Well i like it....Zed are an awesome kiwi band and its so great to know they're sort of making a name for themselves over in America. Go the CHCH bands!!!
You wouldn't know they're a kiwi band though would you - it's not like they're representing. The video for their crap new single is so commercial and so generic that they could be from any faceless, commercial, generic nation. There's is absoultely nothing in the video, or the song that is distinctively kiwi. So big ups to Zed for being bland enough to appeal to the US market.
We dont really need kiwi in our music. The identity is simply within who we are. To be identified in a leading market is really distinctive in itself. The kiwi bit is there, you just have to listen to the music a bit more..believe me I can hear it. We can never be too good at anything especially our music.
the stlye gurus at his record company spent $300 on his hair for the starlight video........ still unsure wich is worse but they seemed to think it would make the music SELL better
how do you measure commercialness? where is the line that is crossed to make something become too commercial? And once that line is crossed is it really a bad thing to be 'too commercial'? Should everyone strive for obscureness and non-accessibility?
thats easy enough. as the focus of an artist/band shifts from making music because they're passionate about it, to designing music that the majority will like and buy, thats when they become commercial. and if he's going to get a $300 haircut to try and make more people love him, id say they fit that criteria.
Subkoff, I think in this case 'commercial' is just shorthand for 'boring'. I don't think there's anything wrong with being commercial - I like a lot of commercial music, including about half the songs on the first Zed album - but their latest two singles are awfully bland.
Don't know if it's the songs or their production or what, but it looks like Zed are trying to appeal to the US mass market. It's a style that's not particularly popular here; especially not on these forums.
I like your point about having to be obscure and inaccessible, but there's plenty of 'commercial' music that still takes a few risks (in the sense of music that doesn't have an immediate precedent) so it stands out.
the one main problem i see with commercial music is that they are working to a formula of what is popular at the time, and what is most likely to be successful. as a result, lots and lots of music which is cliched and all sounds the same starts to be churned out. i dont think the new zed is original at all, it bores me.
Whatever you guys think, i reckon they're awesome. i love their shit whether it sounds rude 2nd time round, commercial or whatever. Way to go ZED. Dont hate them for being too commercial - you've got to be in the music industry so what you's on about??
I think the real question is what you's on about, buddy. It's too bad $300 can't buy you rock'n'roll credibility.
Zed, like Tadpole before them, make shit music because they are trying to break into the lucrative commercial market. But those who actually truly MAKE IT in music do it on their own terms. Sure, there's plenty of shit bands, usually American, on C4 and Channel Z etc, who are flavour of the month for a year or two. But where will they be in five years time? Back to washing dishes.
The true music legends - the ones that do five, six, seven albums - do it by creating their own brand of music and continuing to innovate. You can bet the White Stripes will still be with us for quite some time, but Nickleback - I think not.
It's true that one person won't always like something that someone else likes, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but personally I find it very hard to find merit in any element of Zed's music.
i'm sick of people bagging a band or any artist for what they do, and it's usually always the bands with success that deserve a bit more respect, if you don't like it, change the fucking channel and stop ya whineing.
kudos to zed they've done a great job gettin as far as they have, i don't like there direction personally, but who am i to criticize them, you could be one of them, were all human
Compare Starlight's chorus with 'there she goes'. Zed are masters at subtly ripping off abominable pop.
I had to smirk when I read in a kiwi music mag one of the guys lamenting the fact that the movie they cut a single for 'was supposed to do 70 million, but only did 7.'
I have to say i love their new stuff, i mean i dont know any of u or anything but i bet most of you arent making a name for yourself as much as they have. I think most of the population of Christchurch would have to disagree with all of you specially the 200+ that packed into the Civic and out the front just to see them play. Zed are amazing and i have to agree with Gashed, it bugs me when people start bagging other peoples music, its hard enough for us local bands to get recognised without having haters out there. We should support Kiwi music no matter what form it comes in
isn't it funny how patriotic we've become about our kiwi music. formerly a self-effacing nation of cynics, we've all of a sudden come to be blindly (and sometimes delusionly) proud of any music with a kiwi connection.
I don't know if it's really like that. It's just like everything else is - the media are gushing praise, and to a certain extent some of the public are too, but the majority of people who regard themselves as having taste and objectivity are same old, same old.
