the GE Issue doesnt concern me as i have little (if any) interest in it.
im far more concerned about cannabis law reform - thanks to that hypocrite 25 a day Horizon smoker peter dunne i still have to obtain my herb of choice from criminals and risk becoming one myself - yet several of my friends have received criminal records or diversions just cos some chain smoking hypocrite wont let helen clark press on with her proposal to "look into" the cannabis issue.
i know enough about history to say that the macho dickmagnifying machine we call science has caused the death of billions- with ge theyre set to do it all again
//who are you to stop the evolution of the human race//
Humans have virtually stopped evolving. Just so u all know what I mean I'll give u an example...If there's a sudden drop in temperature do we suddenly grow loads of hair? No. We turn up our heaters or put on more clothes.
GE- yea the moratorium was lifted at the end of October..no we aren't all dead yet, because the moratorium being lifted only means that ERMA can accept applications for GE research to be carried out on crops etc, and then maybe released into our commercial market later on. Greater yield of crops is supposed to boost our economy but in countries where GE crops are already grown these have shown no increase and - as soon as find the source I got this from Ill post it - some countries have suffered a loss in export because other countries don't want GE food. Also farmers with GE-free crops that become contaminated have to destroy their entire crop, which is obviously, a huge loss for the farmer.
Contamination between GE-free and GM crops is one of the main issues that I think bothers most people. If there was a 100% guarantee that there would never be any contamination between these crops and u could have a choice of what u were consuming I think there would be much less debate about GE occuring. But since tests have shown that crops even 50m apart can and do become contaminated this is a huge worry.
Nothing ever stops evolving until it's extinct. It's simply not a process you can see. Evolution takes place over multiple generations, not in one single lifespan. People who think humans have reached the pinnacle of their evolution make me sad. I personally think we have much more potential than this.
I also think we're in an evolutionary rut. Evolving in an unproductive direction, so to speak.
//There are alot of people with conditions such as orthostatic intolerance, which with evolution, should improve.//
///Only if nobody breeds with these people, and their genes aren't passed on.///
Nope, that's bullshit. You don't "pass on" orthostatic intolerance, it's something that some people's bodies have. There are a few rare forms of dysautonomia that can be passed on through families, but rarely do these include orthostatic intolerance.
Studies done with over 1000 people with some sort of normal orthostatic syncope, have found it has never run in familes, and is due to things such as skeletal structure, heart valves, growth, drug use etc.
Researchers believe that with evolution, orthostatic intolerance and related conditions will improve.
yeah good one poopsie- what a total bunch of dickchomp- ok here we go
- ge has been present for millions of years and what we are seeing at the moment is the natural evolution of it-
gee- youre right- ge has been round- for millenia- nature seems to know what shes doing- SCIENCE on the other hand has less than 5% of an understanding of the nature of genes & dna- but hooray- youre still gonna go in & fuck around with it- i mean- ¿what could possibly go wrong?- we just feel so FUCKING reassured- after all- sciences track record- in terms of how its protected the planet & life on it- is IMfuckingPECCABLE
- why do we have to question everything?
¿isnt that the fundamental function of science?- ¿are you implying that it should be the EXCLUSIVE DOMAIN of science now?- ¿are the rest of us thick- so we should sit down & shut up?- ¿are you the worlds biggest jiz-slick?
- ¿who are we to stop the evolution of the human race?
reverse the q- if ge goes ahead- & it all goes pear shaped- & we lose large percentages of our food source- & all of this is possible- than evolution- along with ourselves & other species- becomes EXTINCT- also- ¿since when is mans arrogance & desire to play god an evolutionary step?- check your dicktionary retard
- ¿with ge, our economy can flourish?
tell that to the farmers in europe & africa who planted ge & found that it did not hold its promise of increased nutritional value & crop yield- monsanto has closed its offices in europe- ask yourself why
¿is your degree a phd in dorkology- from the university of fuckwit?
So, to you people who are against GE because it MAY have negative effects... Do you also not support things that DO have harmful effects?
Do you smoke, drink, take any other drugs, eat food thats fried in oil etc?
Or even other stuff that MIGHT be harmful, so do you not use cellphones, have an X-ray when your arm's broken, live near high voltage power lines etc?
