I dont take the courses at a tertiary level but ive study'd audio engineering at school and have done a bit of live and studio engineering.
As far as getting into the industry goes its amazingly tought, marmalade alone have a huge amount of people waiting to work for free just to gain experiance, its highly competitve and difficult to crack but if its what you want to do then go hard, get the grades, be prepared to slum it for a while and hopefully you will land yourself a wicked job in due time :-)
Also worth looking at SIT (invicargal) no fees and i think all the third year SAE students end up down there any way,
I have a diploma from MAINZ. It's a great course - very in-depth - but I would suggest doing the certificate year only, then instead of spending an enormous amount ($12,000 when I was there, including iBook) on fees, spend the year volunteering at studios, even little home studios. Do whatever you need to do to get in there - be prepared to be a tea boy/girl for six months - and you'll learn a lot more than either course will teach you. I work part-time as a studio engineer now, and I've learnt as much from my own mistakes/successes in the studio as I have from the course. That said, the first year at MAINZ is really comprehensive - great tutors, great facilities, a lot of fun, and a lot easier than high school.
The diploma year is much, much harder - like going from 3rd form to sixth form in one big step, if you like. It covers a large range and depth of material, often going beyond what you need to know and into the nitty gritty electronic details and stuff - as someone from the arty side (rather than the techy side) I found it boring at times, particularly studying the schematics of various mixing desks - but for the most part its very useful material.
Passing isn't hard, it's finding the time to do all the assignments that is a challenge. There were people in my diploma year (I was one of them) doing assignments up to the last minute on the last day. If they didn't hand their stuff in by 5pm, they failed. There was about four people (out of 20) that did fail, and about 3 that dropped out along the way.
I would recommend both years, but if you really just want to be a studio engineer, just do the first year and get out into the real world. There's fuck all money in it (avg. $15 - $25 an hour) unless you're a huge famous producer, but it's a lot of fun and if you're a musician as well, you definitely use a lot of your engineering skills regularly, doing things like setting up P.A.s, recording your own band's music etc.
If you're not sure about whether or not to study audio engineering, do whatever you can to get some experience in a studio first - you might have to settle for a beudget studio, but if you keep pestering, someone will eventually let you sit in aon a session. See if you really like it - the hours can be ridiculous, band members can be difficult to deal with, things break/go wrong. sometimes the musicians are shit but you still have to try and record a usable take (this applies particularly to flat singers) etc.
Yeah i'm doing the Diploma Level at SAE. I thought about MAINZ, but then i didn't think it'd be recognized if i went overseas. I can also get a Degree overseas, sure these are stupid pieces of paper, but to get someone to look at your Portfolio, you need to get them to look at the piece of paper.
I'm actually just leaving school, dropping 7th form to go straight into the course. I got a student loan for something like $5300 to pay off, but that's pretty miniscule compared to MAINZ. The reason i didn't go to MAINZ is because i felt it was for students who don't do well and are just going to stuff around. What studio did you go work at? you have any suggestions for me?
I just red your posts in the bar on sound engineering, from a while ago - MAINZ also gives you free recording time, as well as sharing the building with live sound students and music students - heaps of real world contacts and musicians on hand to record, unlike SAE, where you have to go looking for bands.
I rang about ten studios before deciding on MAINZ or SAE (I got into both, having done a lot of music stuff at school) and they ALL, without exception, said MAINZ is better, however what you say about SAE offering overseas recognition is true. BUT once you've recorded a few bands and put together a portfolio of your recordings, studios won't give a shit whether you studied at either, which would also be the case in NZ. If you're good, you're good. It's not law or medicine, it's rock and roll. People will judge you on what you've done, not what you potentially can do.
im trying to decide on whether to do the live sound and event production course or the contemporary music course at MAINZ, anyone got any suggestions as to which one would benifit a musician wanting to work in the industry as both musician and event production person?
The live sound course is sort of considered the "vege" chioce of all the courses - it's not brain surgery. I would do the music course (which is really good) and learn the live sound stuff as well : You could talk to the live sound tutors and get the books they print, and you'd get everything the live sound people get. The live sound guys do the live sound for the musicians' gigs too, so you could hang out with them when you weren't playing, and learn even more that way.
oh ok, yeah doing a performing course would be better. so the live sound students work with the contemporary/performance and audio engineer students aswell ay? do you know any jobs that could come from the performance course? i know its a hard area to find work in, especially for good pay but yeah recording studios seem like the only place to get work after the course. do you know if the Diploma of the Contemporary music course is worth doing?
First things first - you will never see a music industry job advertised. If you really want to work in the music biz, you have to become very good at marketing yourself to people who are in the industry already, because you're going to have to convince them that they should employ you/allow you to volunteer. Studio jobs are so hard to come by that usually, an engineer who has already got a little experience recording bands at tech/friends bands on his/her laptop or whatever will still work for free for a few months, to learn the ropes and stuff. In this initial time, you may not get to do much actual audio work, more likely you'll be going to buy sandwiches and make coffees etc.