// we've all of a sudden come to be blindly (and sometimes delusionly) proud of any music with a kiwi connection.
nah, the people who rave on about this kind of thing can usually be correctly steriotyped into a 13-17 year old demographic who get their only music influences from what the powers deal out. these people don't count as far as i'm concerned.
there will always be more shit music than good music, thats just a fact.
yes there are alot of dross drinkers out there, leave them to be happy in that place, but if the 200 that went to the civic and saw Zed after hearing them on the radio, 5 people start thinking....... Hmmm live music, I like this, or ..... Hmmm if this is New Zealand music I want more, and go on to see more live bands and start to hear what is on offer and start consuming"good" New Zealand music it's got to be a good outcome.
yeah - you're probably right manamana. it could be that I've been spending too much time around that 13-17 yr old demographic. i need more grown up friends, ones more discerning about music...
i know hardly anyone my age who likes to go and see bands they've never heard of. the furtherest they'll venture is the radio switch, to turn on channel z- if they get that far. its usually the edge or zm. your stereotype is completely correct mana.
Of course I am proud of anything musical relating to us kiwi's because GEE! This is our country, these are our achievements, these are what we have come to produce. Does not go to say that I dig every bit of it. Theres a line between this as well. You have your really great inspirational kiwi artists, & then you got some crappy shit that few people get into to. It doesn't matter to be..i just wont have those ones on my favourites list but I know to appreciate that they are artist in the making & every phase gone through is a learning process to make one better & better otherwise to leave it where it stops.
I am an avid supporter of any NZ Music, cos this is my home, i identify with anything that my fellow peoples are doing. We need to be cynics to a point but whether its liking everything & anything - not really. You can support & appreciatiate, doesn't mean you have to like it. Go NZ Music..We up in there!
To be fair on the kids, there aren't a lot of opportunities to see bands playing outside of R18 venues, what with the whole point (as far as pub/venue owners are concerned) of live music is to get more people through the door who will then buy more piss.
Maybe we need to get more all ages gigs happening to get more good NZ music to the masses?...After all, if it's only fucking Tadpole, Zed, Elemeno P et al that are available for our younger listeners (through all ages gigs), how can they even get a chance to realise the difference between mainstream pap and "good" music?
WE HAVE TO DO IT.....FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.
I think the reason people on these forums get so wound up about ultra-commercial music is this - The fundamental reason, beyond all else, for bands selling out is that they want to get famous and make a lot of money. But I would guess that most of the people posting on this forum have a different fundamental reason for making the music they make: because they absolutely love it. Most of us have probably considered doing the commercial thing (I know I have) but decided against it in favour of being true to themselves. When we see musicians like Zed etc, we see bands that have decided to go for the fame, adoration and security of playing mainstream music, rather than the much riskier but ultimately far more fulfilling route of trying to make it on their own terms, playing the music they really love. And I guess it's pretty annoying, when we're grafting away playing gigs where we either make fuck all or lose money, to see shit bands making megabucks and living the dream. For most of us, it's not because we're less talented, but because record labels don't get dollar sign eyes when they hear us play - it doesn't sound American enough, it's not retro enough, it's too experimental......whatever the reason, it's not really about the music being good or not, it's about what the masses want to listen to.
//I think the reason people on these forums get so wound up about ultra-commercial music is this - The fundamental reason, beyond all else, for bands selling out is that they want to get famous and make a lot of money.
Nah, there's a couple of things wrong with that argument - first you're equating "commercial" with "selling out", which isn't fair. A lot of very proud musicians with full creative control over their music are making radio-friendly pop, and they really like what they're writing/playing.
Second, I think to a greater extent you're wrong, but you're a classic example of the actual mindset here - I think the main reason people get so wound up about ultra-commercial bands is because they believe the music is somehow inferior to their own particular tastes (their tastes are more "raw and real", or more "complex and intelligent") and therefore it doesn't deserve to get the widespread recognition that it gets. It's a class war - everyone hates the middle class.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with complaining about any band, commercial or not. I get really bored with people being all PC and churning out all the same bloody "they worked really hard to be successful so you should give them props anyway" or "they're kiwis so you should support them" or the classic "well where's your band". I'm sure a little bit of backlash won't mortally wound any careers or pride, and it's probably good for them.
good call about the all ages gigs deputy. much agreed. I used to feel so so frustrated when i was in high school and bands like HDU and Shihad would play in shit pubs in the provinces, and I couldn't go. And in fact the only reason I knew about them was because my big sister instilled some good taste in me before she left home. you know if we had a youht radio netowrk with no commercial objectives (like radio NZ) would could actually expose young audiences to better, more thoughtful music...
and i like yr call about people getting irritated by those that do it for the money. I think it is an affront to certain ideals, and if you are someone who has chosen the virtuous, true to yer self option, then it can be awful to watch people saying fuckit to everything and doing what they can to make their own lives luxurious...I'm sounding religious... I'm really just jealous because they've got better stuff than me...
