// UK women are almost encouraged to abort Down's Syndrome ...
Spin off ..
I was thinking during the whole GE debate about gene replacement therapy and combined with the human genome mapping.. it will be possible to identify "faulty genes" and then replace them with corrective genes.. should we go there?

AKA - i think we should go there, gene therapy would greatly improve the lives of so many people, myself included.

the thing with gene replacement therapy is, most genetic conditions are caused by broken or mutated strands of DNA, all gene replacement does is fill in the gaps, it's not unethical to patch up a heart with a hole in it, it's not unethical to replace limbs, so why should it be unethical to patch up a strand of DNA?

i certainly wouldn't have minded not having severe haemophilia B, given that it's an often crippling condition with practically endless pain, incredibly limiting in terms of travel and contact sports, risky as all hell in terms of disease and infection, the only perks are the prescription painkillers, and the fact that having already endured so much pain i'm not really afraid of it anymore. if you can call that a perk. the free physio, free dental care, and free hospital visits are also pretty good.

but the manic depression, the bullying growing up because kids thought it was funny my limbs swelled up and crippled me when they hit me, kids just love abusing things they don't understand, the absolute terror and months of waiting for the all clear every time the government screws up and inadvertantly releases AIDS or Hep C or CJD into the blood reservoirs, having kids at your primary school tell you their parents won't let them play with you because you might have diseases? ... i wouldn't wish any of that upon anyone. I count myself lucky that i'm not any more screwed up than i already am.

i'm all for weeding out the bugs, anything that could give a child a chance at a full, normal, healthy childhood, not have to endure the absolutely torturous crap i've had to face, is worth it.

the gattaca scenario is a scary one, but not necessarily a likely one, but back to the hole in the heart thing - you don't patch up a heart to create a super-heart, you patch it up to fix what's wrong with it.

i don't mean to rant but obviously i feel quite strongly on the subject :)

Nope, according to the stuff I've been reading (off the durex and femalelife.co.nz sites), that percentage is measured by rate of conception.

Yeah ture, trying to say I'm for as long as people don't use that as there only contraception. That's wrong. I remember hearing girls in school saying things like "Its ok I can just get an abortion". Something like that would really fuck me up mentally I think.

Yeah hi, rape's not about sex, it's about power. Get a grip.

though i hate rape - it is quite natural //

WHAT THE FUCK!!

What she is trying to say is that her man finds it hard keeping his dick in his pants with all the good looking girls around!

It's official. nzmuso is an utter embarrassment to all women. And ... what's the opposite of mysoginist? Oh boy ... I cannot even begin to articulate how concerned I am for this girl.

Ahhhh, I read that book!
"I'm crippled, I'm a magician. I can do magic, like counting."
Neanderthals crack me up.

Actually the opposite is probably a philogynist, but someone who hates men is a misandrist.

// // though i hate rape - it is quite natural

// WHAT THE FUCK!!

Well, rape could be thought of as natural in the same way that murder and war could be thought of as natural.

Rape happens for different reasons, but like Joanna said, it's a violent act, not a sexual act.

I totally agree with ia!! great comment!!!

Ok, let me break this down for everyone, so everyone knows what i mean.

1. Rape is a sexual act. Rape - direct rape - is sex without consent. Sex, in it's essence is procreating. You have sex to produce babies. It is a natural thing (think cavemen) for a man to club a woman over the head, and have sex with her. Just like all insects in the world do it. There are many animals that rape. It's called being in heat. Or as people like to call it - Horny. It's natural. What is un-natural is to suppress this urge. Lets look at this scientifically, not emotionally.

2. I'm against rape. I think it is disgusting, and i pray that it never happens to me, cos i've seen others that have gone through it, and i hope i never have to.

3. Can the boys please confirm for me how hard it is to contro their sex drive. Most of the guys i know are respectable enough to not force sex on girls. But they can all see why someone does it. It is their natural instinct to control the female of the species and procreate.

Please know, i'm looking at this from a scientific - not emotional view point. Girls have no idea what it's truely like for a guy, so please, before you judge guys on their sexual appetite, try explaining to them what it's like to have a period or go through child birth. I'm sure neither party will really understand the full extent of either.

