kiwi bores and depresses me.
Now I'm no Muso but Living in London I know that if NZ artists are to get off the shores of our great land and make an impact we (KIWIS) should bloody well help them! If that means we subsidise through the GOV then so be it I want More Kiwis making a name internationally 'cause they have the skill just not the fan base to promote thier wares. Our artists are at a huge disadvantage and need $$$ to get onto the global scale or we can remain tight fisted ******* and fade into the background its up to US!
Thats definitely true. While I was overseas for 8 monthsI realised the true crap out there on the international market and how much we kiwis need to get out there and play. It is easier said than done though and if we spend money on some of the crap we do surely there is enough for our talented bunch of musicians.
The thing is, will they get a return on there investment? Sure some kiwi artists are showing promise (betchadupa suck) but spending our tax dollars and selling them overseas may just mean we lose them to Australia.
though i feel bands should ultimately be in charge of spreading themselves overseas, some form of government support is definately nice- and i mean more then shitty nz on air grants, and shows that simply delve only in the top layer of nz music. we need a decent social system setup to support our artists at home to develop their music (not necessarily make a living off it), similar to many european countries like sweden.
and then if they discover a target market over seas they can address that themselves.
though if any band in new zealand wants to actually make money, they either have to become a covers band, or get the fuck outta this country of ours- our population just isn't large enough to sustain 'artists'
....And that wouldn't be the end of the world for NZ to lose those artists temporarily while they had a crack at "making it". Look at Neil Finn - he lives in Mt Eden now. Having spent his twenties and thirties enjoying a successful career off-shore, he has returned to NZ with a wealth of experience which he is sharing with NZ artists at the other end, thinking about making the break from NZ in search of international
recognition. a friend of mine just finished doing some recordings with him at roundhead studios not long ago (well, possibly not "with" Neil, but in his studio).
The New Zealand Government doesnt really have a lot of money to throw around, they're probably spending as much as they can afford to through the millions given to NZOA.
Realistically speaking bands will probably have to get sponsorship from elsewhere as the government is unlikely to cough up any more cash.
Gotta say that "Forever now" are sounding gooood! Just heard them in Darwin and man u NZ'er's put out some good shit!! I believe that two of them are ex "Blindspott" but this shit is awesome with a capital O!!!! They tell me they are laying some tracks soon! Can't wait!!! Anyone seen them live yet cos they raawwkkkk!!!!!
I believe that Gareth is looking at staying here in the land of Oz......You poor fucken kiwi's....you are loosing some good shit!!!!!He says to say hi to the Westies!!!!!
why not promote the kiwi acts that rock our country. there's plenty of great music out there in the world, but unfortunately the spinn doctors and advertising campaigners for the big labels get to dictate what 90% of the western world hear.
we're spending loads on advertising our country as pure, why not show how culturally progressive our artists are as well.
look what bob's done for jamaca, or U2 for Ireland, Bjork for Iceland, Elvis the states and the Beatles for England.
it's good for our identity and it gives struggling nz artists the potential to sell to more than our tiny market
Sounds like a lot of shit to me. A lot of one sided opinions made by self satisfying egomaniacs. A lot of the bands in nz that have made it have made do with their so called measley $5000 grants. At the end of the day, you have to get off your ass and do it, expect nothing in the way of handouts and work hard for it. I guess I would say its alot more gratifying getting paid for what you've earnt.....
// A lot of the bands in nz that have made it have made do with their so called measley $5000 grants. At the end of the day, you have to get off your ass and do it, expect nothing in the way of handouts and work hard for it.
Ok so NZ on air $5000 grant the band has worked hard and earnt it, big$$ to go to, say SXSW they're a bunch of useless loafers getting a free ride??
I can see a bit of a self defeating argument there.
Personally I'm all for it but would like to see govt doing more for the live scene here as well. The acceptable sound levels in Auckland need to be raised, its too easy for the nimbys to put a stop to a live venue in Auckland.
I also think a shitload of licensing trust money should be put into having decent sized all ages shows.