Having spent the last four years in teritary training for music industry stuff (Diploma in Audio Engineering at MAINZ, now just about to do my third year at Otago university) the thing that is crystal clear to me now is the best way to get these skills is to go and do it for real, don't waste your money learning it in a classroom, paying many thousands of dollars for the privilege. The Concord Dawn boys dropped out of MAINZ so they would have more money to buy gear - I don't think they'll be wishing they had stayed in school, somehow.
University has definitely improved my music (especially in the theory department) although some of the musicians that graduate with degrees have not, in my opinion, got the skills a top-level musician needs - as is so often the case, you get out what you put in. Tech courses aren't as good as going to a studio/live sound company/record label/music magazine/radio station etc and doing whatever it takes to work for free (or very little) for a few months/a year/whatever. You'll get a much wider network of industry connections this way, and you'll find work easier than a graduate with no "real world" experience, especially if the company you work for free in gives you a reference. If you're good, THEY might even employ you. Obviously, it's going to be different from job to job just exactly what you need to do, but you'd be surprised how many companies (particularly smaller ones) will let you come and help out. This sort of learning is better, using up-to-the-minute technology, more fun and more practical than what a polytech will teach you. It's a scarier option to not have a piece of paper to wave around, but believe me, my studio work is judged solely on the quality of the sounds I get, not where I learnt my craft.
I'm not too sure about the diploma year - in my diploma year of audio eng, I had to record a fucking appallingly bad diploma band, but then some of them were really good. You're always going to get people who put in the practice and get good results, and then others who do these courses because they don't know what else to do, and they fucking suck. They might still have the answers for the tests and be able to get the diplomas or whatever, but in the cold light of day, they are still crap at their instrument.
The latest excellent NZ musician mag (with Goodshirt on the front) has a comprehensive list of studios and record labels contact details - that should help you get started with places to volunteer at. Also check links on this site and bands.co.nz, even email bands if you just want to roadie (most bands would LOVE someone to help them move their gear around for them).
Man, that's a lot of writing. I think I should have a lie down and a milo.
job wise - i agree with all of what the deputy has said .. but would like to add one very important point.. its all about attitude. . . and i could never stress that enough.. actually in reality it probably like 60% attitude - 40% skill ... so go hard, grab the sucker by the horns and don't let go .. but be cool too..
For nayone considering studying at either SAE or MAINZ, look up the Jerry Wise Scholarship. It's given to four different facets of music a year : jazz, pop, and audio engineering. My friend Matt got it (for audio) twice in a row because hardly anyone goes for it. They pay about $3000 of your fees for you, so it's very worthwhile. Note that you have to be enrolled in school to apply for it. I found some info on it, here it is you crazy kids:
JERRY WISE YOUNG PERFORMERS SCHOLARSHIP
PO Box 37442, Parnell, Auckland
Phone: 0-9-308 0510
Fax: 0-9-306 4977
Email: music@rianz.org.nz
Co-ordinator: Dean Cameron
The aim of the Scholarship is to make four financial grants of $5,000.00 each to secondary school students. Grants will be given for musical performance in pop, rock, jazz, classical, and audio engineering music. The main focus of the Scholarship is as follows: To complete a recording project involving performances in any musical style incorporating any range of voices and/or instruments; To continue music education at a tertiary institution in New Zealand.
Conditions of Entry: Applications must be made on the Official Entry Form, and include the following: All candidates must be enrolled in the 6th or 7th form of a New Zealand Secondary School or New Zealand Correspondence School at the time of making application. All entries must include an audio cassette or video cassette of the applicants performance. All entries must be supported with written documentation on the candidates background in music along with any previous musical achievements and references. Teachers may assist with preparation of applications. All information and Official Entry Forms available from RIANZ, PO Box 37-442, Parnell, Auckland.
I dont take the courses at a tertiary ...
I dont take the courses at a tertiary level but ive study'd audio engineering at school and have done a bit of live and studio engineering.
As far as getting into the industry goes its amazingly tought, marmalade alone have a huge amount of people waiting to work for free just to gain experiance, its highly competitve and difficult to crack but if its what you want to do then go hard, get the grades, be prepared to slum it for a while and hopefully you will land yourself a wicked job in due time :-)
Also worth looking at SIT (invicargal) no fees and i think all the third year SAE students end up down there any way,
good luck :-)
I have a diploma from MAINZ. It's a ...
