I love my line 6 delay..the tape sounds are choice...but it does not compress when it feedsback in the same way that like electro harmonics delux memory man does...this is a very disapointing feature

Vinyl VS cd is a classic.

Maybe it's a bit like how you like your eggs- scrambled eggs look/taste different to poached eggs, but it's still eggs in the end.

What do you think of each format- not in terms of good/better/best- just what you like about it. I personally consider it a real treat to listen to my favorite recordings on vinyl, and I also like the convenience of CD or other digital formats. It's like I play vinyl when I really want to 'focus' or take time out for the music, and I play CDs when I don't have the time/opportunity.

I have a CD by Erika Badu where one of the tracks has the crackles of vinyl superimposed onto it as a special effect... I really didn't know what to think of it. Sort of reminded me a bit of when photoshop first came out, and everyone started putting fake 'lens-flare' effects on otherwise perfect images...

////so so so many other variables to consider
//Is this only a discussion an audiophile would have?

when i say variables - i include the mental state of the musicians, the weather on the day , the prodution thats gone into the song, the disposition of the engineer/s , the types of microphones used, the type of microphone techniques used, etc etc... thats why i personally think that the digital / analogue path thing is a small issue... but then im only really applying video vs film logic to it..

//Where do you look if you want some objectivity?

now thats a good question - i think theres no right answer, as you'll never know if someones opinion is truly objective.. as its an opinion after all... reminds me of my old school motto , "knowledge is strength"

//Personally I find that it can get a little overwhelming researching EVERYTHING, especially when you're also the 'creative director' so to speak... the art can suffer, no?

of course -
it was not a definitive statement - there are lots of things to balance, for sure, yessum... compromise

//If someone knows they'll get flustered researching recording, it's probably more beneficial to them to turn their attention towards the song & performance...

Yes Foetusboy,
Getting flustered over an area of music where your strength does not truly lie, ie recording/techniques, of course time WILL be wasted there. Thats probably not what you want to do. Yes it is beneficial to get someone in who has spent the time knowing about this stuff on board, that is if you are under the approach of not wanting to expriment for yourself and TIME is of no value to you, then let it be.

Far to often than not, people try to learn as much as they can, and thats a good and positive thing. Though you got to have some leadways, without the expectation of Not letting yourself down with production time, costs etc....Even if you've done the groundwork beofre you go into the 'recording booth', it will be difficult to have an open mind about your 'structure' on hand. However keep it that way, and you'll never lose the focus of what you've wanted to start in the first place.

it might've been as simple as using better A/D conversion for the CD (ie, they said "digitally remastered" as opposed to "digitally remixed" heh), and converters are always getting better and better. (which can account for some late 80s cds sounding like cack quite frequently) ... ahh and I see they've been released on sony's direct stream digital format. interesting.

(found this page:)

[ external link ]

//Aren't 'old school' recording techniques & equipment supposed to be considered valuable/sought-after in today's recording industry?

Yes Foetusboy,
But you wouldn't really expect to purchase Rolling Stones, Hot Rocks' digitally remastered and also have them include the sounds of the vinyal hissing now would you. Yes old school techniques are considered valuable, but they are still a separate entity to digital technologly. The seamless transition is still not seamless yet. My ears are a good judge of that. It sounds too perfect.

//and also have them include the sounds of the vinyal hissing

Well of course not- you know there's more to analogue recordings than hiss and crackles. The sound has a certain warmth to it, right?

It's certainly an oversimplification to put it all down to the kind of tubes they used in their recording preamps. I guess I'm asking if it's important enough to anyone here to mention?

//Well of course not- you know there's more to analogue recordings than hiss and crackles. The sound has a certain warmth to it, right?

Interesting you say that. Perhaps you could justify the statement closley by comparing an original, say, recording on vinyal of Bob Dylan, and then get the exact same format on CD. It's interesting because if you use the analgoy of doing a drawing in crayon, pencil or pen, you have the most pure format and original of you're drawing right? If wrong please explain why. Then if you want to scan the image into your computer, I'd presume you'd scan it in to keep the format as close to the original as possible. Now most people after they scan the image in, then convert it to a bitmap in photoshop. Still following me?

