"there will be a time when not all moons are in allignment"
"3 blocks from my home in auckland"
no matter how good a 'politician' she is at calling it as she see's it
the laws introduced under this labour goverment
in particular
the suppression of terrorism
and the electoral finance
are the biggest desecration of that flag so far.
which isn't saying much
but what is.
yeah that is a cool flag. i like it better than the 'pen/feather/fern' one (though that gets better the closer you get to it. which isn't the point with a flag, though).
I'd be too concerned that if we changed it, it would look like a corporate logo and not a flag. I like how our flag looks likes a flag. I don't care about any politics behind it. If I was an olympian (and we all know I'm not) I doubt I would feel any pride staring at some stylised logo of a silver fern. Change is sometimes not as good as a holiday. I wouldn't really care if we changed it....but if we change it, surely some gay saatchi's designer will charge $10,000,000 dollars to design something so mid-nineties that it just looks rank (te papa styles)
Dude everything is a brand these days. New Zealand is a brand. The flag should reflect the global market strategy in place to permeate the foreign markets. You want people to visit, give them a symbol, a trigger, a banner. The flag is too similar to Australia's and is only causing brand confusion. NZ? That is part of Australia, right? No. Differeniate. Identity is key.
Yeah, I'm not loving the idea of a flag that looks like a corporate logo. The primary purpose of a flag is not to promote its country as a tourist destination (or whatever), that's just a little spinoff.
So many countries just have simple flags like the classic tri-colour that don't even come close to looking like a corporate logo, and works really well as a flag.
As for the Australia and New Zealand similarities. Well, France's flag is red, white and blue, Italy is red, white and green, Ireland is orange, white and green. They're all really similar and yet all are different and evoke different reactions from the citizens of those countries, and from other countries.
Hundreds of years ago when the classic flags of the world were first designed, people weren't thinking about global branding strategies. A flag is a symbol of a nation. Branding is for cattle.
im agreeing with you there a low hum... if i ever got the chance to be standing on a podium anywhere representing new zealand i wouldnt wanna be watching sumcorporate logo... hell why not jus go the whole hog and put the the mcdonald's golden arches with the kiwi infront on the flag! change is all good but its gotta have a traditional look to it and its gotta be something all new zealanders can paint relatively easily on their face for sports events... and to look at with pride
besides.....I'm already embarrassed enough of New Zealand being known only as the country of the All Blacks...to endorse a "silver fern" flag...would be to say to everyone..."yup thats us...NZ sports...our team logo is now our flag...we have no culture, history, passion...just sport"
I have to agree..... the thing with that stylised fern is it dosn't look like a fern... we only know it's a fern because we are.. like kewe's. anyone else would think we come from silver leaf country.
it's great to have dibs on the colour black but surely we can do better than 'a logo'
// In many instances, a flag is used in an international context. There is no question that the Silver Fern is the most recognised symbol of New Zealand. For over a century the Silver Fern has been the emblem of our sports men and women.
// The heart needs to beat faster on sighting of our country’s flag. The Silver Fern is etched in the memory of great victories by the All Blacks, our runners Jack Lovelock, Peter Snell and John Walker, the rowing eight from Munich. The Silver Fern conjures up emotions of grit, guts and genius. It says, "take on the world and beat it".
//The Silver Fern has been a feature of our iconography for well over a century. The All Blacks made it their official emblem in 1893.
sounds like they're thinking too much on how we think other people view our flag. what other nations think when they see the flag ... what other teams think ... us vs them, and 'us' has the low self esteem of a far-flung young-ish ex-colony (happens with our music too - 'overseas' likes a band - then it's alright for 'us' to like them too.)
good grief - branding? WTF? design? what the hell does that have to do with it?
i want a badly designed 'she'll be right'/no. 8 wire no frills flag thanks. fcuk off design gurus.