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their old stuff sucks too u know....
their old stuff sucks too u know.
What a hater! Zed is pretty good, not ...
What a hater! Zed is pretty good, not just pretty good, well ahead of many others. How many dudes you know roll like them? Not many, if any..if more.
//How many dudes you know roll like ...
//How many dudes you know roll like them? Not many
thank god
Thanks for that interpretation. Could ...
Thanks for that interpretation. Could you pass me off as talking past tense?
Well i like it....Zed are an awesome ...
Well i like it....Zed are an awesome kiwi band and its so great to know they're sort of making a name for themselves over in America. Go the CHCH bands!!!
You wouldn't know they're a kiwi band ...
You wouldn't know they're a kiwi band though would you - it's not like they're representing. The video for their crap new single is so commercial and so generic that they could be from any faceless, commercial, generic nation. There's is absoultely nothing in the video, or the song that is distinctively kiwi. So big ups to Zed for being bland enough to appeal to the US market.
We dont really need kiwi in our music. ...
We dont really need kiwi in our music. The identity is simply within who we are. To be identified in a leading market is really distinctive in itself. The kiwi bit is there, you just have to listen to the music a bit more..believe me I can hear it. We can never be too good at anything especially our music.
they're too commercial. nathan ...
they're too commercial. nathan apparently spent 300 fricken dollars on his hair!! ew... his hair isnt going to make their music sound any better.
the stlye gurus at his record company ...
the stlye gurus at his record company spent $300 on his hair for the starlight video........ still unsure wich is worse but they seemed to think it would make the music SELL better
how do you measure commercialness? ...
how do you measure commercialness? where is the line that is crossed to make something become too commercial? And once that line is crossed is it really a bad thing to be 'too commercial'? Should everyone strive for obscureness and non-accessibility?
[ http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com ]
thats easy enough. as the focus of an ...
thats easy enough. as the focus of an artist/band shifts from making music because they're passionate about it, to designing music that the majority will like and buy, thats when they become commercial. and if he's going to get a $300 haircut to try and make more people love him, id say they fit that criteria.
Subkoff, I think in this case ...
Subkoff, I think in this case 'commercial' is just shorthand for 'boring'. I don't think there's anything wrong with being commercial - I like a lot of commercial music, including about half the songs on the first Zed album - but their latest two singles are awfully bland.
Don't know if it's the songs or their production or what, but it looks like Zed are trying to appeal to the US mass market. It's a style that's not particularly popular here; especially not on these forums.
I like your point about having to be obscure and inaccessible, but there's plenty of 'commercial' music that still takes a few risks (in the sense of music that doesn't have an immediate precedent) so it stands out.
[ external link ]
the one main problem i see with ...
the one main problem i see with commercial music is that they are working to a formula of what is popular at the time, and what is most likely to be successful. as a result, lots and lots of music which is cliched and all sounds the same starts to be churned out. i dont think the new zed is original at all, it bores me.
ah heather! haha you made that post ...
ah heather! haha you made that post just as i was typing ;-)
They are gay...
They are gay
Everyones gay in their own terms. if i ...
Everyones gay in their own terms. if i dont like something that you like then Im gay.
I think the fact that they released ...
I think the fact that they released another bands b-side as one of their singles says a lot....
Whatever you guys think, i reckon ...
Whatever you guys think, i reckon they're awesome. i love their shit whether it sounds rude 2nd time round, commercial or whatever. Way to go ZED. Dont hate them for being too commercial - you've got to be in the music industry so what you's on about??
I think the real question is what ...
I think the real question is what you's on about, buddy. It's too bad $300 can't buy you rock'n'roll credibility.
Zed, like Tadpole before them, make shit music because they are trying to break into the lucrative commercial market. But those who actually truly MAKE IT in music do it on their own terms. Sure, there's plenty of shit bands, usually American, on C4 and Channel Z etc, who are flavour of the month for a year or two. But where will they be in five years time? Back to washing dishes.
The true music legends - the ones that do five, six, seven albums - do it by creating their own brand of music and continuing to innovate. You can bet the White Stripes will still be with us for quite some time, but Nickleback - I think not.
