Last night I watched my friend’s band play at the Ambassador in Point Chev(Auckland)…After the band had set up, tuned their guitars and were just about to start, a bar person came up and told them they couldn’t play…it was time to close….No warning…No “you have only got X minutes left” No “sorry but could you just play a couple of songs…”I looked around and saw the pub packed with friends and acquaintances spending up over the bar . I saw the disrespectful way the band was being treated…and I got to thinking, dear readers…
Musicians have an obligation to a venue to be professional and to bring in the punters to spend money at the bar….but what about a venue’s obligations???? … Even when a band fulfils their part of the bargain, why is it that some pub owners and bar staff treat bands like shit?...Why do people in bands bend over and take it???? What is all this ‘I’m so grateful to have a gig’ bullshit??
Musicians…Wake Up…You make money for these pubs…would anyone (except the overflow from the public lounge) actually go and drink at the Kings Arms(for example) if there were never any bands playing there???Come on…let’s face it…the place is actually a shithole (not the people…the place...)……I have been told that both the Kings Arms and the Dogs Bollix are now charging bands for the use of the P.A. system….Why hasn’t there been an uproar from musicians??Why hasn’t anyone told them to get fucked??...Are you going to pay a pub just so you can get all your mates in there drinking their overpriced piss???
Think about who gets paid during a show…The pub owner(s) through alcohol sales…the bar staff…the sound engineers….who is last in the payment food chain?......The musicians….Why are people even there in the first place???.....The musicians…Who are a bunch of mugs???.......yep…The musicians…..WHY???
I fear it’s some kind of “paying your dues “mentality on the part of the musicians. They think that although things are a bit shitty now, soon they’re gonna ‘make it’….Bollocks.This is all part of the Capitalist illusion perpetuated by the media….”There’s room on top for you..You’ve just got to work hard and be competitive…you’re gonna be a star”…Sorry folks,but this is exactly the mentality
that keeps the working class divided and in a state of suspended animation.You may have a really cool band and a hip haircut, But this means you too…..
Music is not about getting your video on C4,it’s not about getting a ‘really good’ review in Real Groovy,it’s not about competing with other bands and it’s definitely not about taking shit from sleazy bars/barmen(Ambassador) that you are bringing in the dollars for….
It’s about human communication…the sooner we all realise this the better it will be for everyone…
Peace.
P.S. I’d like to suggest that all venues treating bands like shit and/or charging bands for the use of their P.A.s are blacklisted by musicians until they change their attitude/ policy.
If you are headlining a gig at any venue, you have obviously already paid your dues, to charge a band for the use of the PA is disgusting! Where do these venues get the nerve???
Absolutely adds salt to the wound of being a 'struggling musician' I can't believe bands actually pay out for this?
Its really important for bands these days to have contracts with the venue. I know this doesn't happen much with smaller gigs but if it did then you wouldn't have problems like this one. It needs to be put down on paper and both parties need to agree and sign on it. Then if you have an agreement with the venue to play (and you have held up your half of the bargain) then there is NO WAY that a venue can kick you off the stage.
And if they did then there are steps you can take, going to small claims court if they owe you money (though this will cost alot and is really only viable for large amounts of money) or just telling everyone you know that this venue broke a written contract.
In this instance it seems like there was a verbal contract for this band to play and it has been broken by the venue, this will stand up in court but of course is harder to prove (and expensive) but you can tell everyone you know about it.
So my advice is .............TELL EVERYONE! Shame this venue into treating bands (and punters, the band is there for their entertainment after all) with more respect.
And bands, don't be pushed around! And if you are no good at this sort of stuff then get a good friend or a manager to take care of it.
Venue owners know that alot of bands are more interested in the music (and rightly so) and therefore are easier to push around. They need to learn to work with bands in order to make for a better nights entertainment for the punter. Cos at the end of the day, thats what its all about, making people happy!
//And if they did then there are steps you can take, going to small claims court if they owe you money (though this will cost alot and is really only viable for large amounts of money)//
Nope ... the small claims tribunal, if that is what is still called, costs very little (used to be $10) and is just perfect for the sort of situation you describe. Can be used for claims up to $10k I believe. It is pretty simple, no lawyers (yay) and the decisions are enforcable.