Research? Just look around. Men are stronger, they have more testosterone. They are completely different to females and this feminist movement crap is just that - crap. Good on some chick who can make it to the top of the corporate ladder. Total respect. But i would rather get one of the boys to lift something if i think it would be detrimental to my health. Lifting my fridge. I'd rather another guy help with that than me, cos i dont' have the strength. Men will almost always be stronger than women. Look at our roles in the stone age - the man hunted and gathered, and the woman had children and was basically domestic. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. There are differences between male and female. Yes, i have sexual urges too. But it's not the same as the boys. They're different. Yes, we may enjoy it, and yea, it's great, but it's still DIFFERENT. That's my point. Till you have been a boy, dont' try and say that you could control it. Can you control your periods? It's natural.

Yes, rape is power. Agreed. But it's still natural. SOme boys can get the girls and control them in the bedroom (this is girlfriends and wives), and some look elsewhere. Ever tried actually getting away from your boyfriend if he really wanted you? It's only cos they care for you they won't actually hurt you. But that's when it comes out. He CAN overpower you. Don't ever forget dealing with a drunk / stoned horny male - you may as well be dealing with a brick wall. There are many decent guys i know who i wouldn't be around in that state. Especially not in a mini skirt. Girls mainly have no idea how visual guys are. So when you're out clubbing, and he's surrounded by women in short skirts and tight tops - his urge will go up. Tried having gentle loving sex after him watching a porn flick?

soap .// nzmuso is an utter embarrassment to all women
I disagree, & congratulate nzmuso for bring the topic to the fore.
Whilst I do not agree entirely with all the points made & I have read the Randy Thornhill study, I probably understand what her boyfriend was on about, whether or not this was taken out of context for others I don't know.
I have no problem with seeing tits & arse in advertising, music video's or scantilly clad promotions girls working the crowd at Man interest envents. I not about to be "less selective" (as joanna mentions ) or rape the first available female that appears. But, as a part of my "natural" anatomy I may crack a semi, woody phat, or become aroused in a difficult to disguise way.
The "wild man from within" can be controlled, the public display of readiness is harder to disguise.
The distinction should be made between having the urge, & acting on it.
Society, Morals, Values & Statistics etc dictate that rape is wrong, comparing us with animals removes the context I believe, that says we are more complex individuals that have more advanced brains & therefore have other motivations or drivers that control our behaviours.
Thats my take nzmuso, this may or maynot be representative of how other males feel.

//you going to try to teach morals to a dog? We are all animals. that's all i'm saying.

Wrong. you can teach wrong and right to a dog.
What seperates us from the animals is that we are born with a sense of wrong/right...did someone have to teach you not to murder muesli? I think not.

nz muso - considering some of your previous posts about using sex appeal to sell records and the like, and now with this, it seems you have a very unwholesome view of the opposite sex. I'm not quite sure what kind of guys you associate with, but I'm glad I don't know them.

..and as far as I know even in animals, consentual sex is the norm (hell, most animals have some kind of courting ritual), and rape is still a method of exerting power. The rapist is usually an inferior male - one incapable of taking on the alpha male, who will then force himself on a female to prove he has some control.

I'd really like to hear from limegreen regarding this topic actually - probably he'd have a lot more accurate information than me.

//Please in future listen to what i'm saying instead of reading between the lines. It started as a simple topic.
nz muso, I do understand that you're just as horrified by the thought of rape as any of us; just I think the main thing that people were responding to is this continuous underlying sentiment in your posts of "sure, rape is really bad, but some guys just can't help themselves". If rape is about violence and aggression then it'd easily be seen as something that should be stamped out for the good of society - same as any kind of physical abuse. However, if it's about natural sexual appetites then although it's still bad, it could be viewed as a lesser crime.

The thing that alarmed me is that you're blaming sex-saturated society and media for the prevalence of rape cases, but in the past you've stated that you're very willing to use sex appeal to get men to buy your records.

It's starting to get a bit complex now - people are bandying around words that don't strictly apply:

I think we can all safely state that due to the relative minority of rapists to non-rapists in society, rape is not "normal".

It's something that seems to have a precedent both in humans and in animals so we *can't* say it's not "natural"

Obviously it's physically and emotionally damaging to human victims, so probably it's "bad"

I think the argument that nz muso is putting forward is that it's an act of "incontinence" - a lack of control over one's urges.
The people that disagree (myself included) are saying it's an act of "aggression".

Does that make sense?

// Most of the guys i know are respectable enough to not force sex on girls. But they can all see why someone does it.

have a fucking wank for christs sake.