//America = country full of fat and ignorant people!
sigh .... jazz, democracy, many socially progressive movements, more good music than you can shake a stick at (every nz band will name check at least a couple of US influences,) hemingway, roth, browning, plath, delillo, jackson pollock, ansel adams, etc, the light bulb, the telephone, the PC, the artifical heart, e=mc2, discovery of dna, sign language ...
so it's come to this - bascially - i'm sick of this simplistic, stupid, *ignorant*, low IQ bullshit. newsflash dumbass - we have fat and ignorant people in NZ - infact - they're everywhere. Without knowing what you weigh all I can say is you're halfway there.
America is a great big place filled with everything that is great and everything that is stupid about humanity - get over it - its a grey grey grey world.
//America is a great big place filled with everything that is great and everything that is stupid about humanity - get over it - its a grey grey grey world.
We'll get over it when the people who decide what America does are the great ones... not the current idiots... whom I consider dangerous and mental.
// i'm sick of this simplistic, stupid, *ignorant*, low IQ bullshit. newsflash dumbass - we have fat and
// ignorant people in NZ - infact - they're everywhere. Without knowing what you weigh all I can say is
// you're halfway there.
Yeah, right on! Particularly given more people tried to vote for someone else last presidential electrion I do my best to refer to the US government rather than just the US itself.
Well, the US does have very scary stats re: weight, but I think NZ's not actually that far down the list if you start ranking countries...
nice guy - that's a fair point you make - the neocons in power are scary people, even scarier up close as i'm now living in new york. we'll see what happens in November 2004. remember Gore had more of the popular vote gw bush is the first president ever to be *elected* with less of the popular vote. there are millions of americans who are downright embarrased, deeply saddened, and very angry about their country's foreign policies.
in saying *get over it* the point i was trying to make is that things are not so balck and white as the stupid *all americans are ...* above
//we'll see what happens in November 2004.
I am also concerned about that, considering the proposed candidate for the opposition that I saw on tele. He seemed really dull. And dull probably wont take dubaya out.
my theory says hes already dead and we will never know... or alive been held in secrete, and we will not know for another hundred years.
I don't believe this with all my heart, but I think its every bit as possible if not more possible than him been in hiding..
even more possible hes died of natural causes. There is not a single video tape or audio that proves he is alive since september 11. Well not that I've seen, no video refers to september 11, and audio does not prove that he is making the speaches.
My theory is that he never existed. All causes need leaders, but if your leader never lived then they will never die, their ideas will never be compromised and their enemies will never win.
you maybe mocking me, but that is what I base my theory on; kind of.
You see if osama was known to be captive, then there would be a mass rise in his freedom fighters attacking western targets while demanding his freedom. By him been out of the picture, but no one knowing, then they can't attack in the name of his freedom or revenge of his death.
but in saying this they will probably find him next week and make me look even more stupid.
//There is not a single video tape or audio that proves he is alive since september 11. Well not that I've seen, no video refers to september 11, and audio does not prove that he is making the speaches.
He's released a few audio tapes (possibly video too, I can't remember) mentioning September 11 hasn't he? Either that or the monologue on Letterman is a less than 100% accurate source of news!
This war is bullshit, and is gonna cause more problems than there was previously. Sadam was an evil dictator , but the U.S keep killing inocent civilians, and defying international law, and that surely just gives people more reason to hate them, and terrorism becomes the only viable option. every revolution there's ever been have involved acts of terrorism / freedom fighting.
i don't condone terrorism, but i don't condone the killing of inocent children by U.S soldiers in Afghanistan last week either. all this war is gonna make the siuation worse, and allow the U.S to gwet their greasy little hands on oil and make Bush's and Rumsfeld's friends at Lockhead arms manufacturers rich.
Jotun, i'm just telling it like it is, go back to Texas dude.
they'll never be able to catch all the terrorists, and by the U.S contiuing to kill inocent people, it's just gonna breed more hatred, and more freedodm fighters.
There is no moral equivalence between accidental civilian deaths (they are regrettable and should be avoided), and deaths as a result of deliberate attacks, many of which are engineered to result in the highest number of deaths possible.