To me, the silver fern on a black background is a symbol of New Zealand sport, not a symbol of New Zealand as a nation. It seems like it would be more appropriate as a logo for a sports body than a flag representing the entire nation.
ok im not against change...in fact sure why not change the flag... but lets jus remember that we're not jus a sporting nation... how bout having a flag that not only represents the sporting side of new zealand but the cultural, academic, social and...well everything else we kiwi's are PROUD of... lets stop thinking bout how other countries see our flag and how other countries relate the silver fern to our sporting heros and lets start thinking bout a flag that all kiwi's young, old, maori, pakeha, asian and pacific island decent can be proud of and look upon with that pride...after all isnt it going to be OUR flag?
That way all the crayons get to be used and it'd look really pretty. (it could look tacky if done poorly though) The beauty of uniqueness and diversity.
The flightless bird not keeping us from taking off, waving about in the sky; a place that many New Zealanders take to. But much like the kiwi, remaining grounded in the feeling and knowledge of where they come from and generally come back to.
i thought that when i was little... which admittidly wasnt that long ago... that they were going to change the flag to a red kiwi, at the time i knew quite a bit about it, but then if i made the theory up then of course i would know a lot about it.
but instead of a fern a kiwi would be better because we are known as 'kiwis' so therefor its more symolic and represents us better
sorry but being called a 'Kiwi' is bloody stupid. i've never liked that. Do you see Australians going around calling themselves Kangaroos? it's fucking dorky to me.
yeah a flightless bird on the brink of extinction doesn't really say the right things for me (all respect to the kiwi and I hope the little buggers pull through of course!)
//yeah a flightless bird on the brink of extinction doesn't really say the right things for me (all respect to the kiwi and I hope the little buggers pull through of course!)
if the kiwi pulls through (and it will!) wouldnt it be a good thing to represent new zealand by? wouldnt show that we are a country of survivers and that we are successful... or something along those lines
1. A flag is meant to be flown
-Give me a flag and I'll fly it.
2. A flag needs to be instantly recognisable
-hmmm...I recognise our flag.
3. A flag is a brand
-thats so depressing
4. A flag needs to connect emotionally
-it does
5. A flag should represent great design
-haha....who judges this good design? Saatchis? The Government? A vote put to "the people" Terence Conran?
6. A new flag can honour our past
-changing the flag would dis-honour the past and all the acheivments kiwis made under the current flag
7. A new flag should say one thing
(from website)// Our belief is that the stylised Silver Fern does the strongest job of satisfying the greatest number of New Zealanders at any one time.
-Did they do there research at the fat Ladies Arms in Lower Hutt on a saturday night?
8. The times they are a changin’
-The times are ALWAYS a changin'
haha... 20 years.. no way .. i think the proposed design is outta date already... the less wanky design principles the better... simple .. getting a new flag does kinda seem like giving up a bit..
"a flag is a brand"
this is most upsetting..
"a flag needs to say one thing"
this is deeply unpleasant
You beat me to it Disasteradio ... Is that the only bars we have here? Hahaha .. I've only ever stepped in 2 bars in the Hutt, one is on that list, one is not.
I'd love to see a change of flag. I'm proud of my country but I've always felt let down by the flag for many reasons incl:
It's a formula colonial flag very close to many others. The difference between countries is only in the details.
It's not helping with the "oh NZ isn't that a state of australia?" reponse commonly encountered in the southern United States.
England is no longer 'the mother land' for the new generations of New Zealanders.It's time to cut the apron strings and allow us to express our own identity.
The current flag brings to mind images of white colonials and white explorers. I don't live in a white country.
The colour black, the silver fern and the southern cross are symbols I identity with as a New Zealander. The union jack and the colours red, white and blue belong to other nations.
(+ from a purely stylistic pov how fabulous is it to live in a country who's national colour is black!)
I don't feel strongly about it, but teina your comments are enough to make me think it'd be a good idea.
I'd go with the flag Hundertwasser came up with (mentioned above) purely because I like the look and it's not a brand new design... which I think reduces the chance of the design looking faddish another couple of decades down the track.
It would cost Millions of taxpayers dollars.
Maori and Pakeha would never agree..(not to mention the countless other ethnicites..sp?)
odds are design would suck
Would confuse countrys internationally even more as they try to understand who this "new" country is
Would demand a reprint of hundreds of thousands of stationary and books costing me and you
Would confuse kids everywhere as they struggle to define their cultural identity.