It's true that one person won't always like something that someone else likes, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but personally I find it very hard to find merit in any element of Zed's music.
right on deputy...
right on deputy
// You can bet the White Stripes will ...
// You can bet the White Stripes will still be with us for quite some time, but Nickleback - I think not.
Well said mate, well said
i'm sick of people bagging a band or ...
i'm sick of people bagging a band or any artist for what they do, and it's usually always the bands with success that deserve a bit more respect, if you don't like it, change the fucking channel and stop ya whineing.
kudos to zed they've done a great job gettin as far as they have, i don't like there direction personally, but who am i to criticize them, you could be one of them, were all human
cheers
-Dave
[ http://www.soundclick.com/heartofifths ]
True that. Thanks for that. I really ...
True that. Thanks for that. I really appreciate others who have respect in the first place.
whenever i hear about zed, i almost ...
whenever i hear about zed, i almost want to puke.
Dont even puke our way! Thats ...
Dont even puke our way! Thats disgusting.
i pity the poor fool who didnt realize ...
i pity the poor fool who didnt realize how crap zed were to begin with- ¿how many records you guys own?- ¿cant you tell the diff?
Compare Starlight's chorus with ...
Compare Starlight's chorus with 'there she goes'. Zed are masters at subtly ripping off abominable pop.
I had to smirk when I read in a kiwi music mag one of the guys lamenting the fact that the movie they cut a single for 'was supposed to do 70 million, but only did 7.'
Yeah, don't quote me on that.
Still pretending.....
Still pretending..
I don't get it....
I don't get it.
You are pretentious aren't you? haha....
You are pretentious aren't you? haha.
Gee, you're like so funny...
Gee, you're like so funny
Starlight is a Weezer cover =w= <3...
Starlight is a Weezer cover
=w= <3
But I'm always right! Damn....
But I'm always right! Damn.
Now you're not pretending, you're for ...
Now you're not pretending, you're for real & yes LCAJMO is a funny cat. I spread my humour on all waves. Catch me through the ball of strings.
Just to clarify - I was thinking of a ...
Just to clarify - I was thinking of a different song - the americanised vid with the dickface lead singer diving in a lake?
I have to say i love their new stuff, i ...
I have to say i love their new stuff, i mean i dont know any of u or anything but i bet most of you arent making a name for yourself as much as they have. I think most of the population of Christchurch would have to disagree with all of you specially the 200+ that packed into the Civic and out the front just to see them play. Zed are amazing and i have to agree with Gashed, it bugs me when people start bagging other peoples music, its hard enough for us local bands to get recognised without having haters out there. We should support Kiwi music no matter what form it comes in
isn't it funny how patriotic we've ...
isn't it funny how patriotic we've become about our kiwi music. formerly a self-effacing nation of cynics, we've all of a sudden come to be blindly (and sometimes delusionly) proud of any music with a kiwi connection.
I don't know if it's really like ...
I don't know if it's really like that. It's just like everything else is - the media are gushing praise, and to a certain extent some of the public are too, but the majority of people who regard themselves as having taste and objectivity are same old, same old.
// we've all of a sudden come to be ...
// we've all of a sudden come to be blindly (and sometimes delusionly) proud of any music with a kiwi connection.
nah, the people who rave on about this kind of thing can usually be correctly steriotyped into a 13-17 year old demographic who get their only music influences from what the powers deal out. these people don't count as far as i'm concerned.
there will always be more shit music than good music, thats just a fact.
//We should support Kiwi music no ...
//We should support Kiwi music no matter what form it comes in
what an utter load of shit. if it wasn't so obvious that you don't know better i'd say swear words and stuff to you.
christchurch is responsible for the worst bands ever to come out in new zealand, so i'm not supprised you lap that shit up.
yes there are alot of dross drinkers ...
yes there are alot of dross drinkers out there, leave them to be happy in that place, but if the 200 that went to the civic and saw Zed after hearing them on the radio, 5 people start thinking....... Hmmm live music, I like this, or ..... Hmmm if this is New Zealand music I want more, and go on to see more live bands and start to hear what is on offer and start consuming"good" New Zealand music it's got to be a good outcome.
.. because like it or not lovers of ...
.. because like it or not lovers of good music are in the minority and always will be
//We should support Kiwi music no ...