Keep in mind that most ordinary Iraqis are actually in favour of the USA staying put for the time being. Most of the so-called "resistance fighters" are in fact out-of-towners, extremists who hate the USA no matter what it does.
U.S is one of the major sponsers of terroism- they basicllay trained Al Quaida so they could fight the Russians out of Afghanistan.
the U.S is like alcohol, it's the cause and solution to all lifes problems.
There's a little thing called "context" that you need to understand. The USA had, admittedly, made some mistakes in their loyalties of the past (eg. arming Saddam against Iran), but you can't look at the past through the prism of the present.
//Don't you think there's a religious component to this terrorism you try to excuse?
This is true, the extreme religious views of Saddam etc (and n Sadam's case minority) do fuel their righteous terrorism, but the same can most definately be said of the US. I remember a news item some months or more ago in which Bush II said that he was sent by god to rid the world of evil etc. I personally could not help but think that Saddam probably thought the same. They just believe in different gods and different evils.
Saddam WAS a horrible dictator, responsible for the deaths of a shitload of innocent people, he violated international war for his own vindetta - more power, more $$. But then Bush II has also violated international war - in war against Iraq and in holding people at Guantanamo Bay without charging them and without labelling them as POW's (as this means that they must be sent home at the conclusion of war, Afghanistan is long over), and he is doing this for his own vendetta, more power, more $$ (oil), and the amount of deaths he is responsible for is growing by the day.
And it is widely known that Saddam was at his worst in the 80s (when the US was supplying him with weapons and training for his men) - not to say he has been a prince of late. America just got scared whent hey heard their oil supplies were going to run out long before predicted and so suddenly decided they cared about the poor Iraqis and Saddams suppsed weapons of mass destruction, all written proof of which has been disputed and no physical proof of which has been found. The only way they know he has ever had anything is that they gave him some toys 2 decades ago which I'm sure he had ample time to use in the interum while trying to commit genocide.
// This is true, the extreme religious views of Saddam etc (and n Sadam's case minority) do fuel their righteous terrorism
Hang on, wasn't Saddam running the only secular state in the Arab world? What extreme religious views did he hold?
This is one thing that's baffled me about the whole business... Al Qaeda want a pan-Arabic state run under traditional Muslim law. Saddam ran a secular state. Where's the connection??
//Al Qaeda want a pan-Arabic state run under traditional Muslim law. Saddam ran a secular state. Where's the connection??
Apparently Bush has a problem with entities containing the letter Q (IraQ, Al Quaeda), hence residents of EQuatorial Guinea are apparently concerned.
Actually, the clear and logical link between Al Quaeda and Iraq is that they have both received money and weaponry from the US to fight communism. The burning question is will the US's war on terrorism be as effective and productive as it's war on communism.
""""U.S is one of the major sponsers of terroism- they basicllay trained Al Quaida so they could fight the Russians out of Afghanistan.""""
they trainned the taleban, who then protected Al Quaida. At the time it probably seemed like a good way to fight the U.S.S.R without having to over commit resources in another region.
//There certainly is a religious element to the terrorism that Al Qaeda partake in, but Saddam Hussein whilst being quite religious himself (although Im not sure it was muslim) ran an incredibly secular state. This is the main reason why Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda hated him so much, as he, in order to ensure his own security, would crack down on any fundamentalists in Iraq.
I suppose Saddam calling for "Jihad" against the evil occupiers counts for naught. Also, I wasn't pointing to Saddam specifically. I'm talking about the terrorism currently taking place in Iraq and the Middle East in general.
And as for Saddam not being a financier of terror - what about the cash prizes for families of suicide bombers?
Fair comments and replies to what I wrote folks, I cant be bothered cutting and pasting again, so I'll just go off the top of my head.
I think Saddam's cash prizes for suicide bombers families might have been a little bit like his promise of an army stretching from Baghdad to Palestine in the Palestinians wanted to fight, just words perhaps?
The Americans develop these 'smart' weapons not to avoid civilian deaths but to avoid casualties to their own troops. Which is why instead of sending troops in of late they've just bombed everywhere to buggery.