People will still not fly it, cause we're not that type of people
Other countries will still think we are an island of Australia
at the very least...please can we stall it at least a few years so we don't have to incorporate NZ is middle earth...or any LOTR reference into the flag.
arrr, devil rider im gonna have to charge you royalty fees for using my pirate flag idea (see above).. or you could just put my name on the door at bodega on friday
//It's a formula colonial flag very close to many others.
NZ is a formula colonial country, why pretend? The difference between countries is only in the details.
//It's not helping with the "oh NZ isn't that a state of australia?"
neither is the tans-tasman tax policy
the warriors, kingz, breakers etc
ANZFA
//reponse commonly encountered in the southern United States.
no comment necessary
//England is no longer 'the mother land' for the new generations of New Zealanders.
this has always been the case
abel tasman was dutch
there have been chinese, italian, danish (you name it) here since the before the treaty was signed
//It's time to cut the apron strings and allow us to express our own identity.
we did that about 100 years ago and as far as i can tell we are still expressing our identity
//The current flag brings to mind images of white colonials and white explorers. I don't live in a white country.
Britian is not an exclusively white country, NZ has never been an exclusively white country
race should not come into this
//The colour black, the silver fern
are symbols of NZ SPORT!
//The union jack and the colours red, white and blue belong to other nations.
and though you would prefer to be an historical orphan
these are countries whose people did good work in establishing new zealand
they are part of our countries geneology and evolution
and the UNION JACK is a pretty noble thing
a symbol of the coming together of disparite (sp?) nations into one united whole
// from a purely stylistic pov how fabulous is it to live in a country who's national colour is black
yes i am pretty proud new zealand's national colour is black
that rules
but we don't need to be like ronald mcdonald and dress everything up in that colour
look at italy
national colour is blue
flag is green white and red
//It's not helping with the "oh NZ isn't that a state of australia?"
//neither is the tans-tasman tax policy
//the warriors, kingz, breakers etc
//ANZFA
These are examples of commonplace relationships between countries - what about the EEC, NATO, and the FA cup?
//we did that about 100 years ago and as far as i can tell we are still expressing our identity
Well as a New Zealander born and bred I do not feel that the flag represents my idea of a national identity. I do not feel like a colony. The union jack does not, and never will, represent me.
//The current flag brings to mind images of white colonials and white explorers. I don't live in a white country.
//Britian is not an exclusively white country
no and as you'll see , I did not say it was.
//NZ has never been an exclusively white country
that was my point
//The colour black, the silver fern
//are symbols of NZ SPORT!
yes as well as many other facets of New Zealand culture including many government departments, many significant pieces of art, many NZ based brands and goods as well as the armed forces and the natural environment
//The union jack and the colours red, white and blue belong to other nations.
//and though you would prefer to be an historical orphan these are countries whose people did good //work in establishing new zealand they are part of our countries geneology and evolution
//and the UNION JACK is a pretty noble thing a symbol of the coming together of disparite (sp?) //nations into one united whole
I do not consider myself a historical orphen - I have over 150 years of New Zealand history to draw upon. I am fiercely proud of what New Zealand has acheived in that short period of time - Hilary, Suffrage, Rutherford, nuclear-free, ANZACS, Snell, Walker, hotere, McCahon, The invincibles, Lange, Frame etc etc . I look for a flag to represent this history and to represent what Herzer will contribute in the future.
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oh god is this thread still
oh god is this thread still going ...
is now the
is now the time?
"chattering..."
"there will be a time when not all moons are in allignment"
"3 blocks from my home in auckland"
no matter how good a 'politician' she is at calling it as she see's it
the laws introduced under this labour goverment
in particular
the suppression of terrorism
and the electoral finance
are the biggest desecration of that flag so far.
which isn't saying much
but what is.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I find it ...
Anyone have thoughts on this? I find it to be a fascinating issue, the more you look into it...
We're supporting the idea of (national) debate on this issue at NZM - you may have seen a little flag icon on the left of the forums also...