Rant over, got nothing much to say on this one really. Of course the govt should send nz music to the world, at least it deserves as much of a look in as our athletes.
Right, this discussion is so limp it makes me mad.
Musicians involved in the musical genres concerned with this website are driven by an egocentric desire to write and record their music, and a desire to be loved, recognised and payed for their work.
Musicians (like any other humans) base their own success on the current model of success - the current global model in its most crude sense still boils down to: Enjoying what they are making, being loved for it, being recognisd for it and being payed for it.
So, the drive of a musician centres around four things:
1. Enjoying and being surprised about the music they can make.
2. Accepting the love they are given for this work.
3. Accepting the recognition this work gives them.
4. Accepting whatever money turns up as a result of their work.
Of course there are a minority of musicians that make music independantly of external forces and a small portion of these musicians may make brilliant work and an even smaller portion of these musicians may be recognised and even payed for their brilliant work. A very small portion. So if you are one of these musicians (which you aren't if you at a music website) stop reading.
For the majority of musicians then, the listed four driving factors of being a musician are always at play, all factors intermodulating . The goal of a stable and prolific artist is to get these driving factors balanced, an impossible task, but denying any of them, or pushing any of them too hard, will lead to less stability and less musical output. One could argue that 'unstable and reduced musical output' might be the recipe for an artists best work, and unfortuntly for the musician, this might be true.
Almost all musicans want music making, love of their work, recognition and money in equal quantites. Musicians that say 'I just want to make my limited interest music and sell it to the limited audience that wants to buy it' are lying. They actually want to bring it to everyone on the planet, and the great thing is that the music market doesn't care about overtly humble artists that only want to sell it to a few people because the music market is random and it can sell anything if the time is right. Musicians will happily exchange their small audience for a big one.
So, musicians must be honest from the outset about their 'secret' drive for mass recognition. This doesn't mean modifying your music to match a percieved commercial sound, it simply means being honest about the desire for one's music (whatever it sounds like) to reach a large audience. Put into simple rock language; 'I'm going to rock every person on the whole fuckin' planet with my shit' - and so you should.
The internet has provided the facilty to narrow our audience to 'just the people who want it'. This is sad because it puts one driving factor out of whack - '3. Accepting the recognition this work gives them' suddenly becomes severly limited and without surprises.
Mr 'I've got a studio in the UK smarty pants' from this forum is wrong. He obviously adheres to ridgid set of musical and production values, but history has proved him wrong and will keep proving him wrong. Interesting and original pop(ular) music, from any part of the world, regardless of it's technical source and original recording budget, has just as much chance of suceeding in the market as anything else. And his blithering MTV arguement is nonsense, as if any idea of this kind is set in stone - all this from a nation that created two number ones out of ringtones, what was their original recording budget I wonder? Mr studio man's objective seems to be to set out that he has a wider view of the market because of his geographical position, which is plainly silly.
One of the interesting things about the music market is that it is not possible to finance an artist and have a predictable outcome of the investment.
Even the most manufactured pop music has vague economic outcomes, and for the artist, if commercial sucess briefly forfills the '4. Accepting whatever money turns up as a result of their work' factor, it generally only creates a large deficit in the '1. Enjoying and being surprised about the music they can make' factor.
It may initially satisfy the '3. Accepting the recognition this work gives them' factor, but it can also eventually irrepairably erode this as one well.
Would the Government be ill-advised to invest taxpayers money into something so fickle? Probably.
Current evidence mostly supports this answer based on the Government's interventions thus far. It doesn't mean they shouldn't keep trying though I guess.
"...Of course the govt should send nz music to the world, at least it deserves as much of a look in as our athletes."
This in my opinion is a bloody good point. Does anybody know if they still release the NZ On Air hit disks. I found these were a great way ( and cheap ) to expose new, and sometimes old bands.
Even simple 3 song demos work. Look at 'The Checks' for example, R.E.M's management stumbled across their demo while on tour in europe and played it over and over in their tour bus, then thought hey, lets book these guys to support our N.Z tour.
Maybe NZ music should look at creating a cd along the lines of the old hit disk, for the international market??
