Hey, i'm just curious about how much the average band gets paid for doin a regular gig (not gigs like at the temple etc. where you set a door fee etc. cause that varies and depends how many people you bring along)
my bands gona be getting paid gigs at various venues around auckland, just small/medium sized pubs.
if i said to the bar manager 'ball park figure' whats is that on average?
i've got a fair idea.. but if your a gigging band what do you bring in on average per night and how long do ya play?
cheers!
-Dave
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$15 - 20,000 plus medical and free ...
$15 - 20,000 plus medical and free parking
you forgot meals & drinks!!...
you forgot meals & drinks!!
Well usually in the ol days, when doing ...
Well usually in the ol days, when doing gis like that kinda buzz, you'd be looking for somewhere between $80-100 per person for the night depending on how long the gig is. Try and get a figure that you use as your default for a certain amount of time, and then adjust accordingly to suit individual gig requirements.
$250 seems to be the default, for a ...
$250 seems to be the default, for a main act band who will play for 50 minutes or more. sometimes that will get split between the support act and the main act, depending on the frugality of the venue, but sometimes (especially if it's tour and venues are expected to take travel-accommodation-etc into account) both support and main acts will get $250 each.
for smaller venues, i'd expect around 150 - 200, with perhaps some sort of beer rider / meals thrown in. and of course it all depends on what night it is - venues cover their costs better on Thursdays - Saturdays, or fixed-price pint nights ... so are willing to pay nearer the we-are-touring-please-feed $250 mark.
paid!????? maybe a fifty bag if ...
paid!?????
maybe a fifty bag if you're lucky
bring on the free piss! ta for the ...
bring on the free piss!
ta for the replies, what you guys said was pretty much what i thought,
in aussie that seemed to be the standard thing to..
first place were playing at is the birdcage, anyone been there or even played there?
Ahhhh yeas, the good old days. "Hey ...
Ahhhh yeas, the good old days.
"Hey bro, wanna play our gig?"
"Yeah bro, choice, how much does it pay?"
"Well, we can't afford to pay you, but we gots heaps of kegs!"
Ahhh the good ol days
Not sure if you are an originals or a ...
Not sure if you are an originals or a covers band but I recently used to play in a covers band and used to get paid anywhere between $600-$800 a night. Depends of course how many people are in your band but it seems like the fees is getting lower as more bands try and get exposure and basically do anything to get their foot in the door.
yeah mate, a lil cash and free piss for ...
yeah mate, a lil cash and free piss for doin what ya love? hell yeah!
thats pretty damn good, we should do allright as i get along with one of the managers quite well, she heard our demo (originals) and really liked our stuff and was keen to have us play originals (which is always an advantage), but we'll make it a good mix of originals and covers
[ http://www.heartoffifths.com ]
When I played in Head Like a Hole and ...
When I played in Head Like a Hole and we opened for Metallica in 1998 we each got our own rider - one of my requests was a beer hat (you know the ones, a can either side) and a leg of ham, and they came through. What a good bunch of bastards.
you were brave opening for metallica, ...
you were brave opening for metallica, i'm guessing you got to meet them? pretty sweet dude.
bloody nice of them to pull through on a few requests too, not a lot of big bands would be so generous..
//When I played in Head Like a ...
//When I played in Head Like a Hole
Huh? Which one were you, Koe?
i think he played teenage fantasy :P...
i think he played teenage fantasy :P
Yeah we got to meet them briefly and ...
Yeah we got to meet them briefly and have a beer (which was a bit weird because I think James had just come out of rehab, or maybe he went into it after that, I can't remember)
I was the bass player at that stage
Ah Tallbeast, do you still have that ...
Ah Tallbeast, do you still have that Golini Thunderbird?
hows the mountain biking going??? and ...
hows the mountain biking going???
and when did you dye your hair orange ;)
mannnn you didn't seem that tall when i met you at punkfest...
i guess 6 ft 4 ain't that much taller than 6ft...
we got $20 and a Jage each for our ...
we got $20 and a Jage each for our first gig. Yay Yayeee!!
This is mainly directed at iluvtheclean ...
This is mainly directed at iluvtheclean and mking, for their Dunedin/covers band knowledge, but feel free to chime in anyone. With regards to the PA for a covers band at a pub/club, who is responsible for the PA and equipment? Obviously you will provide instruments and the like for yourself, but what's the normal practice - you get money from them to pay for the PA, they provide one for you, or it just comes out of your regular payment until you're committed enough to fork out for your own?
don't know about the rest of the ...
don't know about the rest of the country, but in Dunners it's often subsidised - ask and the venue will often put something towards it. that's only covers bands though, and a lot of the established covers-venues in the hot-D already have a basic (at least vocals) PA.
when it comes to original stuff, more often than not the venue has a PA with more grunt and charge nowt. except *sometimes* they'll keep all their nice microphones and WORKING cables elsewhere, until you are their friend, or until you shag them ... well, i jest - until they can trust you - venues get ripped off for stuff like that, stuff that just walks out through the door. Onanon has a magic bag of microphones and cables for such an emergency, and we use it all the time. All The Time. and we know our own gear and know it works. it doesn't even have to be nice gear - sometimes it's a matter of just having something that works.
