Finally saw that dvd. And i have to say, thank god we can't buy guns and ammos from "the warehouse" or "k-mart" here. I think i won't go visit America after all now... Or maybe Michale Moore just exaggerated the whole problem?
Finally saw that dvd. And i have to say, thank god we can't buy guns and ammos from "the warehouse" or "k-mart" here. I think i won't go visit America after all now... Or maybe Michale Moore just exaggerated the whole problem?
He's telling you statistics throughout ...
He's telling you statistics throughout the whole movie - how can he be exaggerating them?! Not that I'm saying the movie is free from bias, mind.
I have to admit it has put me off going to the US anytime soon though ...
Nah mate documentaries are usually just ...
Nah mate documentaries are usually just the most subtle form of propoganda. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I loved the film. You've just gotta be able to recognise the bias in the narrative or alternately, do a little research to get the other side of the story. (For instance - and this doesn't really prove Moore wrong as such - in his earlier film 'Roger and Me', there's a number of 'interviews' that aren't really interviews... Moore just lifted them from council promotional videos and sources like that.)
I watched that film awhile ago it was ...
I watched that film awhile ago it was great, he did a good job.
Nah America is not as bad as some say ...
Nah America is not as bad as some say it is. And no Jotun we do not all go around carrying shotguns. That is a stereotype which is not based in fact. What happened at Columbine and other places was terrible and awful. But not everyone carries guns with them out here.
And you know all those statistics about ...
And you know all those statistics about gun shot deaths? They said something like 40,000 people died a year from gun shot wounds. Well, the USA is much much bigger than some of the other countries which its statistics were compared to! I'd be more interested to know the figures as a proportion.
Yeah, that was the main problem I ...
Yeah, that was the main problem I noticed with the stats ... and Thete I know it's probably irrational to let that movie put me off going to America but it's gonna take a Lotto first division win for that to be a possibility within the next 3 years or so anyway, so I'll have time to grow out of it!
Deaths involving firearms, per 100,000 ...
Deaths involving firearms, per 100,000 persons, by State.
from the UN Report of the Secretary-General on measures to regulate firearms (6th session: E/CN.15/1997/4)
a few selected western nations...
Australia: 2.40
Canada: 1.99
Germany: 1.81
New Zealand: 1.35
UK: 1.40
United States: 8.95
So, Americans are at least three and a half times more likely to die of a gunshot related injury than the next western nationality (Australia).
The 'total gunshot deaths' was, admittedly, one of the dumber stats he threw at us in the doco - the raw total figures of deaths were quite impressive, but it would have been very easy to add the proportional figures as well, particularly considering they're pretty damning as well.
What gets me is the figures for third world and developing nations...
South Africa: 64.64
Philippines: 16.89
Brazil: 29.17
Jamaica: 31.60
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oh :) thanks very much for that ...
oh :) thanks very much for that noizyboy
thats still incredibly high isnt it!
i like this movie....
i like this movie.
might score it on DVD this week...
might score it on DVD this week
After reading your Reality TV rants on ...
After reading your Reality TV rants on your site, you might like to stay clear of the movie Confessions of a Dangerous Mind.
Oooh that's another cool movie....
Oooh that's another cool movie.
i enjoyed it, but it's almost ...
i enjoyed it, but it's almost propaganda. the statistics he uses are awfully out of context and the vilification of charlton heston served very little purpose.
i could go on. all i'd say to anyone who hasn't seen it, go in with an open mind and hope you'll come out with one.
I watched it a few weeks ago - twice. ...
I watched it a few weeks ago - twice. Thought it was brilliant.
Though it's noticably sarcastic in some parts of it, i think it was well done to point out a few things. And Jotun was right - i wouldnt' like to be able to purchase guns and bullets at a warehouse... we had a few nutcases at our high school, and i feel safer for most of them not being able to access that kind of thing so easily.
I especially liked Chris Rock's take on it. Make every bullet $5000, and then each bullet would count, as opposed to 17c. Bad for those who do it for recreational purposes, but good for the rest of us joe bloggs who like to know that even though there's a nutcase living next door, at least he hasn't got a gun....
Just my thoughts on it, and i know not all america's like that, but i'm pleased to be living in NZ - at least it seems a lot simpler here.
Though i must say - Michael Moore gave stats on how many fatal gun wounds there were in each country - and i don't think it is that amazing if you take it per head of population, considering how many people there are in the states. But the rest of it was an awesome doco. Would love to see more like that, and i think it was pertinent to the doco to really point out people like charlton heston and Dick whoseflung. (can't remember his name, sorry). People who not only have money, but huge influence and could be doing tonnes better with their time and money rather than what they are doing.
//and i don't think it is that amazing ...
//and i don't think it is that amazing if you take it per head of population, considering how many people there are in the states
But the U.S are at least three and a half times more likely per head of pop.! Is that not amazing to you, barring any cynicism you may already have about the state of their society?