I'm willing to bet the majority are hypocrites.
velocity what I'm saying is we are in no way evolving at the speed of past human-related species, and have made no significant evolutionary change to the human species for thousands of years. Of course mutations arise and genes that aren't necessary will no longer be expressed, but we're not going to go and evolve into a new species like most of our ancestors are we? Ask anyone with great knowledge in the evolutionary field - try ur local museum - they will tell u the same thing. Evolution evolves because of a change in the environment calling for an adaption/adjustment but humans have developed means of covering this without physically changing by 'evolution'.
oh k thats an interesting response. i feel that in some places you miss the point.
- ge has been present for millions of years and what we are seeing at the moment is the natural evolution of it-
oh k you mentiond nature and 'science' (this quantified thing you speak of). we are talking about evolution here. depsite the fact that nature has its' own fuck-ups, as far as you or i know this could be natures evolution. nature is evolving into science. as say 'as far as we know' because with evolution, we can't see it until it's happened. sure at the moment;
"SCIENCE on the other hand has less than 5% of an understanding of the nature of genes & dna"-
however this just reinforces my point. you can't immeaditley know absolutley everything. with the evolution comes understanding. we are seeing the start of this.
- why do we have to question everything?
no, this isn't the fundamental function of science. i admit it's a pretty stupid statement in that it's too broad - we question evrything by existing. the fundamental function of science is to find out why. the statement was more aimed at my annoyance of many uninformed claims floating around.
- ¿who are we to stop the evolution of the human race?
lena this is the lamest response to any question ever. it is what politicians use. anyone can turn any question around, and make the converse really negative. however as questions make statements, by applying this tact you use all meaning of the statement, and end up filling up space on a page trying to show that you have a convincing argument. however i acknowledge that in places people have jumed the gun, where more time is needed. i am not trying to dispute this at all. it's just that there's a difference between giving it more time and 'keeping it in the lab'. you can't recreate earth's environment in a lab.
¿is your degree a phd in dorkology- from the university of fuckwit?
it took millions of years for hominids to develop their walking ability
are you talking about biological evolution (stuff happening to our pysical bodies) or cultural (stuff like technology)
cause you look at the cultural evolution
its speeding up, if anything
//evolving at the speed of past human-related species, and have made no significant evolutionary change to the human species for thousands of years. //
that is a silly comment, as evolution takes millions of years
just cause you can't see it happening doesn't mean its not happening
//cause you look at the cultural evolution
its speeding up, if anything
I don't know if it really is. I think it's sort of a self-delusional evolution; a cultural pseudo-development, if you will.
Just because trends now have shorter life spans and marketing/capitalism pushes change, doesn't mean we're developing overall. I think the wider situation is similar to fashion, in that the pace of change is quick, yet all that's happening is older trends are being rehashed.
I'm interested to see what happens when this 80's revival dies. They've already mined the other post-war decades - are we going to see teenagers walking round in pinstripe suits and saying 'cheeseboiga' or perhaps even Pride and Prejudice breeches stylez?
We haven't even been upright for very long, there's now way we've stopped evolving. There are alot of people with conditions such as orthostatic intolerance, which with evolution, should improve.
we've been upright for the past 6 million years young lady. Homo sapian is the last evolutionary branch of the hominid. The human skeleton (homo sapian) as a whole hasn't undergone a significant change since the presence of the very first homo sapien skeleton about 40,000 years ago.
of course we are no longer evolving. If anything we're goign backwards. The gene pool is damn weak. The races can freely interbreed, so significant differences present in teh different races are diluted out. If teh races were seperated for a long enough time, different species would have evolved. thanks to social services and modern medicines people that in ancient times would have not been able to pass on their genetic material to teh next generation, are able to. A good example is the fact that on average poor people have more children than rich people. The strong is no longer the one who passes on his/her genetic material, everyone has an equal chance.
no i didnt miss the point- i hit it full on with my 16 wheeler- ¿the fundamental function of science isnt to question?- ¿did your degree come in a krackerjack box?- science asks a question- then it experiments- observes- gathers data- then it aqrrives at a conclusion
¿nature has its' own fuck-ups?-
what science cant understand- it calls a fuck up
¿nature is evolving into science?-
¿who says?- ¿who suddenly put science & scientists on an equal footing with/in charge of this complex machine we call nature?- ¿who made science god?
