I remember you commenting before about meat being murder, Foal30, and I'm curious - are you actually an animal rights activist? Because if you are, it might pay to tone down your posts a little and leave out the Satan stuff so that you'll be taken more seriously.
Yes, yes, we know all about this rule, but it really only applies IF one is religious, and IF one belongs to a specific religion, and IF one really truly believes and follows the rules of the aforementioned religion, and doesn't just belong because everybody else they know does too. And last time I checked, eating animals was never outlawed in the bible, in fact it was widely promoted.
At least there's nothing in MY religion against eating yummy animals.
Thanks Heather, that clears it up for me & encourages me to do some research on Gnosticism.
Another thought, maybe the Colonel was the first bloke to sport a pronounced "*Flavour Saver" because his chickens "were" so finger licking good.
(*growth of hair sprouting from just below the bottom lip, noted here for the benefit of those who were fortunate enough to miss the australian idol episode where Shannon & his Australian hosts discussed it at length & in doing so influenced me to shave mine off. )
Point taken J. curious though, is any opinion worthless because its within a religious or dogmatic framework? if so where you force fed science at school? or is that belief structure somehow exempt?if people are turned off from " the message" because of preconceived ideas on the belifes/morals/worship of the messenger then I assume that no level of disscussion or "facts" will persuade those individuals from listening and checking the issue being disscused. The explotation of animals is so throughly engrained in society that I am considered an "activist " or "radical" solely on my diet or clothing. Which i might add is just another appalling indictment on our supposdly free, scientific and capitilist "civilization"
I think velocity's point wasn't that your opinion is worthless because it falls inside a religious framework, but that your wording implies the adherence to multiple religions whose belief structures are contradictory. The religions that believe that killing animals is tantamount to murder don't believe in satan, and the ones that believe in satan allow you to eat meat.
its not just you Irieman. theirs at least 300000 chilian mothers who lost their children under General Pinochet. their is a growing body of evidence to suggest that US business intrests funded the 1973 coup. two reguarly identified offenders, at&T and Pepsi-Cola [owners of KFC]. surprisingly I didnt come to believe this by reading the BIBLE.
It's a theory I've heard a lot of, this 'we are the greatest so we are responsible for everything'. There's a whole argument about whether we are animals that I'm not really wanting to investigate here, but my view is that just because I have been born into a dominant species, I shouldn't feel bound to purge all animal instinct from my body.
Responsibility, ethics and 'civilised' society are all intangibles (to some extent or another) that are just constructs of our more conscious levels of thought.
I'm sure you're not advocating thrusting our form of society upon hapless animals, are you? If you get away from our comfortable little insular lives, it's the law of the fucking jungle and we don't have the power to dictate what aspects of human community wild animals adopt, even if we so desired. A bull may thank me for my vegetarianism and intelligence in not confining it to death - all the while fatally gorging me for walking too close to its territory.
Sorry if my post wasnt clear Jimi, I wasnt advocating giving cattle the vote or drivers license. Mind you they might like being chaffured whist reclining on the seat manufacted from the hide of an unfortunate human. As sentinent beings we can and should make decisions for the betterment of all species, I fail to see how eating animals fits into this dogma/credo/belief structure.Yes its a horrendous world at times, ideas for improvement always welcome.Apologies for any offence caused.
I don't actually like any part of the bible - those quotes came from a webpage that was linked to in another topic here - a mock christian take on the badness of LOTR etc etc.
Good morning heather, i was replying to jo, as for velocitys post, beliving cos all your friends do is bad, so opting out of science at school was obviously an option for them. things are right/wrong depending on religious beliefs, I was sorting hoping humanity could progress beyond killing things cos where too lazy,stupid,evil to work on the problem/issue. Regardless of ones "Spirtual/Religious" belief structure.Peace and Love, and remember God loves a trier.
Ah, I assumed you were responding to velo, because I didn't read Jo's comment as a swipe at religion, just a swipe at hyperbole.