I thought the most shocking discovery ...
I thought the most shocking discovery was when a interviewer said about the news scaring you - then ads focusing on protection etc (cycle) only to find out the facts of crime and all was very slim (specially when he went around that neighbourhood un-announced. Since then i've looked at our news programmes in a different light now and only too happy to just watch sport and weather after 8 simple rules.
That heston interview was pointless, but to moores credit he showed some heart with his farewell.
Manson and South Park interviews were standouts, and are making want to see it again.
I think the heston interview was quiet ...
I think the heston interview was quiet poingent (can't spell, sorry). It highlights not only heston and how unawares he is of the world if he didnt' know these things happened, or his team didn't know they happened, or they are insensitive to the comunity. heston couldn't answer half the questions, and walking away really sucked. Prooves how far away from reality it is. He sleeps with a loaded gun, and he has all these body guards around him. Paranoid i think is what i'd call it.
it just highlights i think how ignorant soem people are, and how people at the top that have "power" dont' often use it well. I like guns. For hunting. For protection. But these people are all in attack mode, not defense mode, and i think personally that sucks. I am a peace lover personally, but i also thinks that hate breeds hate. And it's getting easier and easier and more and more glamourous to have a gun.
Just my thoughts.
i think the best thing about it was ...
i think the best thing about it was forcing k-mart into pro-active change. if nothing else, that makes the doco a success.
The statistics he quotes are out of ...
The statistics he quotes are out of context, to what? The Nra's? Moore is an impassioned and fearless flim-maker attemping to make changes to the social and political mechinisms of his country. wether we agree or not is immaterial, its his desire that earns respect. Discgolfer if the 'average amrican" is not like that re:shotguns, then why is their not a movement of people protesting for political change/ Its obviously bad form to critise a foriegn country but I struggle to believe that the level of ignorance to the US governments continual war crimes cannot be fostering some resentment from those who are having such atrocities 'done in their name". the other option is such dissent is being suppresed. which any veiwer of fox News could well belive.to those in Nz I reccomend a Doco on Rialto 8:30 4/12 Horns and halos a version of 'fourtunate son' a bio of the Bush family. 70000 copies of this book where destroyed in the year 2000, not in the axis of evil but good old USA. If you enjoyed this doco Jotun i reccomened any films by an australian journo called John Pilger, anything by or about Noam Chomsky or even NZ magazine called "Investigate".
I would've though Investigate Magazine ...
I would've though Investigate Magazine was the antithesis to Pilger and Chomsky?
Nexts year mainstream doco? The ...
Nexts year mainstream doco?
The Party's Over starring Moore, Ben Harper and Harry Connick Jr
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I see you took my advice bruce ;-)...
I see you took my advice bruce ;-)
wot advice?!...
wot advice?!
If we hadn't already acertained that ...
If we hadn't already acertained that you indeed were prisonsex / kittenslayer / kittensthlayer, we have now.... :o)
On a slightly different tack, has ...
On a slightly different tack, has anyone read "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore? I highly recommend it.
Good evening Solider, I mentioned those ...
Good evening Solider, I mentioned those three not for political content, more as an example of "idealistic" journalism. Investigate regulary finishes an opinion piece with listings of contary or opposite viewpoint registars/websites etc. this was effectivly done with a study of modern evolution theory vs. Intelligent design as well as 4 schools of current day muslim teaching. I think that this is an effective way to educate readers on resourcing their own opions/belifs, etc. Please do not infer from this post that I am a salesman for any of these authors/publishers. Particulary in the case of Investigate my own belief structers differ greatly from their publishers. With Mr moore's work I would suggest readers/ veiwers check where he is taking his stats from. As you can see from this thread people are missing his point about number of weapon ownership/gun homicide, Why are so many americans dying? his answer I believed was the violence endemic to american society: founded on the genocide of the Native population, the kidnapping of a slave race to do the work, a foriegn policy of terror to secure resources,and a complete dis-respect for international conventions and laws. Remember every single american president since WWII has more civilian deaths accountable to them than saddam Hussein.Yet do we see Jimmy carter at the Hauge world court alongside Slobadon milosivic? Must dash, sorry for prattling on, I think bowl4Columbine was great, anything that hits the mainstream that makes people think needs to be applauded.Manufactoring Consent and the Trial of Henry Kissenger Jotun, check em out.
U've seen "canadian bacon"?...
U've seen "canadian bacon"?
i loved that film. But michael moore is ...
i loved that film. But michael moore is such a opinionated person, even if i agree with him on the whole, the whole time its his opinion being broadcast along with the facts.
Good evening Jotun. No I havent, yes I ...
Good evening Jotun. No I havent, yes I am on wed 11/12 on Rialto. thanks for the reminder I am looking forward to canadin Bacon, even thou Im vegan.