my lame response is a real possibility- however slight- releasing ge form the lab could cause a calamity the likes of which the world has never seen- imagined even- if you dont accept this- youre not a real scientist- youre supposed to keep your eye on the big picture- in the face of such a risk science should not even consider carrying out field tests- not until such time as it can state 100% for sure that no such risk exists
is there an eg of a ge crop delivering on its promise yet
//There are alot of people with conditions such as orthostatic intolerance, which with evolution, should improve.//
Only if nobody breeds with these people, and their genes aren't passed on. In the past - think thousands of years ago - only the fittest survived. If someone was born with a deformity or what have you they were usually left to die, until species started to show signs of emotions which lead to these genes being passed on. We as humans today look for 'love' not the strongest, healthiest person to reproduce with (debatable of course but on the whole). That's why deformities and allsorts of disease are passed down generations, this won't improve unless people with the genes for these diseases do not interbreed with society. Modern humans appeared 125 000 years ago and the majority of our evolution has been cultural with the development of tools and domestication of animals and crops etc etc. U say evolution takes millions of years but what pressures do we have at the moment for our bodies to change dramatically? We don't have any, and evolution doesn't occur for no reason, it occurs due to a certain need. With increasing technology I'll bet that in a million years time the human race has either died out (probably our own fault) or that, unless some huge crisis like radiation or *something* major occurs which forces the body to adapt, then we will still be virtually the same physically as we are today (maybe taller but nothing major). But of course, none of us will be here to determine that outcome.
//evidance from the growing of rape / canola crops in canda has shown up to a 25% drop in yeild from Ge seeds compaired to "normal" rape seeds, and think about it if you are growing a crop that is round up resistant it for the perpose of being able to spray it where are preivously you left the weeds ..........
You shouldn't eat Rape Seed Oil/Canola anyway. Recent studies have linked its toxicity with something like 70% of blindness in Australia
{
//The genetic material of the substance doesn't enter your dna, or modify it in any way.
// ok, beneficial human genes can be spliced in and grown in huge quantities.
is this a conradiction or are you talking food modification and medical with out clearly stating the difference?
}
The genetic material will not enter your DNA anymore than that of the average tomato. Splicing human genes into bacteria and Yeast etc can help us to produce the necessary quantities of Proteins such as INSULIN which is necessary for diabetics, without which they will DIE
//rude buzzer noise........... wrong
tests done on tomatoes that had genetic material spliced from brazil nuts cause the same type of sever allergic reaction as eating straight nuts... it's not the recombination that is the worry
Allergic reactions are a result of CELLS WHICH YOU HAVE AT BIRTH reacting too strongly to a fragment of a protein or compound, called an EPITOPE. All it takes is maybe 10 amino acids from the protein introduced from the brazil nut to cause the allergic reaction. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was genetically engineered, just the fact that it contains that particular protein
Dont get me wrong, im not saying that we should go around and GE to our hearts content and just forget about the consequences. I definately think that we need to have proper precautions in place to prevent GMO's from taking over
HOWEVER
GE is a very useful tool in the science industry and should not be overlooked because people are jumping on the anti-GE bandwagon without doing the research. Whenever I have jumped on an anti- anything bandwagon (eg: whaling, Nuclear testing) I have always done some research myself so that i can put across an educated point of view. Now in the internet age there is no excuse for anyone to remain ignorant
you absolute retards. ge has been present for millions of years and what we are seeing at the moment is the natural evolution of it. why do we have to question everything? who are you to stop the evolution of the human race? which would you rather consume - something which has been "traditionally" grafted between a few splices of various species, and then exposed to some radiation to speed up the process, or something which has been tested over and over and over again? (with statistics on its' side to be a proven sucess). with ge, our economy can flourish, which will filter through to even our musicians. believe it or not, the scientists don't want to die either!! for fucks sake people, open your eyes. if we want to survive as a country, we have to face some facts. i'm embarresed to think new zealanders are so naieve. and before you ask, 'what do I know about ge?'... i have a degree in it. which also doesn't mean i'm biased. believe me - any negative factors are minimal in comparison to the positive factors of genetic engineering.
///Shhh Carl. It's "cool" to be anti-G.E. You're "cool" right??///
Nice call, there are some many people out there saying they're anti-GE but have no idea about what they're talking about. If they have a good argument, fine, but otherwise it's stupid.
rude buzzer noise........... wrong
evidance from the growing of rape / canola crops in canda has shown up to a 25% drop in yeild from Ge seeds compaired to "normal" rape seeds, and think about it if you are growing a crop that is round up resistant it for the perpose of being able to spray it where are preivously you left the weeds ..........
next please
I really don't see how there can be effects. You're talking about eating something, and digesting its genetic material. The genetic material of the substance doesn't enter your dna, or modify it in any way.
rude buzzer noise........... wrong
tests done on tomatoes that had genetic material spliced from brazil nuts cause the same type of sever allergic reaction as eating straight nuts... it's not the recombination that is the worry
it's still food modification, but for medical purposes. You can engineer stuff like bacteria, but we're talkign specifically about food. Anyway, anything you eat regardless, it's genetic material is broken down by your stomach acids. It's not expressed in your own dna in anyway.
nutritional value of the food ... yes that is possibly true.. but you have to ask yourself why this would be needed?