Motel9 (John Howell, a former member of Salon Kingsadore)is not telling the whole truth. The show at the Ambassodor was a party not a public show so there never was payment involved. The woman in charge apologised more than once to the group (who did in the end play)for which she subjected to abuse and threatening behaviour from Howell, despite objections from some band members. The incident was regreted and Howell has since left the group (who will carry on.) The band don't condone that sort of treatment of women. The rest of the email is drivel. Communication (something Howell is not good at)is about playing live and getting a group's work out to listeners. It has nothing to do with class. Howell is himself a former Otago Boys High student (a top Dunedin school) and a university graduate who teaches english in the city. A middle class professional in other words. Do not judge the group from his perspective.They have an excellent debut album about to come outand welcome anyone who supports them.
I hate to say it but it's the mentality of bar owners that is the problem. Not sure where you heard about bands having to pay for the KA's PA , it must be a recent policy? Unfortunately, bar owners/managers seem to have this attitude of "well this is my bar and I'll do what the hell i want with it", and they probably get away with it because there are heaps of bands especially in Auckland that want to play and will basically sell themselves for free in order to to do.
I'm not saying it's right or fair, but it certainly is a problem in the fact that there is no good live music venue left in Auckland (KA excepted) where bands can pick and choose where they want to play. They basically have to take the shit from the bar management because you end up at the back of the queue if you don't play by the rules.
I reckon hte best thing is to get a few bands together, hire a PA between the bands, find a venue and go for it yourselves. I hear the basement at Galatos goes for $500 a night. If you charge a small fee at the door - sweet. Not much difference between doing that and getting paid bugger all to play at some pub where you are unappreciated.
Fucking true man..Wake up musicians..you are the stars not the bar owners..find a competitor if they do that next time & take the bar cash to the next till..Fuck them they suck!
Or what we do in Christchurch, there are quite a few halls that are either free (as long as you purchase their alcohol over the bar/not overpriced) or cheap halls that you can pack a huge crowd into, call it a party. Gold coin entry . Have kegs that people can put in for or BYO
"Think about who gets paid during a show…The pub owner(s) through alcohol sales…the bar staff…the sound engineers….who is last in the payment food chain?......The musicians….Why are people even there in the first place???.....The musicians…Who are a bunch of mugs???.......yep…The musicians…..WHY???"
think about the overheads of a bar/venue.
bar staff, security, promotion, soundtech, lightingtech, doorperson, rent, stock, parcans + bulbs, dimmerpack, PA, mics, cables, electricity, cleaners.
agreed, the musicians bring in the punters to drink the bars piss, but don't the musicians charge a door fee? who gets that, the bar?? doubt it.
bring back free gigs with the bar paying guarantees to the performers so we don't have to fork out for the half ass rock bands of today as well as having to subsidise our alcohol abuse.
or set the gig up yourself. you'll find the majority of appropriate locations (not shitty concrete bunkers that have NO acoustic qualities) charge room hire and then there is find your own P.A. (FULL RANGE not vocal unless only twenty people come to your gigs), soundtech, lightingtech, doorperson, security, performers, advertising, etc and we'll see if you end up with more money after the gig than, say, paying a minimal P.A./room hire and not having to worry about any of the other logistics.
capiche?
no, some venues have a person on the door for every gig.
oh, one cost i forgot is apra fees. is it reasonable for venues to get charged apra fees for non registered artists?
if the venues aren't making money, they don't stay open. The PA is a one off cost for the bar, excluding repairs. A popular bar that regulary gets packed out by booking good bands doesn't need to charge them for the use of the PA, come on! Give us a break.
//me? i mean people who take money at the door
if there is a cover charge - it is usually the bands who taker the profit (or loss!) and most of the gigs that I have been to it has been the bands responsibility to organise someone to sit there and say "er there is a cover charge $10 please...
//The PA is a one off cost for the bar, excluding repairs. A popular bar that regulary gets packed out by booking good bands doesn't need to charge them for the use of the PA, come on! Give us a break. //
A PA such as the one at the KA costs $1000's ... the amount they charge for its use (about $35 per band, I think) is not going to recover that cost in a hurry. The bars invest in the equipment so that bands can play. To charge for its use (and in the case of the KA I think the charge also covers the cost of the guy running the sound) is actually quite reasonable. If you wanted to hire a decent PA you would be looking at least at about the same amount as you would be charged by the bar ... possibly more ...