As for the whole eating animals issue, I don't actually think it's a symptom of man's evil/lazy ways. I absolutely condemn the inhumane treatment of animals while they're alive, but I don't have a problem with them being killed for food. As such I think that whether or not it's ok to kill animals is probably more associated with the particular moral code to which you adhere; and that's usually modelled on a particular existing religion since it involves certain assumptions about the spirit nature of animals.
...ummm, so my point was that opinions based on religion aren't invalid, but just it's pretty difficult to establish them as fact. If you want to stop the world eating meat, it's probably easier to do that by pushing the quantifiable economic benefits than by trying to explain to people why it's morally wrong.
Believe it or not, there are a few people in the Christian church that believe it's immoral to be vegetarian. I don't agree with them, but just thought you'd be interested.
Yeah, it was a swipe at the hyperbole. In my experience and learning, if you're trying to convince someone to change their ways, you have to place your arguement as close to what they already believe as possible, so if I was to go on a veganism crusade, I would start by talking about the conditions that chickens are generally kept in in New Zealand. I believe that it would be easier to believe in how horrible it is to be kept in a tiny little box than it is to believe that Satan wants you to eat meat, for example.
//Believe it or not, there are a few people in the Christian church that believe it's immoral to be vegetarian. I don't agree with them, but just thought you'd be interested.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils . . . commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth" (1 Timothy 4:1-3).
“For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs” (Romans 14:2).
Its hyperbole because you dont agree with it. if you did you wouldnt recognize it as such.
Yes if its making more money its a good thing. Theirs nothing like bribery to open peoples minds.
The arguement is that their is good and bad and that you personally can do something about it. improving animal Welfare is a small step that anyone can take.
I like the Bible quotes, do you like the part of men having dominion over the woman? woman being listed next to animals of course. Individual interpretation is a wonderful thing. Most dictionarys list dominion as partnership, being kept in a cage , fattened on steriods, polluted with antibiotics, debeaked, declawed, then having your throat slit cos Im to tired to run a vege garden sounds like partnership. and to all you seculars/atheists , if where all animals/spiritless/ whats wrong with cannabilism. The beef you eat probably was force fed its own sister. bird flu, resistance to antibiotics, CJD, increasingly early age of pueberty onset in high protein/fat nations, all accountable to the explotation of animals, the butchers , tortures and polluters who you freely give your money too. pound o' flesh anyone?
//if where all animals/spiritless/ whats wrong with cannabilism.
We are the top of the food chain (well, within most environments anyway). And the avoidance of cannibalism is something I call an evolutionarily acquired species survival mechanism - cool eh. But I am all for humane treatment while they're alive.
re: top o' food chain. Care to list what other forms of explotation are ok with you Jimi? misogony, homophobia, slavery, vivisection, racism? Might never has and never will make right. Unless thats george w. your cheerleading for.in fact its surely the task of the most resourced, influential to better the development of others. charity, community, tolerance, cornerstones of a peaceful society and their will surely be no peace until such rights are conveyed onto the animal kingdom.
No not cool at all K. Seen the footage of the chickens? wondering where these "un-natural" diseases are coming from? anyone remember Sars/ Ebola/cjd? why anti biotics arnt working? time for people to re-visit their shopping lists.
ill let u all in on a little secret - KFC Uses Tegel Chickens, thats right Healthy Barn raised 100% New Zealand Chicken, and how do i know all this?? The Tegel truck frequently does errands to the U/H branch.
Ah beg to differ sam. its cage chook for colnel satan and tegal here in chch are apparntly only signing staff on 3 month tempory contracts, and charging staff for damage in workplace/production line.Im also reasonbly confident that not all sites buy from tegal, Santa rosa is one name that come up recently. the tegal driver may be delivery boy for 4 or 5 frozen contractors{ ie Transotway].
No customers done south Christianity? excuse me while i get my hanky, 25 million birds slaughtered as "quarintine " measure already. the lesson is explicit, you reap what you sow, and the blood from this shambles means a very bitter harvest.
Hell no, Mcmurder and Colnel satan are advertising revune. expect NBC to annonunce" we are 100% owned by General Electric, proud makers of nuclear weapons since 1954"? if it wasnt over there it wouldnt be on the strictly impartial western media at all.