I don't have this one at my finger tips.. but I can remember Monsanto paying framers in Uganda to grow orange rice that had been altered to contain beta carotene, the irony of it was they pulled out the mango crops which up till that time had been natural source.......
and do remember with Ge food crops they are patented and supposedly unable to independently breed... therefore instead of keeping back a small amount of seed from each crop to grow next years a substance farmer.. i.e. the type who needs to have "nutritional value " added will have buy new seeds every year... so where is the real benifit and who is getting it?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.rover
this site has lots downloadable software,films,and music . It is a british site and does not have much coverage in australia/newzealand
it could do with more links too it on your side of the world.
check it out it has longhorn 4029 , nero 6, office 2003 all downloadable from there free. thanks swatch
This topic/poll is stupid to start, not only is it going to cause fights but it is honestly pointless. If you want to make an effect then protest - or - something people will actauly see.
As for you carl, who are you trying to impress? Mess with you? I dont think anybody wants to mess with someone who thinks they are obviously soo cool . I bet you didn't get out and bash all the protesters did you? ;)
swatch - You realy fuck me off. Longhorn? Honestly if you want to spam I want to kick you :). Longhorn? WTF IS LONGHORN!? (says most people) Not only are you violating go knows how many laws - but - Longhorn is soo unstable and I'd be suprised you could install it. Do you even know anything about Lognhorn? I bet you don't. For a 1337 spammer like you I'm sure you use *nix :).
hahahaha good call aka
so jaco we shouldn't worry about earth now???
we've pushed it tooo far???
i might just go release some CFC's into the air now
see you all soon
i'll be right back
Actually, it would be slowing down the inevitable. Natures been fucked around with, so we could argue it's on it's slow way out. The only way to prolong this is through man-made methods such as G.E., it's never gonna happen that the whole population of humans is gonna work collectively to "save the earth" through environmental crusades.
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the GE Issue doesnt concern me as i ...
the GE Issue doesnt concern me as i have little (if any) interest in it.
im far more concerned about cannabis law reform - thanks to that hypocrite 25 a day Horizon smoker peter dunne i still have to obtain my herb of choice from criminals and risk becoming one myself - yet several of my friends have received criminal records or diversions just cos some chain smoking hypocrite wont let helen clark press on with her proposal to "look into" the cannabis issue.
some anti ge or something protest the ...
some anti ge or something protest the other day made me late. so now im all for it. bring on ge i say. no one messes with me.
hehe dear me, how tragic! late for work ...
hehe dear me, how tragic! late for work by 5 minutes!
all while the governments releasing an irreversable technology we know nothing about!
yay.
what does work have to do with ...
what does work have to do with it?
// we know nothing about
you know nothing about.
yes, i dont know.... do tell me your ...
yes, i dont know....
do tell me your expertise. im dying to hear...
first question- what effect does GE food have on the human body?
we don't know the effects thats the ...
we don't know the effects
thats the problem
just because I/we don't know much about the negative effects of G.E. doesn't mean there are none
How bout your expertise daisygina? ...
How bout your expertise daisygina? Tell me what did you vote?
In my experience 99% of the anti-GE people know nothing about GE to begin with
i know enough about history to say that ...
i know enough about history to say that the macho dickmagnifying machine we call science has caused the death of billions- with ge theyre set to do it all again
Sanfly what do YOU know about G.E.???...
Sanfly
what do YOU know about G.E.???
you have any reason to believe it will ...
you have any reason to believe it will have any effect on the human body? i guess because the bit has been altered it will alter me too.
so anyway this moratorium thing has been lifted now right?
are we all dead yet?
Shhh Carl. It's "cool" to be anti-G.E. ...
Shhh Carl. It's "cool" to be anti-G.E. You're "cool" right??
// It's not expressed in your own dna ...
// It's not expressed in your own dna in anyway.
so what is the point in...
beneficial human genes can be spliced in and grown in huge quantities.
I seem to be missing your point
//who are you to stop the evolution of ...
//who are you to stop the evolution of the human race//
Humans have virtually stopped evolving. Just so u all know what I mean I'll give u an example...If there's a sudden drop in temperature do we suddenly grow loads of hair? No. We turn up our heaters or put on more clothes.