You can then inhance the image. You may even end up scanning in all the dust, and bits of shit that are on the scanner bed. Most people do because they don't clean the scanner. However, you will find that most people 'clean up' the image in order to restore it to it most original state, clean.

Now if I take this analogy and apply it to an original recording on vinyal, of course there will be hiss, but there will also be all the other external factors that make the record sounf the way it does. The condition of the vinyal is one of them. Also, take into consideration the stylus thats playing the record. Modern DJ's have eliminated the hiss on most vinyal thats spinning, cause it's not a requirement of the music, though again, the music is not expected to have that 'dated' feel with hiss, and all other glories it creates.

As far as reproducing the sound and feel of a record digitally it is possible. As samflux, jet and lcajmo have expressed.

BTW ...
//So you can simulate the sound of recording to tape using software- why does tape still exist?
Easy, old technoloy never dies, however new technology replaces the old, and either way you go, it will always be a monetary issue. Thats unavoidable sorry. If a musician asked you if his/her recording sounded like it was analogue or digital would you really know? I don't consider it selling yourseld short, I consider it being a smart advantage.

//I think you're analogy compares the wrong things- let's say that you want to do a drawing using crayon because it best suits the look & feel of the image you've visualised.

Mate,
Your're misreading the point of my analogy. It compares incentives and heres why:
You choose to do your drawing in whateve medium you choose. Wheather you have done this for scanning in to the computer or not, this is not the reason why you scan it in the first place. Thats a non negotiable right?

Crayons will not be worth $3000. You've misread the point. If you think it is worth this extreme amount, then whats the use of using crayon in the first place? If you decide to do you entire artwork in photshop, then thats your cup of tea, and to each their own.

//The reality is crayon will never be eclipsed by the advent of the ball point/pencil/felt tip/photoshop, because it will always have a certain appeal, just like analogue has a certain appeal to some musicians.

Of course, I know this, thats why I'm a graphic designer :-) I'm sure you know I don;t do every piece of work on the computer now do you. However in order to reach more pople people globally, I may convert my work to a digitall format that reaches more minds.

But as we both know, you can NOW seamlessy integrate both old and new technologies for want of a better infrastructure. Thats the way I see it.

//-Spend $300.00 for 15 minutes of 16 track, two inch audiotape, or

-Record digitally using a program that simulates/models the same sound.

Exactly man....those are the options, well for nows sake. Like you I love what analogue does, and people who create technology did something about it for those of us who do care about our financial pocket, but want the same results for less stress.

// if you take it as "just another effect" instead of "wow, now I have a marshall / moog / neve / 1176 / whatever" it's good.

Got to agree with that as well... that can be extended to almost all technology, really. Bloody Reason.

//tat canh be extended to almost all technology, really.

Yeah- I guess so. I mean, without wanting to get into the ol' which-came-first-the-sound-or-the-source argument, you have to expect one to inform/overide the other sometimes. In the end it doesn't matter, it's just your process.

// I just made a disasteradio tribute using reason.

Heh, it'd be pretty hypocritical of me to suggest that recording music's all about intention and then slag off Reason, but I just think the underlying assumptions of the programme are a bit ... zany. The patch leads that swing when you "rotate" the interface! Crazy!

how many tracks was this 2" by the way benjamin ?

16

a) does it sound interesting ?
b) will it make my job as a musician more fun ?

the question of "quality" arises only with luxuries such as monitors or a studio soundcard (other than my soundblaster live), of which I have neither. ahem.

Yeah, cheers... can't wait to hear your new SID sounds mate...

have you ever done a 2" tape recording fetousboy..? it really is the shiznit i reckon.... it does have it's limitation's like being $500 for 13min of recorded stuff, but hey you get what you pay for.

if you could shagg kate moss.......... or a girl that looked like kate moss.... which would it be...

you said money no object so saving dollers is not a consideration? tape compresses eh? I don't know much about that sorry... just sounds better...

Benjamin..you saying shag Kate Moss or a lookalike..what difference does it make..you'll still get shagged in the end by someone who comes close to the product if you chose the clone..

but in your heart you know the truth.