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as long as it doesnt mutate or the ...
as long as it doesnt mutate or the actual "bird flu" reaches new zealand poultry then im sound as a pound.
id be more concerned about meningococcial disease otherwise.
i mean DOESNT reach New Zealand Poultry....
i mean DOESNT reach New Zealand Poultry.
God is punishing the heathens and ...
God is punishing the heathens and agents of satan for their barbourous treatment of animals. its obvious, THOU SHALL NOT MURDER
I remember you commenting before about ...
I remember you commenting before about meat being murder, Foal30, and I'm curious - are you actually an animal rights activist? Because if you are, it might pay to tone down your posts a little and leave out the Satan stuff so that you'll be taken more seriously.
Is it me, or does Colonel Harland ...
Is it me, or does Colonel Harland Sanders look like Satan.?
//its obvious, THOU SHALL NOT ...
//its obvious, THOU SHALL NOT MURDER
Yes, yes, we know all about this rule, but it really only applies IF one is religious, and IF one belongs to a specific religion, and IF one really truly believes and follows the rules of the aforementioned religion, and doesn't just belong because everybody else they know does too. And last time I checked, eating animals was never outlawed in the bible, in fact it was widely promoted.
At least there's nothing in MY religion against eating yummy animals.
//Is it me, or does Colonel Harland ...
//Is it me, or does Colonel Harland Sanders look like Satan.?
Nah, he's actually the masculine aspect of God - haven't you seen The Matrix?
Thanks Heather, that clears it up for ...
Thanks Heather, that clears it up for me & encourages me to do some research on Gnosticism.
Another thought, maybe the Colonel was the first bloke to sport a pronounced "*Flavour Saver" because his chickens "were" so finger licking good.
(*growth of hair sprouting from just below the bottom lip, noted here for the benefit of those who were fortunate enough to miss the australian idol episode where Shannon & his Australian hosts discussed it at length & in doing so influenced me to shave mine off. )
Point taken J. curious though, is any ...
Point taken J. curious though, is any opinion worthless because its within a religious or dogmatic framework? if so where you force fed science at school? or is that belief structure somehow exempt?if people are turned off from " the message" because of preconceived ideas on the belifes/morals/worship of the messenger then I assume that no level of disscussion or "facts" will persuade those individuals from listening and checking the issue being disscused. The explotation of animals is so throughly engrained in society that I am considered an "activist " or "radical" solely on my diet or clothing. Which i might add is just another appalling indictment on our supposdly free, scientific and capitilist "civilization"
I think velocity's point wasn't that ...
I think velocity's point wasn't that your opinion is worthless because it falls inside a religious framework, but that your wording implies the adherence to multiple religions whose belief structures are contradictory. The religions that believe that killing animals is tantamount to murder don't believe in satan, and the ones that believe in satan allow you to eat meat.
Bloody hell, that was wordy....
Bloody hell, that was wordy.
its not just you Irieman. theirs at ...
its not just you Irieman. theirs at least 300000 chilian mothers who lost their children under General Pinochet. their is a growing body of evidence to suggest that US business intrests funded the 1973 coup. two reguarly identified offenders, at&T and Pepsi-Cola [owners of KFC]. surprisingly I didnt come to believe this by reading the BIBLE.
It's a theory I've heard a lot of, ...
It's a theory I've heard a lot of, this 'we are the greatest so we are responsible for everything'. There's a whole argument about whether we are animals that I'm not really wanting to investigate here, but my view is that just because I have been born into a dominant species, I shouldn't feel bound to purge all animal instinct from my body.
Responsibility, ethics and 'civilised' society are all intangibles (to some extent or another) that are just constructs of our more conscious levels of thought.
I'm sure you're not advocating thrusting our form of society upon hapless animals, are you? If you get away from our comfortable little insular lives, it's the law of the fucking jungle and we don't have the power to dictate what aspects of human community wild animals adopt, even if we so desired. A bull may thank me for my vegetarianism and intelligence in not confining it to death - all the while fatally gorging me for walking too close to its territory.