GE- yea the moratorium was lifted at the end of October..no we aren't all dead yet, because the moratorium being lifted only means that ERMA can accept applications for GE research to be carried out on crops etc, and then maybe released into our commercial market later on. Greater yield of crops is supposed to boost our economy but in countries where GE crops are already grown these have shown no increase and - as soon as find the source I got this from Ill post it - some countries have suffered a loss in export because other countries don't want GE food. Also farmers with GE-free crops that become contaminated have to destroy their entire crop, which is obviously, a huge loss for the farmer.
Contamination between GE-free and GM crops is one of the main issues that I think bothers most people. If there was a 100% guarantee that there would never be any contamination between these crops and u could have a choice of what u were consuming I think there would be much less debate about GE occuring. But since tests have shown that crops even 50m apart can and do become contaminated this is a huge worry.
//Humans have virtually stopped ...
//Humans have virtually stopped evolving.
Nothing ever stops evolving until it's extinct. It's simply not a process you can see. Evolution takes place over multiple generations, not in one single lifespan. People who think humans have reached the pinnacle of their evolution make me sad. I personally think we have much more potential than this.
I also think we're in an evolutionary rut. Evolving in an unproductive direction, so to speak.
//There are alot of people with ...
//There are alot of people with conditions such as orthostatic intolerance, which with evolution, should improve.//
///Only if nobody breeds with these people, and their genes aren't passed on.///
Nope, that's bullshit. You don't "pass on" orthostatic intolerance, it's something that some people's bodies have. There are a few rare forms of dysautonomia that can be passed on through families, but rarely do these include orthostatic intolerance.
Studies done with over 1000 people with some sort of normal orthostatic syncope, have found it has never run in familes, and is due to things such as skeletal structure, heart valves, growth, drug use etc.
Researchers believe that with evolution, orthostatic intolerance and related conditions will improve.
yeah good one poopsie- what a total ...
yeah good one poopsie- what a total bunch of dickchomp- ok here we go
- ge has been present for millions of years and what we are seeing at the moment is the natural evolution of it-
gee- youre right- ge has been round- for millenia- nature seems to know what shes doing- SCIENCE on the other hand has less than 5% of an understanding of the nature of genes & dna- but hooray- youre still gonna go in & fuck around with it- i mean- ¿what could possibly go wrong?- we just feel so FUCKING reassured- after all- sciences track record- in terms of how its protected the planet & life on it- is IMfuckingPECCABLE
- why do we have to question everything?
¿isnt that the fundamental function of science?- ¿are you implying that it should be the EXCLUSIVE DOMAIN of science now?- ¿are the rest of us thick- so we should sit down & shut up?- ¿are you the worlds biggest jiz-slick?
- ¿who are we to stop the evolution of the human race?
reverse the q- if ge goes ahead- & it all goes pear shaped- & we lose large percentages of our food source- & all of this is possible- than evolution- along with ourselves & other species- becomes EXTINCT- also- ¿since when is mans arrogance & desire to play god an evolutionary step?- check your dicktionary retard
- ¿with ge, our economy can flourish?
tell that to the farmers in europe & africa who planted ge & found that it did not hold its promise of increased nutritional value & crop yield- monsanto has closed its offices in europe- ask yourself why
¿is your degree a phd in dorkology- from the university of fuckwit?
So, to you people who are against GE ...
So, to you people who are against GE because it MAY have negative effects... Do you also not support things that DO have harmful effects?
Do you smoke, drink, take any other drugs, eat food thats fried in oil etc?
Or even other stuff that MIGHT be harmful, so do you not use cellphones, have an X-ray when your arm's broken, live near high voltage power lines etc?
I'm willing to bet the majority are hypocrites.
velocity what I'm saying is we are in ...
velocity what I'm saying is we are in no way evolving at the speed of past human-related species, and have made no significant evolutionary change to the human species for thousands of years. Of course mutations arise and genes that aren't necessary will no longer be expressed, but we're not going to go and evolve into a new species like most of our ancestors are we? Ask anyone with great knowledge in the evolutionary field - try ur local museum - they will tell u the same thing. Evolution evolves because of a change in the environment calling for an adaption/adjustment but humans have developed means of covering this without physically changing by 'evolution'.
oh k thats an interesting response. i ...
oh k thats an interesting response. i feel that in some places you miss the point.