[ http://www.nzflag.com ]
Hunterwasser's flag is the best. So ...
Hunterwasser's flag is the best. So beautiful.
Hundertwasser what a tool i am!...
Hundertwasser
what a tool i am!
[ external link ]
yeah that is a cool flag. i like it ...
yeah that is a cool flag. i like it better than the 'pen/feather/fern' one (though that gets better the closer you get to it. which isn't the point with a flag, though).
I'd be too concerned that if we ...
I'd be too concerned that if we changed it, it would look like a corporate logo and not a flag. I like how our flag looks likes a flag. I don't care about any politics behind it. If I was an olympian (and we all know I'm not) I doubt I would feel any pride staring at some stylised logo of a silver fern. Change is sometimes not as good as a holiday. I wouldn't really care if we changed it....but if we change it, surely some gay saatchi's designer will charge $10,000,000 dollars to design something so mid-nineties that it just looks rank (te papa styles)
New Zealand (TM)...
New Zealand (TM)
Dude everything is a brand these days. ...
Dude everything is a brand these days. New Zealand is a brand. The flag should reflect the global market strategy in place to permeate the foreign markets. You want people to visit, give them a symbol, a trigger, a banner. The flag is too similar to Australia's and is only causing brand confusion. NZ? That is part of Australia, right? No. Differeniate. Identity is key.
thinking objectively, with a view ...
thinking objectively, with a view ahead. props man.
Yeah, I'm not loving the idea of a ...
Yeah, I'm not loving the idea of a flag that looks like a corporate logo. The primary purpose of a flag is not to promote its country as a tourist destination (or whatever), that's just a little spinoff.
So many countries just have simple flags like the classic tri-colour that don't even come close to looking like a corporate logo, and works really well as a flag.
As for the Australia and New Zealand similarities. Well, France's flag is red, white and blue, Italy is red, white and green, Ireland is orange, white and green. They're all really similar and yet all are different and evoke different reactions from the citizens of those countries, and from other countries.
Hundreds of years ago when the classic flags of the world were first designed, people weren't thinking about global branding strategies. A flag is a symbol of a nation. Branding is for cattle.
im agreeing with you there a low hum... ...
im agreeing with you there a low hum... if i ever got the chance to be standing on a podium anywhere representing new zealand i wouldnt wanna be watching sumcorporate logo... hell why not jus go the whole hog and put the the mcdonald's golden arches with the kiwi infront on the flag! change is all good but its gotta have a traditional look to it and its gotta be something all new zealanders can paint relatively easily on their face for sports events... and to look at with pride
besides.....I'm already embarrassed ...
besides.....I'm already embarrassed enough of New Zealand being known only as the country of the All Blacks...to endorse a "silver fern" flag...would be to say to everyone..."yup thats us...NZ sports...our team logo is now our flag...we have no culture, history, passion...just sport"
God Defend the All Blacks!
ayeah... im on the fence a bit.. but ...
ayeah... im on the fence a bit.. but did get a little bit nervous when surfing that change our flag site... to much sport sport sport... hmmm
the stylized fern is horrible.. but its just an idea.. and yeah it does fuel debate.. a well thought out site in the most part.. got me thinking
I have to agree..... the thing with ...
I have to agree..... the thing with that stylised fern is it dosn't look like a fern... we only know it's a fern because we are.. like kewe's. anyone else would think we come from silver leaf country.
it's great to have dibs on the colour black but surely we can do better than 'a logo'
// to much sport sport ...
// to much sport sport sport
haha....yeah. like these:
// In many instances, a flag is used in an international context. There is no question that the Silver Fern is the most recognised symbol of New Zealand. For over a century the Silver Fern has been the emblem of our sports men and women.
// The heart needs to beat faster on sighting of our country’s flag. The Silver Fern is etched in the memory of great victories by the All Blacks, our runners Jack Lovelock, Peter Snell and John Walker, the rowing eight from Munich. The Silver Fern conjures up emotions of grit, guts and genius. It says, "take on the world and beat it".