Sorry if my post wasnt clear Jimi, I ...
Sorry if my post wasnt clear Jimi, I wasnt advocating giving cattle the vote or drivers license. Mind you they might like being chaffured whist reclining on the seat manufacted from the hide of an unfortunate human. As sentinent beings we can and should make decisions for the betterment of all species, I fail to see how eating animals fits into this dogma/credo/belief structure.Yes its a horrendous world at times, ideas for improvement always welcome.Apologies for any offence caused.
Hey man, no worries. I see your ...
Hey man, no worries. I see your point(s) but I don't agree. I just love honing my craft.
I don't actually like any part of the ...
I don't actually like any part of the bible - those quotes came from a webpage that was linked to in another topic here - a mock christian take on the badness of LOTR etc etc.
//does Colonel Harland Sanders look ...
//does Colonel Harland Sanders look like Satan.?
Or he could be Nick Cave from the movie Johnny Suede...
Good morning heather, i was replying to ...
Good morning heather, i was replying to jo, as for velocitys post, beliving cos all your friends do is bad, so opting out of science at school was obviously an option for them. things are right/wrong depending on religious beliefs, I was sorting hoping humanity could progress beyond killing things cos where too lazy,stupid,evil to work on the problem/issue. Regardless of ones "Spirtual/Religious" belief structure.Peace and Love, and remember God loves a trier.
Ah, I assumed you were responding to ...
Ah, I assumed you were responding to velo, because I didn't read Jo's comment as a swipe at religion, just a swipe at hyperbole.
As for the whole eating animals issue, I don't actually think it's a symptom of man's evil/lazy ways. I absolutely condemn the inhumane treatment of animals while they're alive, but I don't have a problem with them being killed for food. As such I think that whether or not it's ok to kill animals is probably more associated with the particular moral code to which you adhere; and that's usually modelled on a particular existing religion since it involves certain assumptions about the spirit nature of animals.
...ummm, so my point was that opinions ...
...ummm, so my point was that opinions based on religion aren't invalid, but just it's pretty difficult to establish them as fact. If you want to stop the world eating meat, it's probably easier to do that by pushing the quantifiable economic benefits than by trying to explain to people why it's morally wrong.
Believe it or not, there are a few people in the Christian church that believe it's immoral to be vegetarian. I don't agree with them, but just thought you'd be interested.
Yeah, it was a swipe at the hyperbole. ...
Yeah, it was a swipe at the hyperbole. In my experience and learning, if you're trying to convince someone to change their ways, you have to place your arguement as close to what they already believe as possible, so if I was to go on a veganism crusade, I would start by talking about the conditions that chickens are generally kept in in New Zealand. I believe that it would be easier to believe in how horrible it is to be kept in a tiny little box than it is to believe that Satan wants you to eat meat, for example.
//Believe it or not, there are a few ...
//Believe it or not, there are a few people in the Christian church that believe it's immoral to be vegetarian. I don't agree with them, but just thought you'd be interested.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils . . . commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth" (1 Timothy 4:1-3).
“For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs” (Romans 14:2).
//“For one believeth that he may eat ...
//“For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs” (Romans 14:2).
Is this why United Future party does not like the Greens.? :) Yeah, Okay I know.
Its hyperbole because you dont agree ...
Its hyperbole because you dont agree with it. if you did you wouldnt recognize it as such.
Yes if its making more money its a good thing. Theirs nothing like bribery to open peoples minds.
The arguement is that their is good and bad and that you personally can do something about it. improving animal Welfare is a small step that anyone can take.
I like the Bible quotes, do you like the part of men having dominion over the woman? woman being listed next to animals of course. Individual interpretation is a wonderful thing. Most dictionarys list dominion as partnership, being kept in a cage , fattened on steriods, polluted with antibiotics, debeaked, declawed, then having your throat slit cos Im to tired to run a vege garden sounds like partnership. and to all you seculars/atheists , if where all animals/spiritless/ whats wrong with cannabilism. The beef you eat probably was force fed its own sister. bird flu, resistance to antibiotics, CJD, increasingly early age of pueberty onset in high protein/fat nations, all accountable to the explotation of animals, the butchers , tortures and polluters who you freely give your money too. pound o' flesh anyone?
