// when izzy left... perhaps then they should have called it a day.

that's just plain fuckin stupid son.

no, I'm saying there's no way they should have called it quits when izzy left. Gilby was fine for rhythm, plus teh core of the band was still there.

Its called keep going regardless if one of the best members have left.
The buck doesn't stop here. Resilience to make it to the top. Picture yourself being that member who left/died..surely you would want your group to continue unless there was an existing falling out. Still, keeping on earns respect in the long run & success always comes after hard work.

Simply what I mean is that when you're a group & some member leaves - isn't it because they either passed away or made that choice on their own or even got kicked out (whatever reason!) - then surely a group really needs to focus on continuation rather than stopping because some member could not agree or whatever reason. In the end what Im implying indefinitely is that if you keep on doing what you love (individual member) then its all good isn't it. (!?!??)

what brah? from memory he left around teh time the albums were released, and you're saying they should have called it quits then? No, they needed to promote the album. Hence, they needed Gilby Clarke. Infact, with the addition of teh extra musicians, they were a musically superior band.

//what! the beatles last album is fucking masterpiece.....then they stopped.Let It BE was recorded before Abbey but released post-humously, and it is fine (accross the universe is awesome)

no complaints with those albums

went over these hot coals further down the thread
they were THE band who new when to stop until 'free as a bird' 'real love'

same with the doors
most stuff with jim is cool
but when they get together and play live gigs as 'the doors' without jim it's wrong
as with queen
inxs, etc

your NUTS MAN!

i like free as a bird & real love- they make me cry- so does jim morrison- with laughter- ¿people actually considered him to be good with words?- pompous asshole- john densmore was a better drummer than jim was a poet singer combined- goes for the rest of the band too

are those the original naked john lennon demo versions that make you cry?

or the souped up, processed, unauthorised, versions

you don't have to be a great poet to make rock and roll
the best thing about jim was his rockin spirit

what has use your illusion got to do with anything
he was in the band

i think blowing your brains out is a slightly extreme way of stopping!
especially for a musical legend who would have undoubtedly made a few more amazing albums before getting bored of the music.

it wasn't kurt, it was the gun.

//What a nice thing to say...I would like to insult you, in very mean ways.

Please, feel free. I loved Nirvana, I still do. I was one of those 14 year old girls who cried when I found out he died (and I can still remember where i was when I found out - I think he was supposed to be my generation's Kennedy, until the whole 9/11 thing surpassed it), I think grunge music changed my life for the better and etc etc. I know my comment was rather facetious and over the top, but I do also think it's true. I think one of the many contributing factors in his suicide was probably that he felt like he couldn't go on making music - "it's better to burn out than to fade away" and all. I like Courtney's take better though - it's better to rise than fade away.

on the whole these are good examples of people who knew when not to stop

add Iron Maiden to that list, will their music style ever change??

i have never been more serious

//At once you seem incredibly insular, sanctionist (music wise) yet capitalist to the extreme.

thanks,

//A band should throw in the towel cos a major doesn't want them? Where the fuck is there any integrity in that?

where the fuck is the integrity in pop music?

the integrity is in knowing your product is not working, going back to the drawing board to come up with something new rather than flogging something which is dead.

let me know when you find that pop music star who doesn't sell product

oh
you are one of these people that doesn't believe in paying musicians for their hard work
i bet you rinse tons of mp3s of the internet

maybe you should think more about the musicians for a change and the contribution they make
rather than stealing their inspiration because you have an issue with the fact they are trying to sell it

//music is art buddy...art should be about creation, release, personally

I believe Art is 100% a value placed on creativity by the audience
sure you can say it's art
but it ain't art until someone not involved in the process recognises it's artistic merit
that's why we have the commonly acknowledged distinction between art and craft

//its not always JUST art. .
//It is also valid to be a 'commercial' artist.

//I just take issue with your insinuation that if a band isn't on a major label, it isn't really 'successful' in any way.

i didn't intend to make that insinuation, many of my favourite bands have never and will never be on a major label
i only said 'if a band gets dropped from a major label'
because there are two reasons for this
firstly the band has been successful and stopped selling enough records because there fan base has dwindled because their music is no longer relevant. ie to what people are looking for in music. (eg mariah)

secondly we have bands who got signed but their first album crashed and burned( for whatever reason).
sometimes this is bad promotion, sometimes this is an over ambitious band signing their lives away to a major regardless of their compatibility with the labels target audience
now i don't think anyone should give up music
but if this happens to a band
i think it's time to stop and start again
either change the name, line up, image, sound
and seriously rethink if the band is worth the financial cost of major label investment
(eg (and don't hate me) anika moa)

because we are all someone's bitch, and sometimes it's better to be the bitch of that loyal sausage dog than that dribbly old daschound (sp?)

//music is about two people
the musician and the audience
if the audience ain't buying it (metaphorically)
then what is the point?//

I think thats pretty much the whole ball game right there.

I mean much respect Devil Rider, but its not always JUST art. Surely its a fairly broad spectrum, with the old tension of art and commerce.

It is also valid to be a 'commercial' artist. Understanding your audience and delivering an experience they desire. There is nothing wrong with that, as much as there is nothing wrong with pure artistic integrity (a total myth, I say).

Also, thats the great thing about music. Sometimes the most commercial intentions produce a universally loved piece of musical art. TV jingles anyone?

Chris, I just take issue with your insinuation that if a band isn't on a major label, it isn't really 'successful' in any way.

//we are all someone's bitch whether we can admit it or not
//hell i didn't make the world
Fair enough...

// some of those comments were taking the piss...

That's what I thought, which is why I asked in the first place. The whole 'i have never been more serious' thing threw me off just a tad.