I don't really think Osama fighting the Russians was that honourable, I mean I know we have the version that paints the USSR forces as invading, but the government of Afghanistan sort of invited them in to help ensure their security, which while it isn't necessarily a legitimate thing to do is done by lots of countries to prop up regimes they like. And the resistance that existed before the Russians had arrived was created almost entirely by the Americans because the Afghan government was tending socialist, and they were worried about a possible union with the Soviets. As far as I understand it all anyways!
""""I could be wrong, but I think that Osama was in Afghanistan at the time the Americans trained and gave money to the mujhaidden (I spelt that wrong) and received said training and cash""""
yeah he was there fighting the u.s.s.r, that I can almost admire, even though he came from a family of wealth he went out and faught the u.s.s.r because he throught it was wrong.. hes not even of afgan birth.
//The bad thing about saddam being caught is that bush might get relected now.... *gulp*
But if Bush hadn't been elected ahead of Gore in the first place it is unlikely the US would have interefered in Iraq anyway ... so are you pro-Bush or aren't you Kitten? You ain't making much sense.
"""" its just that the American military doesn't bother to try to avoid them for the most part."""
the american military has spend millions upon million in developing accurate weapons as to not kill and destroy everything in its path. The additional deaths are accidents and tragic, but I don't think they go out hoping to just collect a couple, they generally go to great lengths to avoid destroying non military targets. But heck, in the environment they're in at the moment I'm not surprised that they get a little trigger happy. Sucks for both sides.
Just to give my opinion:
Saddam out of power is a good thing,
saddam captured is a good thing,
Coallition handing power over in 6 months is a good thing
but with saddam gone, is the thorne in the side of a possible united fundimentalist islamic arab contentent gone? probably not, but who knows....
I don't think I want to have kids anymore, this world is a hole.
//the american military has spend millions upon million in developing accurate weapons as to not kill and destroy everything in its path.
or they could have spent millions and millions developing weapons that only sporadically work, but at least made unemployment appear lower, and helped some large weapons firms roll in dosh...
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isnt' fox tv sooo cool!...
isnt' fox tv sooo cool!
another terrorist bastard caught under ...
another terrorist bastard caught under the stars and stripes!!!
It's awesome news....
It's awesome news.
Stripes and Stars???? Even the chilean ...
Stripes and Stars????
Even the chilean army could have done that faster!!!
I hate these kind of comments, makes people think that the US is a great country, so FAIR...
Can anybody tell me what IS America??
America = country full of fat and ...
America = country full of fat and ignorant people!
//America = country full of fat and ...
//America = country full of fat and ignorant people!
sigh .... jazz, democracy, many socially progressive movements, more good music than you can shake a stick at (every nz band will name check at least a couple of US influences,) hemingway, roth, browning, plath, delillo, jackson pollock, ansel adams, etc, the light bulb, the telephone, the PC, the artifical heart, e=mc2, discovery of dna, sign language ...
so it's come to this - bascially - i'm sick of this simplistic, stupid, *ignorant*, low IQ bullshit. newsflash dumbass - we have fat and ignorant people in NZ - infact - they're everywhere. Without knowing what you weigh all I can say is you're halfway there.
America is a great big place filled with everything that is great and everything that is stupid about humanity - get over it - its a grey grey grey world.
//America is a great big place filled ...
//America is a great big place filled with everything that is great and everything that is stupid about humanity - get over it - its a grey grey grey world.
We'll get over it when the people who decide what America does are the great ones... not the current idiots... whom I consider dangerous and mental.
// i'm sick of this simplistic, ...
// i'm sick of this simplistic, stupid, *ignorant*, low IQ bullshit. newsflash dumbass - we have fat and
// ignorant people in NZ - infact - they're everywhere. Without knowing what you weigh all I can say is
// you're halfway there.
Yeah, right on! Particularly given more people tried to vote for someone else last presidential electrion I do my best to refer to the US government rather than just the US itself.
Well, the US does have very scary stats re: weight, but I think NZ's not actually that far down the list if you start ranking countries...
nice guy - that's a fair point you ...
nice guy - that's a fair point you make - the neocons in power are scary people, even scarier up close as i'm now living in new york. we'll see what happens in November 2004. remember Gore had more of the popular vote gw bush is the first president ever to be *elected* with less of the popular vote. there are millions of americans who are downright embarrased, deeply saddened, and very angry about their country's foreign policies.
in saying *get over it* the point i was trying to make is that things are not so balck and white as the stupid *all americans are ...* above
//we'll see what happens in November ...
