I'm interested in how you write your songs- do they come from jamming, or from sitting down at the piano, or smoking copious amounts of illicit substances? Do you write alone or collaberate with other songwriters? Every musician has their individual method, there's no 'best way,' so tell us how do YOU do it?
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My songs suck. It's not my forte. I ...
My songs suck. It's not my forte. I have great "bits" of songs. A chorus, a great line, not really original sounding tunes, but i'm only learning guitar at the moment, so i guess i'll get it some day. I have some cool idea's for songs, i just find it quite hard to actually write them. I like composing with someone else who plays well, and i find words come easier than music, and it's hard to strum and sing at the same time... again, i guess it'll come with time. I look up lots of sites on songwriting - it's hard, singing comes natural, writing doesnt, but i want to do it. I only have one complete song - and it's ok. It just came to me - i find all the best creative stuff i come up with is normally about midnight-ish -if i'm still up that late! And often just a hook, one or two lines, and it grows from there.
// all the best creative stuff i come ...
// all the best creative stuff i come up with is normally about midnight-ish //
yeah not a bad way to go about it, when you're tired you can sort of trance out and just see what flows out, opiates have a similar effect, though i wouldn't know anything about that ... i reckon it's because you're that much closer to being unconscious your subconscious takes over a little
I think i have to agree. The rest of ...
I think i have to agree. The rest of the day my brain is often in logic mode, and i'm often in bed pretty early, so if i stay up that late, i'm normally so tired, and my brain looses all sense of logical stuff, and just starts to wander. Wish i could turn it on and off - the creative thing that is. I find the hardest thing is to be 100% logical all day in my job, and then come home at night and switch that off - my brain is often still buzzing from teh day's activities, what i have on tomorrow, and if i've forgotten anything from that day.
I have great difficulty writing good ...
I have great difficulty writing good lyrics- it's so easy to fall back on cliches, and so hard to sing the words I really mean. Music/melodies come so easily, but words... I could spend weeks working on words. So frustrating!
Something i've read quite a bit seems ...
Something i've read quite a bit seems to illude to the same thing - the lyrics dont matter much. They do, but the words themselves, though it may be a repeat of someone elses stuff, or a cleche, people are going to remember it, cos they already know it. When you're talking about a feeling, i must say that i find it easier to write what comes, not try and come up with fancy or different ways to say it. I just write what i feel. Eminem is clever with his lyrics, but i must say that i really like the old way of writing. Things were simple back then, but we all know the songs. How many people don't know the song "my girl"? Simple lyrics, but it was a HUGE hit! I think in future i'm going to concentrate on trying to get across a feeling the best way i know how, rather than try for fancy lyrics. Who says simple is wrong or outdated?
The old addage - KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Worked for a couple of generations, most of the old stuff was relatively simple. Eagles rock. Hotel California rocks. Simple stuff. Just creates a feeling.
You're right, of course- the best ...
You're right, of course- the best music doesn't have to be the most complicated music, either in it's lyrics or it's composition. There's tons of complicated, disastarously bad music out there, that's for sure! The brain gets in the way sometimes, absolutely.
What sort of stuff do you write? I ...
What sort of stuff do you write? I find i like everything from silverchair and nirvana, smashing pumpkins etc right through to christina agulera, poppy stuff - and then onto eminem, 50 cent etc too. But i find that i write balads. Simple love balads generally, and i'm writing quite a bit about my mate that died on christmas too, it just comes out sometimes. I miss him so much. Makes for a real "feeling" song. Not just lyrics and music, but pain. I love up beat music, but i'm not good at writing it.... yet.... :o)
I'm a rocker- I've been playing with ...
I'm a rocker- I've been playing with a drummer for a while now who has a really strong style, so I have found myself writing with a drum beat in my head first, then I start hearing the bass/melody in the beats, and the song almost starts assembling itself... at some point way down the track I pick up my guitar and start learning to play it! It's quite different from the way I have normally approached music, although I still pick up a guitar from time to time and let it tell me what to do... I do most of my songwriting without having an instrument handy. It covers a whole range of moods but I don't write angry sounding music. I can do sad, energised, silly, but I left angry behind when I was 18...
Lyrically I have found it hard to avoid sounding like an aerobics instructor... you can do it/inner strength/etc... but I have more to sing about now than I've had for a while, plenty of angst/people I know who have angst etc to tap into :)
Ooops sorry - I was just learning what ...