Musicians expect to get paid for the service they provide; fair enough. Why shouldn't the bar get paid for the service (PA Hire) that they provide as well?
sorry Acidess, a P.A. is not a one off cost. alot of venues that have large P.A.'s either hire them from sound company's or are on a lease to buy agreement, because, they're so fuckin' expensive.
I just find it really frustrating that NZ musicians in most cases will not be able to make a living out of their music, and this is just another bill to pay. Effectively, you are being charged to play... what ever way you look at it, it suckeths the big one!
I guess it kinda looks that way, but if you take the more business-like approach (which I know is anaethma to many musos) it is just another business cost. Like it or not music is a business; treat the business part of it in a professional manner (and I am not saying that people don't) and the music part can take care of itself in many ways.
When I was in a band I think the most we ever got paid playing in a pub was around $65 which had to be split between the 4 of us. This was all money from the door charge. Yet pretty much all of the punters in the bar were friends/flatmates and acquaintances of the people in the bands. So the pubs did pretty well out of us. We never did it for the money anyway (obviously) and it was really great seeing all those smiling supportive ppl in the crowd... but we might have been better off having a party at a friends warehouse apartment, brought our own PA and charged $5 at the door. Everyone could have brought their own alcohol, thereby saving $$ on not paying bar prices for drinks and helping their mates out into the bargain. But then the vibe might not have been the same and you're not getting the exposure that you would playing in public. then there's noise control, annoying neighbours...
i find it incredible how little cash filters down to the performers in bands at pubs. .
the one time i got paid for performing, (as a DJ) i was given $75 for a 45 minute set, and was promised at least 50 before the event started
i know in dance music circles (sorry to always compare stuff to this) the losses for lack of crowds are taken on the chin of the promoters of the event (if the bar is organising the evening then they take the loss) there's no way you'd promise a DJ $50 bucks an hour or whatever, then at the end of the night say 'sorry bro, we didn't get enough people, you aren't getting paid.
so if you hire a venue yourself, then whoever hires it (bands, promoter, the guy who needs cash for an exhibition, whatever) takes responsibliity for expenses..
if a bar asks you to play, you're an independant contractor providing a service, and if they don't pay you, then they're (in theory) breaking the law
A certain gig last friday night at a certain Newton bar featuring three young bands cost in the order of $1000 to stage. After the expenses had been paid the bands were all paid a reasonable sum. I don't believe that there was a charge for the PA. But then over 200 people paid to get in and with all the people "on the door" there would have been 250 punters through the bar that night.
The hardest thing to do is to convince bands who would like to get some sort of financial reward from their music that they need to take a business-like approach to this. It is possible to make money playing your music ... maybe not enough to live on full time but certainly enough to keep you in beer, strings and picks!
I can't comment on the events at the Ambassador but I have been to a couple of gigs there and in both instances the staff there were very supportive of the bands that were playing. It seems to me that part of the problem at the Ambassador was timing ... bars do have set hours whihc they cannot vary without a special licence. If the band is getting set-up so close to closing time it seems to me that there was some sloppy timing going on ... were the other bands late in starting, did they play too long etc.
As I say from my experience the staff at the Ambassador are pretty supportive, but they have to obey the rules just like every one else.
// A certain gig last friday night at a certain Newton bar featuring three young bands cost in the order of $1000 to stage
how much did the security cost? and what was the thought process behind hiring security anyway? i've never seen security at that certain newton bar before.
$45 I believe ... I'm not sure why it was there either. My guess is that there was a worry from the bar that the bands would attract a lot of under-age patrons ... so maybe they wanted a guy on the door to handle that for them. With a reasonable crowd it would be pretty hard for the staff to vet all the punters. But that is just a guess.
i totally agree... when we were setting up to play at margaritas we were suddenly told that we wernt allowed to use their P.A! that really sucked... also partly cos we werent getting paid for the gig! luckily we managed to hire one quickly and we managed to pay for it through donations which we were forced to ask for
As horrid as it sounds, look for sponsorship. See if there are any brandings that will back you in a small way for starters, just to see if you will pick things up a bit.
Each time we have a concert I keep reporting back to our rep in report form on how many people turned up, how many people I signed up to our email list etc.