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well its good that our talent is going ...
well its good that our talent is going to the world market, but i dont think the Govt. should be aiding them...Govt. funding of band is exactly what Joseph Stalin or Mao Tse Tung would have done. Keep it real but Keep PC and red tape out of a bands success.
I think it's Ireland that gets used as ...
I think it's Ireland that gets used as an example of govt-aided music, stuff like U2. I could have my facts wrong but I don't think there's anything at all wrong with some assistance. I know they're occasionally seen as dirty words but CreativeNZ and NZonAir funding clearly originates at govt level.
I think its about time NZ Music wakened ...
I think its about time NZ Music wakened up and smelt the coffee. I am a kiwi producer living and working in London , an ex studio owner and now a london studio owner. NZ music does not have the hype that it belives it has in the UK, to be honest the scene here is dire as it is around the rest of the world right now, unfortuantly for the last twenty years we NZ musicians and the like have been told the world loves us when frankly they dont know much about NZ music at all bar the odd one or two acts, in the UK its the labels that make the music not the government and right now even that is thin on the ground, if NZ music wants to survive and sell in the scene of the big time then NZ labels have to spend a shit load more money to compete, and supply product that is constintly of an international standard, not music made with $5000 NZ on air grants when an average single in the UK has approx $100K spent on it for starters, followed by massive promotion in a declining market, it also helps to spend long periods of time int he country you are trying to sell into and as the head of MTV europe has clearly stated, if you dont live here it aint gonna be played on the local box so time to waken up to reality and be aware that in the larger parts of the industry there aint a bunch of A&R chiefs crying out for NZ music, it jsut aint happening and so if you want to succeed get on a plain and start touring, working hard and then maybe then you might jsut get noticed by an industry that is slowly dissolving around the world, sorry guys i love nz music but just dont believe the media hype, it aint true
[ http://wwww ]
Londonkiwi sounds bitter and twisted - ...
Londonkiwi sounds bitter and twisted - if he actually stayed in this country instead of running off to the UK he may in fact be aware that Kiwi muscians dont give a SHIT about so called hype - I am a singer in a band and I live on the planet Earth, I never for a second thought about what country I come from - my only question is "Am I good enough"? Can I sell my music in other countries - I have sent lots of stuff over seas and I have had really good feedback but none of the A @ R managers give a shit which country I was born in - and I certainly dont think we all need to move to the UK to suceed in our carreers - that statement that the MTV guy made is quite simply out dated - I have been told by producers in the UK and in USA if somebody loves your band - dont you dare leave this country, let them come to you!! I will certainly tour overseas but I will never re locate - I love this country and I am a good muscicain regardless of what country I come from - you should have stayed in NZ - your views are so five years ago - you have NO idea what is happening in the NZ music Industry!
brent hansen is bang on the money...
brent hansen is bang on the money
Hell yes..but of course you've got to ...
Hell yes..but of course you've got to gain some status on your own before you can meet the criteria to be fully funded..oh hell yes..that would be great providing that you have fans approval..FAIR? I think.
from the UK a trickle effect is ...
from the UK a trickle effect is starting to snowball into "oh, New Zaland, i didn't know anyhting about it except its really pretty, but now i understand there is a great cultural depth to it, i really am interested in going".
Sophie Ellis Bextor said this also.
so, if the cultural ambassadors for NZ can turn that into something good collectively, then yes they should be supported, but also made to pay it back.
agreed. positive comment. good....
agreed. positive comment. good.
A perspective from New York, the NZ ...
A perspective from New York, the NZ govt. paid out quite a lot last year to get 4 groups to Central Park Summerstage (weekend free music/dance series) and it was a great party for all the ex-pat Kiwis there. Not sure how much exposure to the rest of the NY scene the bands got ... there were very few non-NZers there. (I believe there was a showcase later in the week, so maybe the taxpayer got their moneys worth after all, otherwise it would seem to be a bit of a waste. Nice gesture to the NZ population here, though!).
Question is, how did the Datsuns do it? They had/have a big following here ... last summer everyone who had ever heard a band live had heard of the Datsuns.