Ooops sorry - I was just learning what went where? I have now learnt how to post 'publicly'
Good night :-)
I write music without words. Sure makes ...
I write music without words. Sure makes the lyrics aspect easier. ;)
I wish I could do that, but I can't... ...
I wish I could do that, but I can't... I keep hearing 'speech sounds' in my melodies, and sometimes like nzmuso I have a chorus line or something... I'd be selling myself out if I gave up on lyrics! Maybe I need to write songs with more 'do-do-do' or 'yeah' lyrics...
People can sing along to do-do-do. ...
People can sing along to do-do-do. Look at the chicken song. Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na ... na... na... na....
And there's a whole freakin dance to it..... :o)
Thanks for that, that'll be in my head ...
Thanks for that, that'll be in my head the whole way home now...
here's one for ya... this is the song ...
here's one for ya... this is the song that doesn't end... yes it goes on and on my friend.....
:o) hehehehe evil little kelpie.... :o)
Yeah, I think a lot of music quite ...
Yeah, I think a lot of music quite naturally lends itself to vocals.
Quite a few people (OK, I can only think of Peter Gabriel & Brian Eno off hand) sing nonsense syllables to find a vocal melody and then tape themselves randomly riffing on words that might fit those structures. Review the tapes, pick out the good bits, see if you can get something coherent going (or if you care that you can't! :) Particularly if you've got a general idea of a song going it could be quite a fun way to work, I reckon.
Maynard james keenan!!!!...
Maynard james keenan!!!!
RE Peter Gabriel- I had no idea he ...
RE Peter Gabriel- I had no idea he wrote his songs that way- that's something I'm going to try out tonight, just singing jibberish to get a feel for the vowels/consonants I want to hear, then assemble the words around it later. My wife might think I'm going nuts... nope, she already knows I'm nuts...
RE Maynard: Kitten, you're a diehard ...
RE Maynard: Kitten, you're a diehard Tool fanatic, so I know where you're coming from- I used to really dig his vocals but only on the older stuff eg Opiate, Undertow... He has an excellent tenor, and his lyrics are very gritty which suits the music well... but he doesn't really have much of an impact on my music these days. Tool used to write better songs, in my opinion- they seem to have gone a wee bit prog with the last two albums, I don't get it anymore.
U sound like a old dude. *married n ...
U sound like a old dude. *married n stuff*
Kitty, you sound like you dont' know ...
Kitty, you sound like you dont' know what you're talking about - you actually seem to have no grasp on music, it's concepts, musicians, nz music, or anything much. Say something pertinent to the conversation, and something non- personal. Being married or a specific age has not a lot to do with the topic.
Keep to the conversation, and as the old addage goes - if you ain't got nothing good to say than don't say nothin.....
sheesh, whats with the anger? He might ...
sheesh, whats with the anger? He might be old...
//sheesh, whats with the anger? ...
//sheesh, whats with the anger?
awwww, wah fucking wah. Every second post of yours is off-topic, offensive or both, and then you get all injured if someone offends you. Stay on topic, stop making rude, unsolicited personal remarks, and then other people might just stop getting angry at you.
I'm 27 this month...
I'm 27 this month
see!!! Datz all i was trying to ask ...
see!!! Datz all i was trying to ask him!!?? "u ppl have no sense of humour!!!"
27 is young... besides, it's not how ...
27 is young... besides, it's not how old you feel, it's how old the person is that you're feeling...
:o) hehehehe.. sorry!
Off topic... i really dont' think age has anything to do with it eh? You're only 4 years older than me. I'd say there'd be more personal differneces than age anything.
(still off topic) I don't mind if I ...
(still off topic) I don't mind if I come across older than I am- I'm not trying to deliberately fool anyone, I'm just writing what I think... I thinks it's kinda cool, actually!
Anyway, looking forward to creating a new language (jibberish song writing technique ala jet)
// Quite a few people .... // mike ...
// Quite a few people .... //
mike patton does that as well, here's a few quotes:
"They come from my head, my ass, my toilet, my pillow, places like that."
"Do you have any particular influences when you write lyrics?" Patton: "Sure. Everything, absolutely everything. Its just like writing music. Sometimes you draw it from a particular source, sometimes you steal, sometimes you try and think back on how the hell did this start and you can't think about it."
"I think that too many people think too much about my lyrics. I am more a person who works with the sound of a word than with its meaning. Often I just choose the words because of the rhythm not because of the meaning."
- Mike Patton
// RE Peter Gabriel- I had no idea he ...