//The Silver Fern has been a feature of our iconography for well over a century. The All Blacks made it their official emblem in 1893.
overload......
sounds like they're thinking too much ...
sounds like they're thinking too much on how we think other people view our flag. what other nations think when they see the flag ... what other teams think ... us vs them, and 'us' has the low self esteem of a far-flung young-ish ex-colony (happens with our music too - 'overseas' likes a band - then it's alright for 'us' to like them too.)
good grief - branding? WTF? design? what the hell does that have to do with it?
i want a badly designed 'she'll be right'/no. 8 wire no frills flag thanks. fcuk off design gurus.
// i want a badly designed 'she'll be ...
// i want a badly designed 'she'll be right'/no. 8 wire no frills flag thanks. fcuk off design gurus.
brilliant.
when are they gonna understand not ...
when are they gonna understand not every nzer is a sports nut??
To me, the silver fern on a black ...
To me, the silver fern on a black background is a symbol of New Zealand sport, not a symbol of New Zealand as a nation. It seems like it would be more appropriate as a logo for a sports body than a flag representing the entire nation.
ok im not against change...in fact sure ...
ok im not against change...in fact sure why not change the flag... but lets jus remember that we're not jus a sporting nation... how bout having a flag that not only represents the sporting side of new zealand but the cultural, academic, social and...well everything else we kiwi's are PROUD of... lets stop thinking bout how other countries see our flag and how other countries relate the silver fern to our sporting heros and lets start thinking bout a flag that all kiwi's young, old, maori, pakeha, asian and pacific island decent can be proud of and look upon with that pride...after all isnt it going to be OUR flag?
I think it'd be great to have a new ...
I think it'd be great to have a new flag, but it would seem a bit weird to choose a design just because everyone already wears it at sports matches.
Also, problem with having a black and white flag would be that 7-year-olds wouldn't have anything to colour in at social studies.
how about a rainbow kiwi? That way ...
how about a rainbow kiwi?
That way all the crayons get to be used and it'd look really pretty. (it could look tacky if done poorly though) The beauty of uniqueness and diversity.
The flightless bird not keeping us from taking off, waving about in the sky; a place that many New Zealanders take to. But much like the kiwi, remaining grounded in the feeling and knowledge of where they come from and generally come back to.
Dunno about you..I'd raise that flag.
i thought that when i was little... ...
i thought that when i was little... which admittidly wasnt that long ago... that they were going to change the flag to a red kiwi, at the time i knew quite a bit about it, but then if i made the theory up then of course i would know a lot about it.
but instead of a fern a kiwi would be better because we are known as 'kiwis' so therefor its more symolic and represents us better
sorry but being called a 'Kiwi' is ...
sorry but being called a 'Kiwi' is bloody stupid. i've never liked that. Do you see Australians going around calling themselves Kangaroos? it's fucking dorky to me.
Australians in foreign countries = ...
Australians in foreign countries = Ozzies.
New Zealand in foreign countries = Newzies?
yeah a flightless bird on the brink of ...
yeah a flightless bird on the brink of extinction doesn't really say the right things for me (all respect to the kiwi and I hope the little buggers pull through of course!)
//New Zealand in foreign countries = ...
//New Zealand in foreign countries = Newzies?
Unfortunately its usually New Zealand in foreign countries = Ozzies. Personally theres nothing worse. j/k.
//yeah a flightless bird on the brink ...
//yeah a flightless bird on the brink of extinction doesn't really say the right things for me (all respect to the kiwi and I hope the little buggers pull through of course!)
if the kiwi pulls through (and it will!) wouldnt it be a good thing to represent new zealand by? wouldnt show that we are a country of survivers and that we are successful... or something along those lines
The 8 points from the website to change ...
The 8 points from the website to change the flag.
1. A flag is meant to be flown
-Give me a flag and I'll fly it.
2. A flag needs to be instantly recognisable
-hmmm...I recognise our flag.
3. A flag is a brand
-thats so depressing
4. A flag needs to connect emotionally
-it does
5. A flag should represent great design
-haha....who judges this good design? Saatchis? The Government? A vote put to "the people" Terence Conran?