I have a diploma from MAINZ. It's a great course - very in-depth - but I would suggest doing the certificate year only, then instead of spending an enormous amount ($12,000 when I was there, including iBook) on fees, spend the year volunteering at studios, even little home studios. Do whatever you need to do to get in there - be prepared to be a tea boy/girl for six months - and you'll learn a lot more than either course will teach you. I work part-time as a studio engineer now, and I've learnt as much from my own mistakes/successes in the studio as I have from the course. That said, the first year at MAINZ is really comprehensive - great tutors, great facilities, a lot of fun, and a lot easier than high school.
The diploma year is much, much harder - like going from 3rd form to sixth form in one big step, if you like. It covers a large range and depth of material, often going beyond what you need to know and into the nitty gritty electronic details and stuff - as someone from the arty side (rather than the techy side) I found it boring at times, particularly studying the schematics of various mixing desks - but for the most part its very useful material.
Passing isn't hard, it's finding the time to do all the assignments that is a challenge. There were people in my diploma year (I was one of them) doing assignments up to the last minute on the last day. If they didn't hand their stuff in by 5pm, they failed. There was about four people (out of 20) that did fail, and about 3 that dropped out along the way.
I would recommend both years, but if you really just want to be a studio engineer, just do the first year and get out into the real world. There's fuck all money in it (avg. $15 - $25 an hour) unless you're a huge famous producer, but it's a lot of fun and if you're a musician as well, you definitely use a lot of your engineering skills regularly, doing things like setting up P.A.s, recording your own band's music etc.
If you're not sure about whether or not to study audio engineering, do whatever you can to get some experience in a studio first - you might have to settle for a beudget studio, but if you keep pestering, someone will eventually let you sit in aon a session. See if you really like it - the hours can be ridiculous, band members can be difficult to deal with, things break/go wrong. sometimes the musicians are shit but you still have to try and record a usable take (this applies particularly to flat singers) etc.
I hope this helps.
Yeah i'm doing the Diploma Level at ...
Yeah i'm doing the Diploma Level at SAE. I thought about MAINZ, but then i didn't think it'd be recognized if i went overseas. I can also get a Degree overseas, sure these are stupid pieces of paper, but to get someone to look at your Portfolio, you need to get them to look at the piece of paper.
I'm actually just leaving school, dropping 7th form to go straight into the course. I got a student loan for something like $5300 to pay off, but that's pretty miniscule compared to MAINZ. The reason i didn't go to MAINZ is because i felt it was for students who don't do well and are just going to stuff around. What studio did you go work at? you have any suggestions for me?
I just red your posts in the bar on ...
I just red your posts in the bar on sound engineering, from a while ago - MAINZ also gives you free recording time, as well as sharing the building with live sound students and music students - heaps of real world contacts and musicians on hand to record, unlike SAE, where you have to go looking for bands.
I rang about ten studios before deciding on MAINZ or SAE (I got into both, having done a lot of music stuff at school) and they ALL, without exception, said MAINZ is better, however what you say about SAE offering overseas recognition is true. BUT once you've recorded a few bands and put together a portfolio of your recordings, studios won't give a shit whether you studied at either, which would also be the case in NZ. If you're good, you're good. It's not law or medicine, it's rock and roll. People will judge you on what you've done, not what you potentially can do.
i have a friend wanting to do this, ...
i have a friend wanting to do this, what and where is MAINZ and SAE. marmalade studios had a course too aye? any info appreciated?? ta
www.mainz.ac.nz www.sae.co.nz Hope...
www.mainz.ac.nz
www.sae.co.nz
Hope you find some usefull info here
im trying to decide on whether to do ...
im trying to decide on whether to do the live sound and event production course or the contemporary music course at MAINZ, anyone got any suggestions as to which one would benifit a musician wanting to work in the industry as both musician and event production person?
[ http://arbidday.tripod.com ]
The live sound course is sort of ...
The live sound course is sort of considered the "vege" chioce of all the courses - it's not brain surgery. I would do the music course (which is really good) and learn the live sound stuff as well : You could talk to the live sound tutors and get the books they print, and you'd get everything the live sound people get. The live sound guys do the live sound for the musicians' gigs too, so you could hang out with them when you weren't playing, and learn even more that way.
oh ok, yeah doing a performing course ...
oh ok, yeah doing a performing course would be better. so the live sound students work with the contemporary/performance and audio engineer students aswell ay? do you know any jobs that could come from the performance course? i know its a hard area to find work in, especially for good pay but yeah recording studios seem like the only place to get work after the course. do you know if the Diploma of the Contemporary music course is worth doing?
[ http://arbidday.tripod.com ]
First things first - you will never see ...
First things first - you will never see a music industry job advertised. If you really want to work in the music biz, you have to become very good at marketing yourself to people who are in the industry already, because you're going to have to convince them that they should employ you/allow you to volunteer. Studio jobs are so hard to come by that usually, an engineer who has already got a little experience recording bands at tech/friends bands on his/her laptop or whatever will still work for free for a few months, to learn the ropes and stuff. In this initial time, you may not get to do much actual audio work, more likely you'll be going to buy sandwiches and make coffees etc.