// RE Peter Gabriel- I had no idea he wrote his songs that way
Yeah, actually I'm not sure he goes through the whole Eno process of recording various takes and pulling things together, but I know he starts figuring out vocal parts without words. I guess it gives you a better idea of how the lyrics need to be structured than if you sit down with pen and paper and write out lines of iambic pentameter or something.
I've heard some bootlegs of U2 sessions and Bono does a similar thing. Just singing away and often totally different lyrics will end up on the finished track. It kind of surprised me, because he's so much the serious, message-bearing type.
most of the songs I've written have ...
most of the songs I've written have just been spur of the moment stuff.....it just came out.
and most of the time i find lyrics to match.
then the other 75% of the time I jam it with my band. (fucken excellent guys)
I don't jam as much as I wish I could- ...
I don't jam as much as I wish I could- so much depends on everone being in the same headspace, but it can be really suprising what comes out of a good jam.
sometimes i tune to drop d and sing in ...
sometimes i tune to drop d and sing in falsetto, helps me to really switch off and chase down the melody. Forget all the chords i know and then piece together what i want note by note, work through all possible inversions. sometimes i tune b up to c then when you play 'a' shaped bar chords you have the 4th in your chord. tune g down to f#. i've written 1000's of songs the 1001 was ok. don't listen to the radio much, really picky about what i allow to influence me, if you put shit in shit will come out, when i find someone that writes what i like i buy every single thing I can get my hands on and sit like a greedy hungry desperate sponge and listen to their songs 100's of times till i get it. don't always get it though some people are just better. have had the same drummer for 12 years. he's a better song writer but he doesn't write. lyrics are like poetry in jail. or poetry on train tracks. or poetry on the motorway. read lots. live lots. write lots. everyone in my band is a better musician than me. i like that. i saw a kiwi band i hadn't heard of play this year and felt like i was 5 years old and had just figured out how to play 'my dog has fleas'. i really like that as well. the writer in that band told me something really cool "there are no rules". 6/8 is cool. 7/8 is crazy cool. sometimes the burning comes when i'm at work and i get in my car and drive home, lay it down, get back in my car and go back to work. i write stuff into my phone a lot. if you struggle from writers block, break up with your girlfriend. if the writers block comes back find a new one. i used to write my songs on bits of paper now i write them in a book. my dad showed me a box full that he has kept, i didn't recognise a single one. some of them made me wonder if i would have been better off in comedy.
:"I don't listen to the radio ...
:"I don't listen to the radio much..."
Yup, I used to live in a flat where Channel Z was playing on the radio above the fridge every morning without fail. That's a sure way to condition yourself towards writing music which always ends up sounding like Nickleback or something... choosing to save yourself from eating a playlist diet for breakfast day-in, day-out makes for healthier songwriting.
I agree that messing around with alternate tunings is an awesome way to wake up the left brain.
I tend to spend about 10 hours a week ...
I tend to spend about 10 hours a week or more with my acoustic guitar and a notebook and pen close at hand trying to be focussed about writing songs....the best stuff comes out when I fall into this strange lucid state were time disapears and at 4 in the morning I realise thatI have 2 new songs and sore wrists (from playing guitar you filthy people).
I reckon the key to writing is application...just doing a lot of it...if you want to be song writer then be a song writer, make that part of your everyday life...blahblahblah
I'm glad you clarified the sore wrists ...
I'm glad you clarified the sore wrists thing....
And seriously, i wish i had your drive and committment. I tend to be quite flittery - i'm workin on it, but as i said - i wish i had even half of your drive and committment.
Yeah, I think sometimes inspiration is ...
Yeah, I think sometimes inspiration is over-rated. Well, the idea that you need to suddenly be hit by a vision or something before you start writing things. I tend to just get in there and write music because it's something I enjoy doing. If I want to blob out after work I'll get writing rather than sit in front of the TV. Of course sitting in front of a computer has its own raft of distractions...
I definitely know that zone where time goes away.
I always feel to caught up wtih time. ...
I always feel to caught up wtih time. I'm far to aware of it - i think cos i almost always have stuff on. Work is very structured for me, and most days it's hard to change over.
No excuse though - i just need to find it in me. :o)
:"I fall into this strange lucid state ...
:"I fall into this strange lucid state were time disapears..."
Yeah I know what you mean there- music/words happen so much more easily if you can just find the time/place to chill out and centre yourself. Very zen.