//if where all animals/spiritless/ ...
//if where all animals/spiritless/ whats wrong with cannabilism.
We are the top of the food chain (well, within most environments anyway). And the avoidance of cannibalism is something I call an evolutionarily acquired species survival mechanism - cool eh. But I am all for humane treatment while they're alive.
re: top o' food chain. Care to list ...
re: top o' food chain. Care to list what other forms of explotation are ok with you Jimi? misogony, homophobia, slavery, vivisection, racism? Might never has and never will make right. Unless thats george w. your cheerleading for.in fact its surely the task of the most resourced, influential to better the development of others. charity, community, tolerance, cornerstones of a peaceful society and their will surely be no peace until such rights are conveyed onto the animal kingdom.
i thought only women got it? (sorry)...
i thought only women got it?
(sorry)
Like, its a chick thing??...
Like, its a chick thing??
it was a terrible joke....
it was a terrible joke.
it's ok...
it's ok
cos birds of a feather flock together...
cos birds of a feather flock together
& then there's the one about two in ...
& then there's the one about two in the bush.
Or one flu over the cuckoos nest...
Or one flu over the cuckoos nest
There is a slight SHINGLES warning ...
There is a slight SHINGLES warning around the workplace..hows that for diseases, sickness ailments.
Whatever this Bird Flu I hope it dissolves.
I was watching the news, and some ...
I was watching the news, and some experts were saying that if the bird flu mutates, it may kill people into the 10s of millions.
Not cool. Not cool at all.
No not cool at all K. Seen the footage ...
No not cool at all K. Seen the footage of the chickens? wondering where these "un-natural" diseases are coming from? anyone remember Sars/ Ebola/cjd? why anti biotics arnt working? time for people to re-visit their shopping lists.
did they all come from the same ...
did they all come from the same place?
it's just another storm in a tea cup
more people die of the flu every year than ever dies from any of these disease
//experts were saying that if the bird ...
//experts were saying that if the bird flu mutates, it may kill people into the 10s of millions.
yeh i reckon it will make the 1918 epidemic seem like a picnic in the park
the what?...
the what?
bird flu some kind of chicken ...
bird flu
some kind of chicken disease
only way you're gonna get it is if you eat a diseased birds
chances of death (if you don't eat birds) 0%
people first died from it in 1997...
people first died from it in 1997
think KFC would be happy if // chance ...
think KFC would be happy if // chance of death 0% // was issued as public health warning Christianity?
ha ha i live across the road from ...
ha ha i live across the road from kfc
and business dropped off completely yesterday
so i don't think they gonna be happy at all
ill let u all in on a little secret - ...
ill let u all in on a little secret - KFC Uses Tegel Chickens, thats right Healthy Barn raised 100% New Zealand Chicken, and how do i know all this?? The Tegel truck frequently does errands to the U/H branch.
kfc in china doesn't use tegal chickens...
kfc in china doesn't use tegal chickens
Ah beg to differ sam. its cage chook ...
Ah beg to differ sam. its cage chook for colnel satan and tegal here in chch are apparntly only signing staff on 3 month tempory contracts, and charging staff for damage in workplace/production line.Im also reasonbly confident that not all sites buy from tegal, Santa rosa is one name that come up recently. the tegal driver may be delivery boy for 4 or 5 frozen contractors{ ie Transotway].
No customers done south Christianity? excuse me while i get my hanky, 25 million birds slaughtered as "quarintine " measure already. the lesson is explicit, you reap what you sow, and the blood from this shambles means a very bitter harvest.
Is this gonna be another thing that the ...
Is this gonna be another thing that the media competely overhypes like SARS?
Hell no, Mcmurder and Colnel satan are ...
Hell no, Mcmurder and Colnel satan are advertising revune. expect NBC to annonunce" we are 100% owned by General Electric, proud makers of nuclear weapons since 1954"? if it wasnt over there it wouldnt be on the strictly impartial western media at all.