- ge has been present for millions of years and what we are seeing at the moment is the natural evolution of it-
oh k you mentiond nature and 'science' (this quantified thing you speak of). we are talking about evolution here. depsite the fact that nature has its' own fuck-ups, as far as you or i know this could be natures evolution. nature is evolving into science. as say 'as far as we know' because with evolution, we can't see it until it's happened. sure at the moment;
"SCIENCE on the other hand has less than 5% of an understanding of the nature of genes & dna"-
however this just reinforces my point. you can't immeaditley know absolutley everything. with the evolution comes understanding. we are seeing the start of this.
- why do we have to question everything?
no, this isn't the fundamental function of science. i admit it's a pretty stupid statement in that it's too broad - we question evrything by existing. the fundamental function of science is to find out why. the statement was more aimed at my annoyance of many uninformed claims floating around.
- ¿who are we to stop the evolution of the human race?
lena this is the lamest response to any question ever. it is what politicians use. anyone can turn any question around, and make the converse really negative. however as questions make statements, by applying this tact you use all meaning of the statement, and end up filling up space on a page trying to show that you have a convincing argument. however i acknowledge that in places people have jumed the gun, where more time is needed. i am not trying to dispute this at all. it's just that there's a difference between giving it more time and 'keeping it in the lab'. you can't recreate earth's environment in a lab.
¿is your degree a phd in dorkology- from the university of fuckwit?
haha i wish! dorks are way cooler than me.
oops. you LOOSE all meaning of the ...
oops.
you LOOSE all meaning of the statement.
it took millions of years for hominids ...
it took millions of years for hominids to develop their walking ability
are you talking about biological evolution (stuff happening to our pysical bodies) or cultural (stuff like technology)
cause you look at the cultural evolution
its speeding up, if anything
//evolving at the speed of past human-related species, and have made no significant evolutionary change to the human species for thousands of years. //
that is a silly comment, as evolution takes millions of years
just cause you can't see it happening doesn't mean its not happening
//cause you look at the cultural ...
//cause you look at the cultural evolution
its speeding up, if anything
I don't know if it really is. I think it's sort of a self-delusional evolution; a cultural pseudo-development, if you will.
Just because trends now have shorter life spans and marketing/capitalism pushes change, doesn't mean we're developing overall. I think the wider situation is similar to fashion, in that the pace of change is quick, yet all that's happening is older trends are being rehashed.
I'm interested to see what happens when this 80's revival dies. They've already mined the other post-war decades - are we going to see teenagers walking round in pinstripe suits and saying 'cheeseboiga' or perhaps even Pride and Prejudice breeches stylez?
///Humans have virtually stopped ...
///Humans have virtually stopped evolving.///
We haven't even been upright for very long, there's now way we've stopped evolving. There are alot of people with conditions such as orthostatic intolerance, which with evolution, should improve.
we've been upright for the past 6 ...
we've been upright for the past 6 million years young lady. Homo sapian is the last evolutionary branch of the hominid. The human skeleton (homo sapian) as a whole hasn't undergone a significant change since the presence of the very first homo sapien skeleton about 40,000 years ago.
of course we are no longer evolving. If anything we're goign backwards. The gene pool is damn weak. The races can freely interbreed, so significant differences present in teh different races are diluted out. If teh races were seperated for a long enough time, different species would have evolved. thanks to social services and modern medicines people that in ancient times would have not been able to pass on their genetic material to teh next generation, are able to. A good example is the fact that on average poor people have more children than rich people. The strong is no longer the one who passes on his/her genetic material, everyone has an equal chance.
no i didnt miss the point- i hit it ...
no i didnt miss the point- i hit it full on with my 16 wheeler- ¿the fundamental function of science isnt to question?- ¿did your degree come in a krackerjack box?- science asks a question- then it experiments- observes- gathers data- then it aqrrives at a conclusion
¿nature has its' own fuck-ups?-
what science cant understand- it calls a fuck up
¿nature is evolving into science?-
¿who says?- ¿who suddenly put science & scientists on an equal footing with/in charge of this complex machine we call nature?- ¿who made science god?
my lame response is a real possibility- however slight- releasing ge form the lab could cause a calamity the likes of which the world has never seen- imagined even- if you dont accept this- youre not a real scientist- youre supposed to keep your eye on the big picture- in the face of such a risk science should not even consider carrying out field tests- not until such time as it can state 100% for sure that no such risk exists
is there an eg of a ge crop delivering on its promise yet
//There are alot of people with ...