I think you must have been sitting in a ...
I think you must have been sitting in a kiwi corner of the gig, cos from where I was sitting it was american accents all round.
I'm also not sure how much (of any) of the fare was put up by NZ government agencies.
It is true that many are not going to ...
It is true that many are not going to have a huge career overseas. But some help would be great.
Here in Aussie for example (Qld-so with currently not even as much exposure to NZ Music as MEL & SYD get) it'd be great if NZ bands could be more promoted & readily accessable to the general public!! The ones that do get heard here often become popular, so it seems a waste not to tap into that.
I was at a shopping centre in the far corner of the Gold Coast one day & they were playing Moizna through the PA. I just about cheered to at acctually hear NZ music publicly here, it'd be great to get NZ Music that exposure more often.
The music business is a tough one, and ...
The music business is a tough one, and the only way to get respect is to work for it. We've already seen what too many hand-outs can do to certain groups of people - lets not let that happen to NZ Music! Support is fine, but Band have to 'make it' on thier own or not at all. Plus, you have to realise that the government doesn't really get that much back from these kind of investments, short of a warm - fuzzy feeling. Let the record companies sink thier money into fresh talent!
Absolutly - your a very wise person!...
Absolutly - your a very wise person!
If the government were to fund nz music ...
If the government were to fund nz music even more so they would have to decide which bands to fund.
How can you tell which bands are going to make it overseas and need help and which bands just suck?
Look at stereogram they spent heaps of cash in the US and it hasnt worked for them.
It would sure be a better investment ...
It would sure be a better investment than the half a million spent on 'play it strange'.
That is so true. What was it, ukelele ...
That is so true. What was it, ukelele orchestras? BAD idea, Mr Chunn.
Lucifer Sam had it right that Stalin ...
Lucifer Sam had it right that Stalin would have funded music if he were smart enough to still be alive today. In relity it would seem like a real waste of money if the govt were to pay for exposure to a lot of bands. Especially the Hip Hop rubbishy ones. Would Scribe stand a chance outside this country? Not even in a cats arse hole! 91ZM made him famous! It had nothing to do with talent. It was pure saturation in the kiddies market. Imagine if the govt were to fund these people? it would be a laughing stock like when they funded for a hip hop tour around the States!?!
But if they were to fund bands for overseas exposure, it should be on the condition that the govt would receive a royalty once the band earned a certain amount of money. I'm not an accountant but that sounds like more of an investment than a loan or just a give-away.
Otherwise it would just go down the hole like Student Loan Debt.
ps London Kiwi bores and depresses me.
Now I'm no Muso but Living in London I ...
Now I'm no Muso but Living in London I know that if NZ artists are to get off the shores of our great land and make an impact we (KIWIS) should bloody well help them! If that means we subsidise through the GOV then so be it I want More Kiwis making a name internationally 'cause they have the skill just not the fan base to promote thier wares. Our artists are at a huge disadvantage and need $$$ to get onto the global scale or we can remain tight fisted ******* and fade into the background its up to US!
Thats definitely true. While I was ...
Thats definitely true. While I was overseas for 8 monthsI realised the true crap out there on the international market and how much we kiwis need to get out there and play. It is easier said than done though and if we spend money on some of the crap we do surely there is enough for our talented bunch of musicians.
The thing is, will they get a return on ...
The thing is, will they get a return on there investment? Sure some kiwi artists are showing promise (betchadupa suck) but spending our tax dollars and selling them overseas may just mean we lose them to Australia.
though i feel bands should ultimately ...
though i feel bands should ultimately be in charge of spreading themselves overseas, some form of government support is definately nice- and i mean more then shitty nz on air grants, and shows that simply delve only in the top layer of nz music. we need a decent social system setup to support our artists at home to develop their music (not necessarily make a living off it), similar to many european countries like sweden.
and then if they discover a target market over seas they can address that themselves.
though if any band in new zealand wants to actually make money, they either have to become a covers band, or get the fuck outta this country of ours- our population just isn't large enough to sustain 'artists'
....And that wouldn't be the end of ...