So it's up to you to organise it ...
So it's up to you to organise it thoguh? whoa craaaaaaaazy . Ye s you organise it. Sweet.
Sorry, Cleanie, what I mean earlier ...
Sorry, Cleanie, what I mean earlier this morning was "Cheers for the advice, much appreciated." *shakes head at over-indulgence in general*
haw haw! you was thinking out loud! ...
haw haw! you was thinking out loud! but on the net! that's pretty damned cool, actually. better than what goes on in my head ... when overindulging etc.
about $80-$100 each is pretty much the ...
about $80-$100 each is pretty much the standard in cover bands I've been in
It doesn't matter weither we play ...
It doesn't matter weither we play covers or originals we still charge out at the same rate, and variables have to be added in such as accomadation, PA hire etc our base fee is $600-$800+gst per night for an out of town gig and $400-$600 for a local.
Usually the first time you go to a new venue you have to take what they'll pay you though, then when you've proven that you can entertain a crowd and keep them in the bar they'll pay what you ask, some smaller venues will have a ceiling limit to what they can pay because they don't make as much over the bar.
Remember even if you are playing covers there is still a lot of work involved in getting to a gig ready stage, maintenance of equipment, practice time, phone calls, travel, etc so don't sell yourselves short by charging too little, always ask what the venue capacity is and if they have their own PA before you give them a price, it's worth owning a medium sized (600-1000 watts)vocal PA of your own as you can get a lot more gigs and save yourself hire fees, and when you're not using it you can hire it out to other bands.
Most venues will pay by cheque these days so get GST registered or they'll take 20% withholding tax off before they pay (it's a legal requirement and IRD will chase venues about it if they don't).
this is a rough guide for how we work out our costings.
100-250 people capacity: PA provided= $3-$5 per head no PA $4-$6 per head
250+ capacity $4 per head All prices are gst exclusive.
if the venue is doing a door charge we sometimes do a base rate of $300 + 50% of the door but this only works in a venue that you know you can pull a crowd to.
//Most venues will pay by cheque these ...
//Most venues will pay by cheque these days so get GST registered or they'll take 20% withholding tax off before they pay (it's a legal requirement and IRD will chase venues about it if they don't).
What the fuck? Please explain more... additionally I would've thought many bars would be happy to pay by cash, under the table, does this not really happen?
your right to question this one jimi ...
your right to question this one jimi -
to my knowledge (limited by small brain) gst and income tax are totally seperate things. taking withholding tax has nothing to do with gst. plus - you dont need to be gst registered if you earn under like 35k or something.. if youre not gst reqistered then you just dont charge gst ontop of your bill.. but income tax is totally seperate... im sure noizy with materialize and tell me im a fool.. but this has been my experience in any case
who works for ird here? and can shed some light
If your band is set up as a company ...
If your band is set up as a company then you will probably need to register for gst (if you think your "company"is going to earn squillions). As a company you will need to keep up with the paperwork such as issuing invoices to pubs for your services, and anything remotely musically related such as strings, sticks, can be written off against the company. At the end of each financial year, you will have "leftover income" which the company will need to declare and pay tax on.
Hence pubs usually don't want to fart around with all that and just pay cash out of the till.
As for income tax, you will need to declare your earnings and withholding tax will need to be paid at the end of the financial year, assuming you fill out a tax return. If we are only talking about a few gigs during the year, forget it. If we are talking quite a bit of money, you will probably need to declare it.
Of course this is a very simplistic answer and there is a lot more involved to it.
Just take the cash in hand on offer...........
As I understand it if the cheque (and a ...
As I understand it if the cheque (and a lot of places will only pay by cheque) is made out in an individuals name the payer is obliged to deduct (and pay to the IRD) 20% Resident Witholding Tax.
On the other hand if the band forms a company and provides the venue with an invoice then the venue doesn't deduct withholding tax. The company simply declares the income on their annual tax return and any tax to be paid is calculated then. Whether the company is registered for GST is a separate issue entirely. You don't have to be GST registered if the company annual income is less than, I think, $40k (I am pretty sure the threshold went up a while ago). If you are registerd for GST then you charge the venue your fee + 12.5% GST. You then declare this on your GST return.
GST can be a bit of a pain but as long as you keep good records you are OK usually.
I think it is important that bands seriously consider setting up a company to work behind. It provides some real advantages, particularly if you actually start to make some money ... heaven forbid. But more importantly it means that the company shareholders and directors are not personally liable. So if as a result of an over enthusiastic performance the crowd trashes the venue the individual band members are not liable, only the company. That means your personal assets are safe from creditors etc.
It is easy and cheap to set up a company (Credit Card and Internet) and getting an IRD number for the company is easy. The comapnies office and IRD websites have plenty of good info on this.
I recommend a proper company rather than a partnership. In a partnership the individuals are still personally liable for debts etc.
Sweet. If I can get this straight.... ...