The good thing about building an email list is that it gives your sponsor a measurable consumer base to market to. I'd never hand your email list to them but invite them to let you know when they are running specials etc. Try to include this in a related way to what you are talking about in your regular mail outs(you do have an email list right?). Always report back to the sponsor and pat your own back about the great work you are doing for them. This keeps the relationship alive and gives them numbers and justification to why they should be giving you things.
Now trying to go back to the subject... um...... As far as I'm concerned the KA has the best PA and soundie I have ever played through. We entered a battle of the bands comp, even though we didn't really want to, just to play through the rig.
One thing to keep in mind, and it's totally up to you. If you are going to sue venue owners for breech of contract etc. Won't that action follow the name of your band? Wouldn't a venue think twice about using your band because of this?
of course, actually doing something as drastic as legally challenging a bar about paymet for playing could spell doom for your band, but i really don't see why you should be punished just because you are a musician , and not a sales rep or a lawyer.. . if you are getting paid, you have all the rights of any other worker or contractor, but then again, if you want those rights, you have to put up with inconvieniences like tax and stuff ... i know i'd rather be paid under the table in cash sometimes
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Last night I watched my friend’s band ...
Last night I watched my friend’s band play at the Ambassador in Point Chev(Auckland)…After the band had set up, tuned their guitars and were just about to start, a bar person came up and told them they couldn’t play…it was time to close….No warning…No “you have only got X minutes left” No “sorry but could you just play a couple of songs…”I looked around and saw the pub packed with friends and acquaintances spending up over the bar . I saw the disrespectful way the band was being treated…and I got to thinking, dear readers…
Musicians have an obligation to a venue to be professional and to bring in the punters to spend money at the bar….but what about a venue’s obligations???? … Even when a band fulfils their part of the bargain, why is it that some pub owners and bar staff treat bands like shit?...Why do people in bands bend over and take it???? What is all this ‘I’m so grateful to have a gig’ bullshit??
Musicians…Wake Up…You make money for these pubs…would anyone (except the overflow from the public lounge) actually go and drink at the Kings Arms(for example) if there were never any bands playing there???Come on…let’s face it…the place is actually a shithole (not the people…the place...)……I have been told that both the Kings Arms and the Dogs Bollix are now charging bands for the use of the P.A. system….Why hasn’t there been an uproar from musicians??Why hasn’t anyone told them to get fucked??...Are you going to pay a pub just so you can get all your mates in there drinking their overpriced piss???
Think about who gets paid during a show…The pub owner(s) through alcohol sales…the bar staff…the sound engineers….who is last in the payment food chain?......The musicians….Why are people even there in the first place???.....The musicians…Who are a bunch of mugs???.......yep…The musicians…..WHY???
I fear it’s some kind of “paying your dues “mentality on the part of the musicians. They think that although things are a bit shitty now, soon they’re gonna ‘make it’….Bollocks.This is all part of the Capitalist illusion perpetuated by the media….”There’s room on top for you..You’ve just got to work hard and be competitive…you’re gonna be a star”…Sorry folks,but this is exactly the mentality
that keeps the working class divided and in a state of suspended animation.You may have a really cool band and a hip haircut, But this means you too…..
Music is not about getting your video on C4,it’s not about getting a ‘really good’ review in Real Groovy,it’s not about competing with other bands and it’s definitely not about taking shit from sleazy bars/barmen(Ambassador) that you are bringing in the dollars for….
It’s about human communication…the sooner we all realise this the better it will be for everyone…
Peace.
P.S. I’d like to suggest that all venues treating bands like shit and/or charging bands for the use of their P.A.s are blacklisted by musicians until they change their attitude/ policy.
Agree totally! If you are ...
Agree totally!
If you are headlining a gig at any venue, you have obviously already paid your dues, to charge a band for the use of the PA is disgusting! Where do these venues get the nerve???
Absolutely adds salt to the wound of being a 'struggling musician' I can't believe bands actually pay out for this?
Its really important for bands these ...
Its really important for bands these days to have contracts with the venue. I know this doesn't happen much with smaller gigs but if it did then you wouldn't have problems like this one. It needs to be put down on paper and both parties need to agree and sign on it. Then if you have an agreement with the venue to play (and you have held up your half of the bargain) then there is NO WAY that a venue can kick you off the stage.