//we'll see what happens in November 2004.
I am also concerned about that, considering the proposed candidate for the opposition that I saw on tele. He seemed really dull. And dull probably wont take dubaya out.
This is terrific news....
This is terrific news.
lets hope Osama is captured alive very ...
lets hope Osama is captured alive very soon
my theory says hes already dead and we ...
my theory says hes already dead and we will never know... or alive been held in secrete, and we will not know for another hundred years.
I don't believe this with all my heart, but I think its every bit as possible if not more possible than him been in hiding..
even more possible hes died of natural causes. There is not a single video tape or audio that proves he is alive since september 11. Well not that I've seen, no video refers to september 11, and audio does not prove that he is making the speaches.
My theory is that he never existed. All ...
My theory is that he never existed. All causes need leaders, but if your leader never lived then they will never die, their ideas will never be compromised and their enemies will never win.
you maybe mocking me, but that is what ...
you maybe mocking me, but that is what I base my theory on; kind of.
You see if osama was known to be captive, then there would be a mass rise in his freedom fighters attacking western targets while demanding his freedom. By him been out of the picture, but no one knowing, then they can't attack in the name of his freedom or revenge of his death.
but in saying this they will probably find him next week and make me look even more stupid.
//There is not a single video tape or ...
//There is not a single video tape or audio that proves he is alive since september 11. Well not that I've seen, no video refers to september 11, and audio does not prove that he is making the speaches.
He's released a few audio tapes (possibly video too, I can't remember) mentioning September 11 hasn't he? Either that or the monologue on Letterman is a less than 100% accurate source of news!
I would like to thank you dave for the ...
I would like to thank you dave for the many hours of enjoyment your show brings us and praise you on the birth of your son.
I hope he brings much joy to your life,
oh,
and death to america.
yeah there is audio, but that does not quite prove it for me, I would like to see a video of him talking about sep 11 and current events.
He was not in the best of health anyway, kidney problems.
i highly doubt they will ever catch ...
i highly doubt they will ever catch osama. hes far to intellegent
umm, yeah whatever...
umm, yeah whatever
This war is bullshit, and is gonna ...
This war is bullshit, and is gonna cause more problems than there was previously. Sadam was an evil dictator , but the U.S keep killing inocent civilians, and defying international law, and that surely just gives people more reason to hate them, and terrorism becomes the only viable option. every revolution there's ever been have involved acts of terrorism / freedom fighting.
i don't condone terrorism, but i don't condone the killing of inocent children by U.S soldiers in Afghanistan last week either. all this war is gonna make the siuation worse, and allow the U.S to gwet their greasy little hands on oil and make Bush's and Rumsfeld's friends at Lockhead arms manufacturers rich.
barkadero, fuck up u terrorist ...
barkadero, fuck up u terrorist sympothsiser!!! We oughta hand u over to the CIA!!!
// fuck up u terrorist ...
// fuck up u terrorist sympothsiser
Jotun, the US government has been training terrorists for years and to the best of my knowledge still are.
I shouldn't start this, but never mind...
//and terrorism becomes the only viable ...
//and terrorism becomes the only viable option. every revolution there's ever been have involved acts of terrorism / freedom fighting.
"revolution". How romantic.
Don't you think there's a religious component to this terrorism you try to excuse?
i am have no sympothy for bastards who ...
i am have no sympothy for bastards who blows innocent ppl up!!! That includes American goverment and terrorrist scums!!!
Jotun, i'm just telling it like it is, ...
Jotun, i'm just telling it like it is, go back to Texas dude.
they'll never be able to catch all the terrorists, and by the U.S contiuing to kill inocent people, it's just gonna breed more hatred, and more freedodm fighters.
[ http://www.valleyfive.com ]
So should the USA just sit back and ...
So should the USA just sit back and experience a few more 9/11s?
What the Hell does 9/11 have to do with ...
What the Hell does 9/11 have to do with Iraq.
yor just Racist.
[ http://www.valleyfive.com ]
There is no moral equivalence between ...