:"I always feel to caught up wtih time. ...
:"I always feel to caught up wtih time. I'm far to aware of it..."
It's hard to switch off sometimes, I know what that's like- my old job basically turned me ino a stress wreck, and I was bringing it all home with me... literally, the moment I decided to do something about it and switch jobs, my head began to fill with music. So much I find it hard to keep up- which makes my little lyrics problem a little bit tougher!
I just need to recondition my brain ...
I just need to recondition my brain into switch mode. I'm a firm believer that the brain can do anythign if you give it the correct comands. I think though that you have to really want it to, and i've found i'm not very emotional about anythign at the moment, both sad or happy. I think some of it's cos i decided not to deal with my mate dying on christmas day - it is easier to keep it in, im afraid if i let some out, it won't stop! But i understnad also how people go on about blockages and stuff, i've been less creative in the past few years than ever... it used to just flow out of me, now i have to pry it out with tongs!
That's rough, I really can't imagine ...
That's rough, I really can't imagine where you must be at right now. All I can say is that it sounds to me like the best song you've ever written is hiding there just below the surface.
Yep, just below the surface, and it's ...
Yep, just below the surface, and it's tried a few times, but now i have a tune to fit it.... it's sad, i think it wouldn't be a hugely commercial song - mind you the "angel" song that came out a while ago was really sad too... but i really want to get it out for me, and i'd like to give it to the family. I'm sure his sis would love it.
god, I joked about sore wrists and now ...
god, I joked about sore wrists and now i seem to be developing ous...i'm serious...I battled through band practice in wierd pain then went home and couldn't stop myself from playing guitar for another hour....argh..I have get a non computr job its distroying my hands
Since I can't play an instrument to ...
Since I can't play an instrument to save myself, I have to wait for the musicians to finalise what they're doing. Once it's all sorted, I get them to run through it a couple of times so I can just start singing some loose melodies and play around with some ideas. Then, as soon as I've got a feeling for the mood of the song, I can write relevant lyrics.
This means I sorta have to rush myself because the musicians don't want to play over and over again, so I don't like these sort of lyrics as much as ones I write alone, with no tune. But the times I've tried to put pre-existing lyrics into songs have been pretty painful. I wish there was a happy medium between the two.
My ex had a great idea. They'd just ...
My ex had a great idea. They'd just record it all. Even down on a dictaphone is good enough to get the beat nad stuff. Get it down somewhere, then you can write to your hearts content, and they can move onto the next song. Means that there is no one slowing down teh process. by the time you've come up with new lyrics for the first song, they've got the second song recorded for you to start writing lyrics too. If they can keep coming up with good idea's, keep getting them down and even if you end up with lots of tunes without lyrics, or with partial lyrics, at least you've got a lot to keep working on.
Apparently the Foo Fighters don't know ...
Apparently the Foo Fighters don't know what Dave Grohl is going to sing untill they've rehearsed the backing music and got it just right... I couldn't work like that, but it seems to work for Dave!
re: the dictaphone idea I've done ...
re: the dictaphone idea
I've done that, but I actually find that if something doesn't come together fairly quickly that it's often a bit of a lost cause. It's kinda weird, but the best stuff that I've heard and done myself usually just "works" on some otherworldly level... And sometimes there are REALLY good ideas that just don't fit, and you can spend weeks and the end result is still sub-par
J.
I agree, often things just flow - but ...
I agree, often things just flow - but sometimes the other great thing is to put them away somewhere, take them out a few months later and i find often it's like editing a story, sometimes the perfect things just come later.
It's a bit like spinning plates, ...
It's a bit like spinning plates, really... As in the old carnival trick, not some hip new term for being a DJ
You've got the vocal melody, guitar, bass (in a standard rock setup)... And you've just got to make each as hooky as possible.
IMHO it's really tragic hearing a song from a pub band that's got one or two REALLY good hooks... and the rest of the song has sorta just been dribbled out around those catchy bits in order to make it 3 minutes long.
My big problem is avoiding cliche and my subconscious knowledge of music. I'll come up with a great vocal line or guitar line or whatever... then over the course of the next three days realise that I've subconsciously lifted it directly from another song
J.
Don't stress it. John Lennon claimed ...
Don't stress it. John Lennon claimed once that he stole a lot of his songs from other people, then changed them around at the last minute so noone would know.
Yeah, including Beethoven... one of his ...
Yeah, including Beethoven... one of his songs is basically Moonlight Sonata inverted :P
J.