Having spent the last four years in teritary training for music industry stuff (Diploma in Audio Engineering at MAINZ, now just about to do my third year at Otago university) the thing that is crystal clear to me now is the best way to get these skills is to go and do it for real, don't waste your money learning it in a classroom, paying many thousands of dollars for the privilege. The Concord Dawn boys dropped out of MAINZ so they would have more money to buy gear - I don't think they'll be wishing they had stayed in school, somehow.
University has definitely improved my music (especially in the theory department) although some of the musicians that graduate with degrees have not, in my opinion, got the skills a top-level musician needs - as is so often the case, you get out what you put in. Tech courses aren't as good as going to a studio/live sound company/record label/music magazine/radio station etc and doing whatever it takes to work for free (or very little) for a few months/a year/whatever. You'll get a much wider network of industry connections this way, and you'll find work easier than a graduate with no "real world" experience, especially if the company you work for free in gives you a reference. If you're good, THEY might even employ you. Obviously, it's going to be different from job to job just exactly what you need to do, but you'd be surprised how many companies (particularly smaller ones) will let you come and help out. This sort of learning is better, using up-to-the-minute technology, more fun and more practical than what a polytech will teach you. It's a scarier option to not have a piece of paper to wave around, but believe me, my studio work is judged solely on the quality of the sounds I get, not where I learnt my craft.
I'm not too sure about the diploma year - in my diploma year of audio eng, I had to record a fucking appallingly bad diploma band, but then some of them were really good. You're always going to get people who put in the practice and get good results, and then others who do these courses because they don't know what else to do, and they fucking suck. They might still have the answers for the tests and be able to get the diplomas or whatever, but in the cold light of day, they are still crap at their instrument.
The latest excellent NZ musician mag (with Goodshirt on the front) has a comprehensive list of studios and record labels contact details - that should help you get started with places to volunteer at. Also check links on this site and bands.co.nz, even email bands if you just want to roadie (most bands would LOVE someone to help them move their gear around for them).
Man, that's a lot of writing. I think I should have a lie down and a milo.
I just visited your site. Girl bands ...
I just visited your site. Girl bands are hot.
my my you deserve more than a milo for ...
my my you deserve more than a milo for that piece of work!! thanks heaps.
[ http://arbidday.tripod.com ]
Fucking oats. I don't know where you ...
Fucking oats. I don't know where you get all this shit from Deputy but these are the sorts of answers i've been looking for lol.
job wise - i agree with all of what the ...
job wise - i agree with all of what the deputy has said .. but would like to add one very important point.. its all about attitude. . . and i could never stress that enough.. actually in reality it probably like 60% attitude - 40% skill ... so go hard, grab the sucker by the horns and don't let go .. but be cool too..
For nayone considering studying at ...
For nayone considering studying at either SAE or MAINZ, look up the Jerry Wise Scholarship. It's given to four different facets of music a year : jazz, pop, and audio engineering. My friend Matt got it (for audio) twice in a row because hardly anyone goes for it. They pay about $3000 of your fees for you, so it's very worthwhile. Note that you have to be enrolled in school to apply for it. I found some info on it, here it is you crazy kids:
JERRY WISE YOUNG PERFORMERS SCHOLARSHIP
PO Box 37442, Parnell, Auckland
Phone: 0-9-308 0510
Fax: 0-9-306 4977
Email: music@rianz.org.nz
Co-ordinator: Dean Cameron
The aim of the Scholarship is to make four financial grants of $5,000.00 each to secondary school students. Grants will be given for musical performance in pop, rock, jazz, classical, and audio engineering music. The main focus of the Scholarship is as follows: To complete a recording project involving performances in any musical style incorporating any range of voices and/or instruments; To continue music education at a tertiary institution in New Zealand.
Conditions of Entry: Applications must be made on the Official Entry Form, and include the following: All candidates must be enrolled in the 6th or 7th form of a New Zealand Secondary School or New Zealand Correspondence School at the time of making application. All entries must include an audio cassette or video cassette of the applicants performance. All entries must be supported with written documentation on the candidates background in music along with any previous musical achievements and references. Teachers may assist with preparation of applications. All information and Official Entry Forms available from RIANZ, PO Box 37-442, Parnell, Auckland.
that is, for nayone or anyone....
that is, for nayone or anyone.
OH! thankyou so much!...
OH! thankyou so much!
[ http://arbidday.tripod.com ]
Damn. I wish i knew about the ...
Damn. I wish i knew about the scholarship sooner :(
Yeah, but now i got to get a job and ...
Yeah, but now i got to get a job and pay off nearly $6000. I just hope this course pays off.
Dry those tears. Schloarships are for ...
Dry those tears. Schloarships are for pussies. Hard cunts get student loans.