There is no moral equivalence between accidental civilian deaths (they are regrettable and should be avoided), and deaths as a result of deliberate attacks, many of which are engineered to result in the highest number of deaths possible.
Keep in mind that most ordinary Iraqis are actually in favour of the USA staying put for the time being. Most of the so-called "resistance fighters" are in fact out-of-towners, extremists who hate the USA no matter what it does.
I ain't no fat ignorant yank!!!...
I ain't no fat ignorant yank!!!
It just so happens that Saddam Hussein ...
It just so happens that Saddam Hussein was one of the major financiers of terrorism in the Middle East.
//yor just Racist.
How presumptuous of you.
Barkadero must be a hippie scum! I ...
Barkadero must be a hippie scum! I support green peace mind u, just not one sided terrorist sympothesir like U!
o.k maybe 'racist' was a little rude ...
o.k maybe 'racist' was a little rude of me.
U.S is one of the major sponsers of terroism- they basicllay trained Al Quaida so they could fight the Russians out of Afghanistan.
the U.S is like alcohol, it's the cause and solution to all lifes problems.
[ http://www.valleyfive.com ]
There's a little thing called ...
There's a little thing called "context" that you need to understand. The USA had, admittedly, made some mistakes in their loyalties of the past (eg. arming Saddam against Iran), but you can't look at the past through the prism of the present.
//Don't you think there's a religious ...
//Don't you think there's a religious component to this terrorism you try to excuse?
This is true, the extreme religious views of Saddam etc (and n Sadam's case minority) do fuel their righteous terrorism, but the same can most definately be said of the US. I remember a news item some months or more ago in which Bush II said that he was sent by god to rid the world of evil etc. I personally could not help but think that Saddam probably thought the same. They just believe in different gods and different evils.
Saddam WAS a horrible dictator, responsible for the deaths of a shitload of innocent people, he violated international war for his own vindetta - more power, more $$. But then Bush II has also violated international war - in war against Iraq and in holding people at Guantanamo Bay without charging them and without labelling them as POW's (as this means that they must be sent home at the conclusion of war, Afghanistan is long over), and he is doing this for his own vendetta, more power, more $$ (oil), and the amount of deaths he is responsible for is growing by the day.
And it is widely known that Saddam was at his worst in the 80s (when the US was supplying him with weapons and training for his men) - not to say he has been a prince of late. America just got scared whent hey heard their oil supplies were going to run out long before predicted and so suddenly decided they cared about the poor Iraqis and Saddams suppsed weapons of mass destruction, all written proof of which has been disputed and no physical proof of which has been found. The only way they know he has ever had anything is that they gave him some toys 2 decades ago which I'm sure he had ample time to use in the interum while trying to commit genocide.
And just to clear things up, I hate ...
And just to clear things up, I hate Saddam and I'm glad he's caught, I just hate Bush (both) too.
The bad thing about saddam being caught ...
The bad thing about saddam being caught is that bush might get relected now.... *gulp*
// This is true, the extreme religious ...
// This is true, the extreme religious views of Saddam etc (and n Sadam's case minority) do fuel their righteous terrorism
Hang on, wasn't Saddam running the only secular state in the Arab world? What extreme religious views did he hold?
This is one thing that's baffled me about the whole business... Al Qaeda want a pan-Arabic state run under traditional Muslim law. Saddam ran a secular state. Where's the connection??
and what about the name of the U.S's ...
and what about the name of the U.S's biggest nuclear war ship, Corpus Christi(?) meaning the body of Christ. I find that pretty scary!
//Al Qaeda want a pan-Arabic state run ...
//Al Qaeda want a pan-Arabic state run under traditional Muslim law. Saddam ran a secular state. Where's the connection??
Apparently Bush has a problem with entities containing the letter Q (IraQ, Al Quaeda), hence residents of EQuatorial Guinea are apparently concerned.
Actually, the clear and logical link between Al Quaeda and Iraq is that they have both received money and weaponry from the US to fight communism. The burning question is will the US's war on terrorism be as effective and productive as it's war on communism.
//it's gah. time for a war on ...
//it's
gah. time for a war on grammarianism?
""""U.S is one of the major sponsers of ...