Sweet. If I can get this straight.... say I was in a covers band that played a club every Wed night, and made $400 bucks between 4 members, and the place pays cash - we just take it. If we're earning under 40K (each person...?) we don't have to declare gst. but we have to pay 20% tax at the end of the year. Despite it being 'illegal', what's to stop me from not declaring my earnings and avoiding tax... a hundred bucks a week or so could come from any number of sources and is the IRD really going after small fish?
In the same situation but where the venue wants to pay by cheque, they will take the 20% off before they pay you. So you will end up getting $320 for the night if you negotiate 400.
Wrong? Right?.........
// im sure noizy with materialize and ...
// im sure noizy with materialize and tell me im a fool
ahaha. this is honestly one of the areas I can say I have virtually no knowledge about. I throw my invoices and a few facts and figures at my accountant throughout the year, and he magically rustles up an income tax return for me. both my bands are companies, and we're pretty scrupulous about keeping the books up to date, but, again, someone else does the paperwork.
but yes, from my little experience with it, it's well worth getting both the company and GST bits'n'bobs sorted out. if, like most nz bands you're running at a loss (or paying GST for various things), you can get a reasonable amount of that back come tax time.
I think stu's covered it pretty well, and like he says, hit the relevant websites for more info - it's all online.
They isn't anything to stop you from ...
They isn't anything to stop you from not declaring your income. However, if it comes back to bite you on the arse then you would have to be pretty unlucky.
Agreed with the others, if you are getting regular work set up a company, make sure you have good records and you should be sweet. Remember you can deduct heaps of stuff to reduce your overall company tax, all your strings, promotional work, travel costs, dinner etc.
Pubs should deduct the 20% witholding tax before you receive a cheque payment, but more often than not a band doesn't negotiate a fee that way. I would say that if you receive $400 by cheque then you would deduct it yourself at the end of the year.
Cheers - if they pay by cheque it would ...
Cheers - if they pay by cheque it would be much harder to be a tax cheat yourself and not declare, wouldn't it, because the venue would include it as an official cost of the business with the IRD....?
Sorry dude, (Jimi) I wasn't very clear ...
Sorry dude, (Jimi) I wasn't very clear when I mentioned the Tax?gst thing.
The reason I brought it up was that we got stung by IRD one year, we weren't GST registered and were having withholding tax deducted, but because we were operating as a Joint Venture and taking drawings (income) from our earnings as seperate individuals we should have been paying income tax individually on top of the withholding tax, it all gets rather complicated but for us it was easier to have a gst number and sort out income tax etc later.
If you ring the IRD they have a really good service available to advize you the best way to deal with it, they'll even help you set up your taxation systems, also the best thing you can do for yourselves is get a good accountant, it doesn't cost as much as you may think, and it's tax deductable along with a huge number of other things that you wouldn't believe, on average I get back between $1200-$1800 per year in rebates and my Accountant takes his fee out of that (usually about $350) so in effect the ird pay for my accountancy fees.
I strongly suggest you keep reciepts for EVERYTHING, as well as log book of al;l your travel expenses, an old show box will do, but try and keep it all in order it makes it cheaper if your accountant doesn't have to go through and sort things out, make a log of all phone calls you make on behalf of the band, get and keep reciepts for every single little thing that you do which in any remote way relates to the band.
Sounds like a lot of fiddling around, but if you're serious about being a working musician you have to realise that you are effectivly a small business and you have to treat it the same way you would any other business, and if you want it to succeed make business plans, revenue projections, mission statements etc, and set goals, review them, make them short term, medium term and long term and keep at it.
In response to Jimi - yep - the ...
In response to Jimi - yep - the pub/venue would declare the full cheque amount to the band so should the IRD ask where the money has gone to they would check would were the recipients of that payment.
And yep to samflux, witholding tax is another way of paying your income tax.
withholding tax is another way of ...
withholding tax is another way of paying income tax, but it only comes off the person whose ird number you are using, the reason we got stung is that we used my ird number (which is legal) but then we took drawings from the business ie, an income or wage if you like, and as such we each should have been paying PAYE tax, as well as ACC levies etc.
Best thing to do, as i've said before, is talk to an accountant, it will cost you a little bit, but save you so much.
Just a quick reply in relation to what ...
Just a quick reply in relation to what BigStu said about Companies and Partnerships, yes partners are liable for collective debts etc, but if you want to avoid that scenario without the hassle of setting up a company, talk to your accountant about becoming a joint venture, it doesn't have a lot of the benefits of being a company but it does cover your arse as far as debt goes, it means that each individual is liable only for their own debts and not the collective debts etc, you'll need to talk to an accountant to find out the best options. it cost a little but it'll save so much shit later.
//should have been paying income tax ...
//should have been paying income tax individually on top of the withholding tax,
wooo.. ok this is getting scarier...
# gst is different to income tax
# withholding tax is a way of paying income tax
right?
such confusion, were artists not ...
such confusion, were artists not accountants! :-)
but i get what you's are all saying, even my boss (my day job) suggested i get GST registered and an IRD number for the band.. big or small your a running business earning an income.. So the government have the right to get there sticky little hands involved ay, bastards!