....And that wouldn't be the end of the world for NZ to lose those artists temporarily while they had a crack at "making it". Look at Neil Finn - he lives in Mt Eden now. Having spent his twenties and thirties enjoying a successful career off-shore, he has returned to NZ with a wealth of experience which he is sharing with NZ artists at the other end, thinking about making the break from NZ in search of international
recognition. a friend of mine just finished doing some recordings with him at roundhead studios not long ago (well, possibly not "with" Neil, but in his studio).
The New Zealand Government doesnt ...
The New Zealand Government doesnt really have a lot of money to throw around, they're probably spending as much as they can afford to through the millions given to NZOA.
Realistically speaking bands will probably have to get sponsorship from elsewhere as the government is unlikely to cough up any more cash.
Gotta say that "Forever now" are ...
Gotta say that "Forever now" are sounding gooood! Just heard them in Darwin and man u NZ'er's put out some good shit!! I believe that two of them are ex "Blindspott" but this shit is awesome with a capital O!!!! They tell me they are laying some tracks soon! Can't wait!!! Anyone seen them live yet cos they raawwkkkk!!!!!
Yes your Government should pay for shit ...
Yes your Government should pay for shit as sick as this!!!!
Having a beer with Gareth! Yeah ...
Having a beer with Gareth! Yeah brother........
I believe that Gareth is looking at ...
I believe that Gareth is looking at staying here in the land of Oz......You poor fucken kiwi's....you are loosing some good shit!!!!!He says to say hi to the Westies!!!!!
why not promote the kiwi acts that rock ...
why not promote the kiwi acts that rock our country. there's plenty of great music out there in the world, but unfortunately the spinn doctors and advertising campaigners for the big labels get to dictate what 90% of the western world hear.
we're spending loads on advertising our country as pure, why not show how culturally progressive our artists are as well.
look what bob's done for jamaca, or U2 for Ireland, Bjork for Iceland, Elvis the states and the Beatles for England.
it's good for our identity and it gives struggling nz artists the potential to sell to more than our tiny market
Sounds like a lot of shit to me. A lot ...
Sounds like a lot of shit to me. A lot of one sided opinions made by self satisfying egomaniacs. A lot of the bands in nz that have made it have made do with their so called measley $5000 grants. At the end of the day, you have to get off your ass and do it, expect nothing in the way of handouts and work hard for it. I guess I would say its alot more gratifying getting paid for what you've earnt.....
// A lot of the bands in nz that have ...
// A lot of the bands in nz that have made it have made
// do with their so called measley $5000 grants.
A lot? Name six.
// At the end of the day, you have to get off your ass
// and do it, expect nothing in the way of handouts and work hard for it.
No disagreement there, but surely the occasional $5000 leg-up wouldn't go astray?
// A lot of the bands in nz that have ...
// A lot of the bands in nz that have made it have made do with their so called measley $5000 grants. At the end of the day, you have to get off your ass and do it, expect nothing in the way of handouts and work hard for it.
Ok so NZ on air $5000 grant the band has worked hard and earnt it, big$$ to go to, say SXSW they're a bunch of useless loafers getting a free ride??
I can see a bit of a self defeating argument there.
Personally I'm all for it but would like to see govt doing more for the live scene here as well. The acceptable sound levels in Auckland need to be raised, its too easy for the nimbys to put a stop to a live venue in Auckland.
I also think a shitload of licensing trust money should be put into having decent sized all ages shows.
Rant over, got nothing much to say on this one really. Of course the govt should send nz music to the world, at least it deserves as much of a look in as our athletes.
Right, this discussion is so limp it ...
Right, this discussion is so limp it makes me mad.
Musicians involved in the musical genres concerned with this website are driven by an egocentric desire to write and record their music, and a desire to be loved, recognised and payed for their work.
Musicians (like any other humans) base their own success on the current model of success - the current global model in its most crude sense still boils down to: Enjoying what they are making, being loved for it, being recognisd for it and being payed for it.