And if they did then there are steps you can take, going to small claims court if they owe you money (though this will cost alot and is really only viable for large amounts of money) or just telling everyone you know that this venue broke a written contract.
In this instance it seems like there was a verbal contract for this band to play and it has been broken by the venue, this will stand up in court but of course is harder to prove (and expensive) but you can tell everyone you know about it.
So my advice is .............TELL EVERYONE! Shame this venue into treating bands (and punters, the band is there for their entertainment after all) with more respect.
And bands, don't be pushed around! And if you are no good at this sort of stuff then get a good friend or a manager to take care of it.
Venue owners know that alot of bands are more interested in the music (and rightly so) and therefore are easier to push around. They need to learn to work with bands in order to make for a better nights entertainment for the punter. Cos at the end of the day, thats what its all about, making people happy!
[ http://www.newdamage.org ]
would the contract mention bands ...
would the contract mention bands starting on time?
stefan, you crazy! YOU CRAZY!!...
stefan, you crazy! YOU CRAZY!!
//And if they did then there are steps ...
//And if they did then there are steps you can take, going to small claims court if they owe you money (though this will cost alot and is really only viable for large amounts of money)//
Nope ... the small claims tribunal, if that is what is still called, costs very little (used to be $10) and is just perfect for the sort of situation you describe. Can be used for claims up to $10k I believe. It is pretty simple, no lawyers (yay) and the decisions are enforcable.
Motel9 (John Howell, a former member of ...
Motel9 (John Howell, a former member of Salon Kingsadore)is not telling the whole truth. The show at the Ambassodor was a party not a public show so there never was payment involved. The woman in charge apologised more than once to the group (who did in the end play)for which she subjected to abuse and threatening behaviour from Howell, despite objections from some band members. The incident was regreted and Howell has since left the group (who will carry on.) The band don't condone that sort of treatment of women. The rest of the email is drivel. Communication (something Howell is not good at)is about playing live and getting a group's work out to listeners. It has nothing to do with class. Howell is himself a former Otago Boys High student (a top Dunedin school) and a university graduate who teaches english in the city. A middle class professional in other words. Do not judge the group from his perspective.They have an excellent debut album about to come outand welcome anyone who supports them.
YES...
YES
I hate to say it but it's the ...
I hate to say it but it's the mentality of bar owners that is the problem. Not sure where you heard about bands having to pay for the KA's PA , it must be a recent policy? Unfortunately, bar owners/managers seem to have this attitude of "well this is my bar and I'll do what the hell i want with it", and they probably get away with it because there are heaps of bands especially in Auckland that want to play and will basically sell themselves for free in order to to do.
I'm not saying it's right or fair, but it certainly is a problem in the fact that there is no good live music venue left in Auckland (KA excepted) where bands can pick and choose where they want to play. They basically have to take the shit from the bar management because you end up at the back of the queue if you don't play by the rules.
I reckon hte best thing is to get a few bands together, hire a PA between the bands, find a venue and go for it yourselves. I hear the basement at Galatos goes for $500 a night. If you charge a small fee at the door - sweet. Not much difference between doing that and getting paid bugger all to play at some pub where you are unappreciated.
Fucking true man..Wake up ...
Fucking true man..Wake up musicians..you are the stars not the bar owners..find a competitor if they do that next time & take the bar cash to the next till..Fuck them they suck!
Or what we do in Christchurch, there ...
Or what we do in Christchurch, there are quite a few halls that are either free (as long as you purchase their alcohol over the bar/not overpriced) or cheap halls that you can pack a huge crowd into, call it a party. Gold coin entry . Have kegs that people can put in for or BYO
Bands actually get paid! what a concept!!
"Think about who gets paid during a ...