//There are alot of people with conditions such as orthostatic intolerance, which with evolution, should improve.//
Only if nobody breeds with these people, and their genes aren't passed on. In the past - think thousands of years ago - only the fittest survived. If someone was born with a deformity or what have you they were usually left to die, until species started to show signs of emotions which lead to these genes being passed on. We as humans today look for 'love' not the strongest, healthiest person to reproduce with (debatable of course but on the whole). That's why deformities and allsorts of disease are passed down generations, this won't improve unless people with the genes for these diseases do not interbreed with society. Modern humans appeared 125 000 years ago and the majority of our evolution has been cultural with the development of tools and domestication of animals and crops etc etc. U say evolution takes millions of years but what pressures do we have at the moment for our bodies to change dramatically? We don't have any, and evolution doesn't occur for no reason, it occurs due to a certain need. With increasing technology I'll bet that in a million years time the human race has either died out (probably our own fault) or that, unless some huge crisis like radiation or *something* major occurs which forces the body to adapt, then we will still be virtually the same physically as we are today (maybe taller but nothing major). But of course, none of us will be here to determine that outcome.
//Sanfly what do YOU know about ...
//Sanfly
what do YOU know about G.E.???
Quite a bit actually, im a moleular biologist
//evidance from the growing of rape / canola crops in canda has shown up to a 25% drop in yeild from Ge seeds compaired to "normal" rape seeds, and think about it if you are growing a crop that is round up resistant it for the perpose of being able to spray it where are preivously you left the weeds ..........
You shouldn't eat Rape Seed Oil/Canola anyway. Recent studies have linked its toxicity with something like 70% of blindness in Australia
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//The genetic material of the substance doesn't enter your dna, or modify it in any way.
// ok, beneficial human genes can be spliced in and grown in huge quantities.
is this a conradiction or are you talking food modification and medical with out clearly stating the difference?
}
The genetic material will not enter your DNA anymore than that of the average tomato. Splicing human genes into bacteria and Yeast etc can help us to produce the necessary quantities of Proteins such as INSULIN which is necessary for diabetics, without which they will DIE
//rude buzzer noise........... wrong
tests done on tomatoes that had genetic material spliced from brazil nuts cause the same type of sever allergic reaction as eating straight nuts... it's not the recombination that is the worry
Allergic reactions are a result of CELLS WHICH YOU HAVE AT BIRTH reacting too strongly to a fragment of a protein or compound, called an EPITOPE. All it takes is maybe 10 amino acids from the protein introduced from the brazil nut to cause the allergic reaction. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was genetically engineered, just the fact that it contains that particular protein
Dont get me wrong, im not saying that we should go around and GE to our hearts content and just forget about the consequences. I definately think that we need to have proper precautions in place to prevent GMO's from taking over
HOWEVER
GE is a very useful tool in the science industry and should not be overlooked because people are jumping on the anti-GE bandwagon without doing the research. Whenever I have jumped on an anti- anything bandwagon (eg: whaling, Nuclear testing) I have always done some research myself so that i can put across an educated point of view. Now in the internet age there is no excuse for anyone to remain ignorant
you absolute retards. ge has been ...
you absolute retards. ge has been present for millions of years and what we are seeing at the moment is the natural evolution of it. why do we have to question everything? who are you to stop the evolution of the human race? which would you rather consume - something which has been "traditionally" grafted between a few splices of various species, and then exposed to some radiation to speed up the process, or something which has been tested over and over and over again? (with statistics on its' side to be a proven sucess). with ge, our economy can flourish, which will filter through to even our musicians. believe it or not, the scientists don't want to die either!! for fucks sake people, open your eyes. if we want to survive as a country, we have to face some facts. i'm embarresed to think new zealanders are so naieve. and before you ask, 'what do I know about ge?'... i have a degree in it. which also doesn't mean i'm biased. believe me - any negative factors are minimal in comparison to the positive factors of genetic engineering.
[ http://www.mogwai.co.uk ]
//just because I/we don't know much ...
//just because I/we don't know much about the negative effects of G.E. doesn't mean there are none
but in saying that jon how do we know there are negative effects?
good call pepsi. i dont know much about ...
good call pepsi. i dont know much about it all but i totally agree with you.
///Shhh Carl. It's "cool" to be ...
///Shhh Carl. It's "cool" to be anti-G.E. You're "cool" right??///
Nice call, there are some many people out there saying they're anti-GE but have no idea about what they're talking about. If they have a good argument, fine, but otherwise it's stupid.
Exactly Soph....