""""U.S is one of the major sponsers of terroism- they basicllay trained Al Quaida so they could fight the Russians out of Afghanistan.""""
they trainned the taleban, who then protected Al Quaida. At the time it probably seemed like a good way to fight the U.S.S.R without having to over commit resources in another region.
//Is attacking with cluster bombs not a ...
//Is attacking with cluster bombs not a deliberate attack? Firing rockets indiscriminately into villages not deliberate attacks?
Surely there must be more effective ways of commiting genocide... Was the goal of firing these bombs and rockets to kill as many people as possible?
//There certainly is a religious ...
//There certainly is a religious element to the terrorism that Al Qaeda partake in, but Saddam Hussein whilst being quite religious himself (although Im not sure it was muslim) ran an incredibly secular state. This is the main reason why Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda hated him so much, as he, in order to ensure his own security, would crack down on any fundamentalists in Iraq.
I suppose Saddam calling for "Jihad" against the evil occupiers counts for naught. Also, I wasn't pointing to Saddam specifically. I'm talking about the terrorism currently taking place in Iraq and the Middle East in general.
And as for Saddam not being a financier of terror - what about the cash prizes for families of suicide bombers?
Fair comments and replies to what I ...
Fair comments and replies to what I wrote folks, I cant be bothered cutting and pasting again, so I'll just go off the top of my head.
I think Saddam's cash prizes for suicide bombers families might have been a little bit like his promise of an army stretching from Baghdad to Palestine in the Palestinians wanted to fight, just words perhaps?
The Americans develop these 'smart' weapons not to avoid civilian deaths but to avoid casualties to their own troops. Which is why instead of sending troops in of late they've just bombed everywhere to buggery.
I don't really think Osama fighting the Russians was that honourable, I mean I know we have the version that paints the USSR forces as invading, but the government of Afghanistan sort of invited them in to help ensure their security, which while it isn't necessarily a legitimate thing to do is done by lots of countries to prop up regimes they like. And the resistance that existed before the Russians had arrived was created almost entirely by the Americans because the Afghan government was tending socialist, and they were worried about a possible union with the Soviets. As far as I understand it all anyways!
That'll do for me I think.
//Surely there must be more effective ...
//Surely there must be more effective ways of commiting genocide
Surely there must be weapons more effective at minimizing civilian casualties than cluster bombs?
""""I could be wrong, but I think that ...
""""I could be wrong, but I think that Osama was in Afghanistan at the time the Americans trained and gave money to the mujhaidden (I spelt that wrong) and received said training and cash""""
yeah he was there fighting the u.s.s.r, that I can almost admire, even though he came from a family of wealth he went out and faught the u.s.s.r because he throught it was wrong.. hes not even of afgan birth.
the taleban came to power after write?
//The bad thing about saddam being ...
//The bad thing about saddam being caught is that bush might get relected now.... *gulp*
But if Bush hadn't been elected ahead of Gore in the first place it is unlikely the US would have interefered in Iraq anyway ... so are you pro-Bush or aren't you Kitten? You ain't making much sense.
"""" its just that the American ...
"""" its just that the American military doesn't bother to try to avoid them for the most part."""
the american military has spend millions upon million in developing accurate weapons as to not kill and destroy everything in its path. The additional deaths are accidents and tragic, but I don't think they go out hoping to just collect a couple, they generally go to great lengths to avoid destroying non military targets. But heck, in the environment they're in at the moment I'm not surprised that they get a little trigger happy. Sucks for both sides.
Just to give my opinion:
Saddam out of power is a good thing,
saddam captured is a good thing,
Coallition handing power over in 6 months is a good thing
but with saddam gone, is the thorne in the side of a possible united fundimentalist islamic arab contentent gone? probably not, but who knows....
I don't think I want to have kids anymore, this world is a hole.
//the american military has spend ...
//the american military has spend millions upon million in developing accurate weapons as to not kill and destroy everything in its path.
or they could have spent millions and millions developing weapons that only sporadically work, but at least made unemployment appear lower, and helped some large weapons firms roll in dosh...
//Corpus Christi(?) meaning the body of ...
//Corpus Christi(?) meaning the body of Christ.
Yes, that is what it means; but it's also a city in Texas, which is what the boat is named after.