"Think about who gets paid during a show…The pub owner(s) through alcohol sales…the bar staff…the sound engineers….who is last in the payment food chain?......The musicians….Why are people even there in the first place???.....The musicians…Who are a bunch of mugs???.......yep…The musicians…..WHY???"
think about the overheads of a bar/venue.
bar staff, security, promotion, soundtech, lightingtech, doorperson, rent, stock, parcans + bulbs, dimmerpack, PA, mics, cables, electricity, cleaners.
agreed, the musicians bring in the punters to drink the bars piss, but don't the musicians charge a door fee? who gets that, the bar?? doubt it.
bring back free gigs with the bar paying guarantees to the performers so we don't have to fork out for the half ass rock bands of today as well as having to subsidise our alcohol abuse.
or set the gig up yourself. you'll find the majority of appropriate locations (not shitty concrete bunkers that have NO acoustic qualities) charge room hire and then there is find your own P.A. (FULL RANGE not vocal unless only twenty people come to your gigs), soundtech, lightingtech, doorperson, security, performers, advertising, etc and we'll see if you end up with more money after the gig than, say, paying a minimal P.A./room hire and not having to worry about any of the other logistics.
capiche?
i didn't know venues provide door ...
i didn't know venues provide door people.
i wonder if they tell lots of knock ...
i wonder if they tell lots of knock knock jokes!
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
....but seriously - doorpeople...do you really mean bouncers?
me? i mean people who take money at the ...
me? i mean people who take money at the door.
no, some venues have a person on the ...
no, some venues have a person on the door for every gig.
oh, one cost i forgot is apra fees. is it reasonable for venues to get charged apra fees for non registered artists?
if the venues aren't making money, ...
if the venues aren't making money, they don't stay open. The PA is a one off cost for the bar, excluding repairs. A popular bar that regulary gets packed out by booking good bands doesn't need to charge them for the use of the PA, come on! Give us a break.
//me? i mean people who take money at ...
//me? i mean people who take money at the door
if there is a cover charge - it is usually the bands who taker the profit (or loss!) and most of the gigs that I have been to it has been the bands responsibility to organise someone to sit there and say "er there is a cover charge $10 please...
heh.
//The PA is a one off cost for the bar, ...
//The PA is a one off cost for the bar, excluding repairs. A popular bar that regulary gets packed out by booking good bands doesn't need to charge them for the use of the PA, come on! Give us a break. //
A PA such as the one at the KA costs $1000's ... the amount they charge for its use (about $35 per band, I think) is not going to recover that cost in a hurry. The bars invest in the equipment so that bands can play. To charge for its use (and in the case of the KA I think the charge also covers the cost of the guy running the sound) is actually quite reasonable. If you wanted to hire a decent PA you would be looking at least at about the same amount as you would be charged by the bar ... possibly more ...
Musicians expect to get paid for the service they provide; fair enough. Why shouldn't the bar get paid for the service (PA Hire) that they provide as well?
sorry Acidess, a P.A. is not a one off ...
sorry Acidess, a P.A. is not a one off cost. alot of venues that have large P.A.'s either hire them from sound company's or are on a lease to buy agreement, because, they're so fuckin' expensive.
Point taken, I just find it really ...
Point taken,
I just find it really frustrating that NZ musicians in most cases will not be able to make a living out of their music, and this is just another bill to pay. Effectively, you are being charged to play... what ever way you look at it, it suckeths the big one!
How discouraging!
// Effectively, you are being charged ...
// Effectively, you are being charged to play//
I guess it kinda looks that way, but if you take the more business-like approach (which I know is anaethma to many musos) it is just another business cost. Like it or not music is a business; treat the business part of it in a professional manner (and I am not saying that people don't) and the music part can take care of itself in many ways.
//is it reasonable for venues to get ...
//is it reasonable for venues to get charged apra fees for non registered artists? //
I thought that the venue charge was based on the performances at the venue the details of which are provided to APRA by registered artists.
if you're playing small venues you can ...
if you're playing small venues you can hire a decent PA for a coupla Hundred..just crank your amps up. .
most musicians would know 'a guy with a rig' or hire one off a church group or youth centre ;)
When I was in a band I think the most ...
When I was in a band I think the most we ever got paid playing in a pub was around $65 which had to be split between the 4 of us. This was all money from the door charge. Yet pretty much all of the punters in the bar were friends/flatmates and acquaintances of the people in the bands. So the pubs did pretty well out of us. We never did it for the money anyway (obviously) and it was really great seeing all those smiling supportive ppl in the crowd... but we might have been better off having a party at a friends warehouse apartment, brought our own PA and charged $5 at the door. Everyone could have brought their own alcohol, thereby saving $$ on not paying bar prices for drinks and helping their mates out into the bargain. But then the vibe might not have been the same and you're not getting the exposure that you would playing in public. then there's noise control, annoying neighbours...