//We should support Kiwi music no matter what form it comes in
aaaghhh!! its angsty in disguise!
yeah - you're probably right manamana. ...
yeah - you're probably right manamana. it could be that I've been spending too much time around that 13-17 yr old demographic. i need more grown up friends, ones more discerning about music...
i know hardly anyone my age who likes ...
i know hardly anyone my age who likes to go and see bands they've never heard of. the furtherest they'll venture is the radio switch, to turn on channel z- if they get that far. its usually the edge or zm. your stereotype is completely correct mana.
Of course I am proud of anything ...
Of course I am proud of anything musical relating to us kiwi's because GEE! This is our country, these are our achievements, these are what we have come to produce. Does not go to say that I dig every bit of it. Theres a line between this as well. You have your really great inspirational kiwi artists, & then you got some crappy shit that few people get into to. It doesn't matter to be..i just wont have those ones on my favourites list but I know to appreciate that they are artist in the making & every phase gone through is a learning process to make one better & better otherwise to leave it where it stops.
I am an avid supporter of any NZ Music, cos this is my home, i identify with anything that my fellow peoples are doing. We need to be cynics to a point but whether its liking everything & anything - not really. You can support & appreciatiate, doesn't mean you have to like it. Go NZ Music..We up in there!
To be fair on the kids, there aren't a ...
To be fair on the kids, there aren't a lot of opportunities to see bands playing outside of R18 venues, what with the whole point (as far as pub/venue owners are concerned) of live music is to get more people through the door who will then buy more piss.
Maybe we need to get more all ages gigs happening to get more good NZ music to the masses?...After all, if it's only fucking Tadpole, Zed, Elemeno P et al that are available for our younger listeners (through all ages gigs), how can they even get a chance to realise the difference between mainstream pap and "good" music?
WE HAVE TO DO IT.....FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.
I think the reason people on these forums get so wound up about ultra-commercial music is this - The fundamental reason, beyond all else, for bands selling out is that they want to get famous and make a lot of money. But I would guess that most of the people posting on this forum have a different fundamental reason for making the music they make: because they absolutely love it. Most of us have probably considered doing the commercial thing (I know I have) but decided against it in favour of being true to themselves. When we see musicians like Zed etc, we see bands that have decided to go for the fame, adoration and security of playing mainstream music, rather than the much riskier but ultimately far more fulfilling route of trying to make it on their own terms, playing the music they really love. And I guess it's pretty annoying, when we're grafting away playing gigs where we either make fuck all or lose money, to see shit bands making megabucks and living the dream. For most of us, it's not because we're less talented, but because record labels don't get dollar sign eyes when they hear us play - it doesn't sound American enough, it's not retro enough, it's too experimental......whatever the reason, it's not really about the music being good or not, it's about what the masses want to listen to.
//I think the reason people on these ...
//I think the reason people on these forums get so wound up about ultra-commercial music is this - The fundamental reason, beyond all else, for bands selling out is that they want to get famous and make a lot of money.
Nah, there's a couple of things wrong with that argument - first you're equating "commercial" with "selling out", which isn't fair. A lot of very proud musicians with full creative control over their music are making radio-friendly pop, and they really like what they're writing/playing.
Second, I think to a greater extent you're wrong, but you're a classic example of the actual mindset here - I think the main reason people get so wound up about ultra-commercial bands is because they believe the music is somehow inferior to their own particular tastes (their tastes are more "raw and real", or more "complex and intelligent") and therefore it doesn't deserve to get the widespread recognition that it gets. It's a class war - everyone hates the middle class.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with complaining about any band, commercial or not. I get really bored with people being all PC and churning out all the same bloody "they worked really hard to be successful so you should give them props anyway" or "they're kiwis so you should support them" or the classic "well where's your band". I'm sure a little bit of backlash won't mortally wound any careers or pride, and it's probably good for them.
//That said, I don't think there's ...
//That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with complaining about any band, commercial or not.
Except Augustino. Complain about them and I'll deck ya.
good call about the all ages gigs ...
good call about the all ages gigs deputy. much agreed. I used to feel so so frustrated when i was in high school and bands like HDU and Shihad would play in shit pubs in the provinces, and I couldn't go. And in fact the only reason I knew about them was because my big sister instilled some good taste in me before she left home. you know if we had a youht radio netowrk with no commercial objectives (like radio NZ) would could actually expose young audiences to better, more thoughtful music...
and i like yr call about people getting irritated by those that do it for the money. I think it is an affront to certain ideals, and if you are someone who has chosen the virtuous, true to yer self option, then it can be awful to watch people saying fuckit to everything and doing what they can to make their own lives luxurious...I'm sounding religious... I'm really just jealous because they've got better stuff than me...