Exactly Soph.
ok just for the sake of fun... give me ...
ok just for the sake of fun... give me an argument FOR GE
greater crop yield. The use of harmful ...
greater crop yield. The use of harmful chemicals and pesticides could be no longer needed. There's a simple one for you.
rude buzzer noise........... ...
rude buzzer noise........... wrong
evidance from the growing of rape / canola crops in canda has shown up to a 25% drop in yeild from Ge seeds compaired to "normal" rape seeds, and think about it if you are growing a crop that is round up resistant it for the perpose of being able to spray it where are preivously you left the weeds ..........
next please
// we don't know the effects I ...
// we don't know the effects
I really don't see how there can be effects. You're talking about eating something, and digesting its genetic material. The genetic material of the substance doesn't enter your dna, or modify it in any way.
rude buzzer noise........... ...
rude buzzer noise........... wrong
tests done on tomatoes that had genetic material spliced from brazil nuts cause the same type of sever allergic reaction as eating straight nuts... it's not the recombination that is the worry
yeah well isn't that obvious? I'm ...
yeah well isn't that obvious? I'm talking about more serious things like cancer causation. Anyway, one example doesn't completely destroy my argument.
// next please
ok, beneficial human genes can be spliced in and grown in huge quantities.
oh yeah, the nutritional value of the ...
oh yeah, the nutritional value of the food can be increased dramatically.
// The genetic material of the ...
// The genetic material of the substance doesn't enter your dna, or modify it in any way.
// ok, beneficial human genes can be spliced in and grown in huge quantities.
is this a conradiction or are you talking food modification and medical with out clearly stating the difference?
it's still food modification, but for ...
it's still food modification, but for medical purposes. You can engineer stuff like bacteria, but we're talkign specifically about food. Anyway, anything you eat regardless, it's genetic material is broken down by your stomach acids. It's not expressed in your own dna in anyway.
nutritional value of the food ... yes ...
nutritional value of the food ... yes that is possibly true.. but you have to ask yourself why this would be needed?
I don't have this one at my finger tips.. but I can remember Monsanto paying framers in Uganda to grow orange rice that had been altered to contain beta carotene, the irony of it was they pulled out the mango crops which up till that time had been natural source.......
and do remember with Ge food crops they are patented and supposedly unable to independently breed... therefore instead of keeping back a small amount of seed from each crop to grow next years a substance farmer.. i.e. the type who needs to have "nutritional value " added will have buy new seeds every year... so where is the real benifit and who is getting it?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.rover th...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.rover
this site has lots downloadable software,films,and music . It is a british site and does not have much coverage in australia/newzealand
it could do with more links too it on your side of the world.
check it out it has longhorn 4029 , nero 6, office 2003 all downloadable from there free. thanks swatch
[ http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.rover ]
Download Music Torrents And Other ...
Download Music Torrents And Other Torrent files for software like longhorn 4029 nero 6 with serial etc here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.rover
[ http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.rover ]
This topic/poll is stupid to start, not ...
This topic/poll is stupid to start, not only is it going to cause fights but it is honestly pointless. If you want to make an effect then protest - or - something people will actauly see.
As for you carl, who are you trying to impress? Mess with you? I dont think anybody wants to mess with someone who thinks they are obviously soo cool . I bet you didn't get out and bash all the protesters did you? ;)
swatch - You realy fuck me off. Longhorn? Honestly if you want to spam I want to kick you :). Longhorn? WTF IS LONGHORN!? (says most people) Not only are you violating go knows how many laws - but - Longhorn is soo unstable and I'd be suprised you could install it. Do you even know anything about Lognhorn? I bet you don't. For a 1337 spammer like you I'm sure you use *nix :).
look around us. havent we fucked around ...
look around us. havent we fucked around with nature enough already, i think its a bit to late to say protect the environment and shit now.
oh goodie the house is on fire lets ...
oh goodie the house is on fire lets pour petrol on it, after all it's fucked any way right?
hahahaha good call aka so jaco we ...
hahahaha good call aka
so jaco we shouldn't worry about earth now???
we've pushed it tooo far???
i might just go release some CFC's into the air now
see you all soon
i'll be right back
why not torch a forest while youre at ...
why not torch a forest while youre at it?
Actually, it would be slowing down the ...
Actually, it would be slowing down the inevitable. Natures been fucked around with, so we could argue it's on it's slow way out. The only way to prolong this is through man-made methods such as G.E., it's never gonna happen that the whole population of humans is gonna work collectively to "save the earth" through environmental crusades.