i find it incredible how little cash ...
i find it incredible how little cash filters down to the performers in bands at pubs. .
the one time i got paid for performing, (as a DJ) i was given $75 for a 45 minute set, and was promised at least 50 before the event started
i know in dance music circles (sorry to always compare stuff to this) the losses for lack of crowds are taken on the chin of the promoters of the event (if the bar is organising the evening then they take the loss) there's no way you'd promise a DJ $50 bucks an hour or whatever, then at the end of the night say 'sorry bro, we didn't get enough people, you aren't getting paid.
so if you hire a venue yourself, then whoever hires it (bands, promoter, the guy who needs cash for an exhibition, whatever) takes responsibliity for expenses..
if a bar asks you to play, you're an independant contractor providing a service, and if they don't pay you, then they're (in theory) breaking the law
A certain gig last friday night at a ...
A certain gig last friday night at a certain Newton bar featuring three young bands cost in the order of $1000 to stage. After the expenses had been paid the bands were all paid a reasonable sum. I don't believe that there was a charge for the PA. But then over 200 people paid to get in and with all the people "on the door" there would have been 250 punters through the bar that night.
The hardest thing to do is to convince bands who would like to get some sort of financial reward from their music that they need to take a business-like approach to this. It is possible to make money playing your music ... maybe not enough to live on full time but certainly enough to keep you in beer, strings and picks!
I can't comment on the events at the Ambassador but I have been to a couple of gigs there and in both instances the staff there were very supportive of the bands that were playing. It seems to me that part of the problem at the Ambassador was timing ... bars do have set hours whihc they cannot vary without a special licence. If the band is getting set-up so close to closing time it seems to me that there was some sloppy timing going on ... were the other bands late in starting, did they play too long etc.
As I say from my experience the staff at the Ambassador are pretty supportive, but they have to obey the rules just like every one else.
// A certain gig last friday night at a ...
// A certain gig last friday night at a certain Newton bar featuring three young bands cost in the order of $1000 to stage
how much did the security cost? and what was the thought process behind hiring security anyway? i've never seen security at that certain newton bar before.
$45 I believe ... I'm not sure why it ...
$45 I believe ... I'm not sure why it was there either. My guess is that there was a worry from the bar that the bands would attract a lot of under-age patrons ... so maybe they wanted a guy on the door to handle that for them. With a reasonable crowd it would be pretty hard for the staff to vet all the punters. But that is just a guess.
i totally agree... when we were setting ...
i totally agree... when we were setting up to play at margaritas we were suddenly told that we wernt allowed to use their P.A! that really sucked... also partly cos we werent getting paid for the gig! luckily we managed to hire one quickly and we managed to pay for it through donations which we were forced to ask for
Here is a little suggestion for ...
Here is a little suggestion for you.
As horrid as it sounds, look for sponsorship. See if there are any brandings that will back you in a small way for starters, just to see if you will pick things up a bit.
Each time we have a concert I keep reporting back to our rep in report form on how many people turned up, how many people I signed up to our email list etc.
The good thing about building an email list is that it gives your sponsor a measurable consumer base to market to. I'd never hand your email list to them but invite them to let you know when they are running specials etc. Try to include this in a related way to what you are talking about in your regular mail outs(you do have an email list right?). Always report back to the sponsor and pat your own back about the great work you are doing for them. This keeps the relationship alive and gives them numbers and justification to why they should be giving you things.
Now trying to go back to the subject... um...... As far as I'm concerned the KA has the best PA and soundie I have ever played through. We entered a battle of the bands comp, even though we didn't really want to, just to play through the rig.
One thing to keep in mind, and it's totally up to you. If you are going to sue venue owners for breech of contract etc. Won't that action follow the name of your band? Wouldn't a venue think twice about using your band because of this?
Just a thought.
[ http://www.fourthmember.com ]
//breach of contract etc.. of ...
//breach of contract etc..
of course, actually doing something as drastic as legally challenging a bar about paymet for playing could spell doom for your band, but i really don't see why you should be punished just because you are a musician , and not a sales rep or a lawyer.. . if you are getting paid, you have all the rights of any other worker or contractor, but then again, if you want those rights, you have to put up with inconvieniences like tax and stuff ... i know i'd rather be paid under the table in cash sometimes