6. A new flag can honour our past
-changing the flag would dis-honour the past and all the acheivments kiwis made under the current flag
7. A new flag should say one thing
(from website)// Our belief is that the stylised Silver Fern does the strongest job of satisfying the greatest number of New Zealanders at any one time.
-Did they do there research at the fat Ladies Arms in Lower Hutt on a saturday night?
8. The times they are a changin’
-The times are ALWAYS a changin'
//8. The times they are a ...
//8. The times they are a changin’
-The times are ALWAYS a changin'
this is your most ponderous rebuttal..
i think is should change... but the difficulty will be keeping it simple.. so kiwis can be proud of it for generations to come...
haha. yeah...what I was saying, is ...
haha.
yeah...what I was saying, is that once you change it, what is to stop you changing it again?
maybe we should update the flag every 100 years to keep up with the latest design trends? thouhg the ol' 20 year design cycle shoul help us out a bit.
What about using a cool "alternative" font on the flag and having "New Zealand XTREME!!!" on it?
haha... 20 years.. no way .. i think ...
haha... 20 years.. no way .. i think the proposed design is outta date already... the less wanky design principles the better... simple .. getting a new flag does kinda seem like giving up a bit..
"a flag is a brand"
this is most upsetting..
"a flag needs to say one thing"
this is deeply unpleasant
I know....can we get one of those flags ...
I know....can we get one of those flags with like 2 or 3 bars of colour!!!
I have always liked Bulgaria
http://www.epsaweb.org/images/bulgflag.gif
I mean its not like you'd ever confuse it for Hugary
http://www.epsaweb.org/images/hungflag.gif
that would be Hungary...not hugary...
that would be Hungary...not hugary
[ external link ]
i;ve always liked Romania's flag. ...
i;ve always liked Romania's flag. nice picture in the middle of it. looks like paradise.
maybe an all black flag... ...
maybe an all black flag... ahaha...
we'd be like pirates .. i think pirates will always be cool..
for extra scaryness one can tatter edges and put cannon ball hole thru middle
(disclaimer - no sports pun intended - shut up)
and of course....tip your head on the ...
and of course....tip your head on the side...and its Italy!!!
yay for original flags
[ http://img-b.flagspot.net/i/it.gif ]
blink, there's no fat ladies arms in ...
blink, there's no fat ladies arms in the hutt.
we have flashies, the G-mole, ROQM, and the sexchange. no fats, sadly.
You beat me to it Disasteradio ... Is ...
You beat me to it Disasteradio ... Is that the only bars we have here? Hahaha .. I've only ever stepped in 2 bars in the Hutt, one is on that list, one is not.
(Are those) the only bars we have here ...
(Are those) the only bars we have here .. that should have read. I should go back to school.
Yeah .. you beat me by a longshot.
I'd love to see a change of flag. I'm ...
I'd love to see a change of flag. I'm proud of my country but I've always felt let down by the flag for many reasons incl:
It's a formula colonial flag very close to many others. The difference between countries is only in the details.
It's not helping with the "oh NZ isn't that a state of australia?" reponse commonly encountered in the southern United States.
England is no longer 'the mother land' for the new generations of New Zealanders.It's time to cut the apron strings and allow us to express our own identity.
The current flag brings to mind images of white colonials and white explorers. I don't live in a white country.
The colour black, the silver fern and the southern cross are symbols I identity with as a New Zealander. The union jack and the colours red, white and blue belong to other nations.
(+ from a purely stylistic pov how fabulous is it to live in a country who's national colour is black!)
I don't feel strongly about it, but ...
I don't feel strongly about it, but teina your comments are enough to make me think it'd be a good idea.
I'd go with the flag Hundertwasser came up with (mentioned above) purely because I like the look and it's not a brand new design... which I think reduces the chance of the design looking faddish another couple of decades down the track.
teina definately does have some good ...
teina definately does have some good points.
but can we really ever see it happening.
It would cost Millions of taxpayers dollars.