So, the drive of a musician centres around four things:
1. Enjoying and being surprised about the music they can make.
2. Accepting the love they are given for this work.
3. Accepting the recognition this work gives them.
4. Accepting whatever money turns up as a result of their work.
Of course there are a minority of musicians that make music independantly of external forces and a small portion of these musicians may make brilliant work and an even smaller portion of these musicians may be recognised and even payed for their brilliant work. A very small portion. So if you are one of these musicians (which you aren't if you at a music website) stop reading.
For the majority of musicians then, the listed four driving factors of being a musician are always at play, all factors intermodulating . The goal of a stable and prolific artist is to get these driving factors balanced, an impossible task, but denying any of them, or pushing any of them too hard, will lead to less stability and less musical output. One could argue that 'unstable and reduced musical output' might be the recipe for an artists best work, and unfortuntly for the musician, this might be true.
Almost all musicans want music making, love of their work, recognition and money in equal quantites. Musicians that say 'I just want to make my limited interest music and sell it to the limited audience that wants to buy it' are lying. They actually want to bring it to everyone on the planet, and the great thing is that the music market doesn't care about overtly humble artists that only want to sell it to a few people because the music market is random and it can sell anything if the time is right. Musicians will happily exchange their small audience for a big one.
So, musicians must be honest from the outset about their 'secret' drive for mass recognition. This doesn't mean modifying your music to match a percieved commercial sound, it simply means being honest about the desire for one's music (whatever it sounds like) to reach a large audience. Put into simple rock language; 'I'm going to rock every person on the whole fuckin' planet with my shit' - and so you should.
The internet has provided the facilty to narrow our audience to 'just the people who want it'. This is sad because it puts one driving factor out of whack - '3. Accepting the recognition this work gives them' suddenly becomes severly limited and without surprises.
Mr 'I've got a studio in the UK smarty pants' from this forum is wrong. He obviously adheres to ridgid set of musical and production values, but history has proved him wrong and will keep proving him wrong. Interesting and original pop(ular) music, from any part of the world, regardless of it's technical source and original recording budget, has just as much chance of suceeding in the market as anything else. And his blithering MTV arguement is nonsense, as if any idea of this kind is set in stone - all this from a nation that created two number ones out of ringtones, what was their original recording budget I wonder? Mr studio man's objective seems to be to set out that he has a wider view of the market because of his geographical position, which is plainly silly.
One of the interesting things about the music market is that it is not possible to finance an artist and have a predictable outcome of the investment.
Even the most manufactured pop music has vague economic outcomes, and for the artist, if commercial sucess briefly forfills the '4. Accepting whatever money turns up as a result of their work' factor, it generally only creates a large deficit in the '1. Enjoying and being surprised about the music they can make' factor.
It may initially satisfy the '3. Accepting the recognition this work gives them' factor, but it can also eventually irrepairably erode this as one well.
Would the Government be ill-advised to invest taxpayers money into something so fickle? Probably.
Current evidence mostly supports this answer based on the Government's interventions thus far. It doesn't mean they shouldn't keep trying though I guess.
"...Of course the govt should send nz ...
"...Of course the govt should send nz music to the world, at least it deserves as much of a look in as our athletes."
This in my opinion is a bloody good point. Does anybody know if they still release the NZ On Air hit disks. I found these were a great way ( and cheap ) to expose new, and sometimes old bands.
Even simple 3 song demos work. Look at 'The Checks' for example, R.E.M's management stumbled across their demo while on tour in europe and played it over and over in their tour bus, then thought hey, lets book these guys to support our N.Z tour.
Maybe NZ music should look at creating a cd along the lines of the old hit disk, for the international market??
// Does anybody know if they still ...
// Does anybody know if they still release the NZ On Air hit disks.
Yes. They are released once a month now and incorporate the hit discs and indie discs in one.
// Look at 'The Checks' for example, R.E.M's management stumbled across their demo while on tour in europe
Not to knock the Checks at all - but I doubt there was much stumbling involved.
// Maybe NZ music should look at creating a cd along the lines of the old hit disk, for the international market??
What, and plug it to international radio?