Maori and Pakeha would never agree..(not to mention the countless other ethnicites..sp?)
odds are design would suck
Would confuse countrys internationally even more as they try to understand who this "new" country is
Would demand a reprint of hundreds of thousands of stationary and books costing me and you
Would confuse kids everywhere as they struggle to define their cultural identity.
People will still not fly it, cause we're not that type of people
Other countries will still think we are an island of Australia
at the very least...please can we stall ...
at the very least...please can we stall it at least a few years so we don't have to incorporate NZ is middle earth...or any LOTR reference into the flag.
yes black is so so cool...ehat about a ...
yes black is so so cool...ehat about a priate style flag...arrrrrr!!!! that would be boss
but for serious I think our current flag reresents bad bad bad things....the empire and all that shit
arrr, devil rider im gonna have to ...
arrr, devil rider im gonna have to charge you royalty fees for using my pirate flag idea (see above).. or you could just put my name on the door at bodega on friday
//It's a formula colonial flag very ...
//It's a formula colonial flag very close to many others.
NZ is a formula colonial country, why pretend? The difference between countries is only in the details.
//It's not helping with the "oh NZ isn't that a state of australia?"
neither is the tans-tasman tax policy
the warriors, kingz, breakers etc
ANZFA
//reponse commonly encountered in the southern United States.
no comment necessary
//England is no longer 'the mother land' for the new generations of New Zealanders.
this has always been the case
abel tasman was dutch
there have been chinese, italian, danish (you name it) here since the before the treaty was signed
//It's time to cut the apron strings and allow us to express our own identity.
we did that about 100 years ago and as far as i can tell we are still expressing our identity
//The current flag brings to mind images of white colonials and white explorers. I don't live in a white country.
Britian is not an exclusively white country, NZ has never been an exclusively white country
race should not come into this
//The colour black, the silver fern
are symbols of NZ SPORT!
//The union jack and the colours red, white and blue belong to other nations.
and though you would prefer to be an historical orphan
these are countries whose people did good work in establishing new zealand
they are part of our countries geneology and evolution
and the UNION JACK is a pretty noble thing
a symbol of the coming together of disparite (sp?) nations into one united whole
// from a purely stylistic pov how fabulous is it to live in a country who's national colour is black
yes i am pretty proud new zealand's national colour is black
that rules
but we don't need to be like ronald mcdonald and dress everything up in that colour
look at italy
national colour is blue
flag is green white and red
//but for serious I think our current ...
//but for serious I think our current flag reresents bad bad bad things....the empire and all that shit
maybe you watched too much starwars
//It's not helping with the "oh NZ ...
//It's not helping with the "oh NZ isn't that a state of australia?"
//neither is the tans-tasman tax policy
//the warriors, kingz, breakers etc
//ANZFA
These are examples of commonplace relationships between countries - what about the EEC, NATO, and the FA cup?
//we did that about 100 years ago and as far as i can tell we are still expressing our identity
Well as a New Zealander born and bred I do not feel that the flag represents my idea of a national identity. I do not feel like a colony. The union jack does not, and never will, represent me.
//The current flag brings to mind images of white colonials and white explorers. I don't live in a white country.
//Britian is not an exclusively white country
no and as you'll see , I did not say it was.
//NZ has never been an exclusively white country
that was my point
//The colour black, the silver fern
//are symbols of NZ SPORT!
yes as well as many other facets of New Zealand culture including many government departments, many significant pieces of art, many NZ based brands and goods as well as the armed forces and the natural environment
//The union jack and the colours red, white and blue belong to other nations.
//and though you would prefer to be an historical orphan these are countries whose people did good //work in establishing new zealand they are part of our countries geneology and evolution
//and the UNION JACK is a pretty noble thing a symbol of the coming together of disparite (sp?) //nations into one united whole
I do not consider myself a historical orphen - I have over 150 years of New Zealand history to draw upon. I am fiercely proud of what New Zealand has acheived in that short period of time - Hilary, Suffrage, Rutherford, nuclear-free, ANZACS, Snell, Walker, hotere, McCahon, The invincibles, Lange, Frame etc etc . I look for a flag to represent this history and to represent what Herzer will contribute in the future.