may my condolances go out to Mr and Mrs Burrows over the tragic loss of coral, yet alone it only happened 25km from My House seems even scarier, Theyve got the stepfather facing murder charges, lets hope when hes found guilty beyond all reason of a doubt, he spends the rest of his life rotting in rimutaka prison - better yet if some brave MP gets his way, hang his neck on a rope.
Sadly he won't get a chance to "interact" with the real prisoners.
Because there is always such a high amount of anger amongst the regular prison community, towards sick fucks who do things to children , they have to be housed in seperate wings and/or they get put in seperate specialised facilities such as Ralston in ChCh, so as much as the perpertrator of such a heinous crime deserves to be given some rough love, the chances are very high in his favour that he'll never have to face it.
What has happened is absolutely tragic. My love and support go out to Coral's family and all those who were close to the family. I hope justice gets served. :(
man that sucks....poor family .. . . i was genuinely holding out hope that that stepfather guy was just your typical loutish bogan type, who got into fights at the pub, but never laid a hand on his family.....seems it wasn't to be. .. . man .. that guy will be very lucky if he sees the outside world again
only a few times I agree with you kittenthlyer,
all murders should sent to death!! & not by a injection, let them feel the pain the people they killed feel!!
Death is an escape. AFter that, they feel nothing ever again therefore never worry about anything again or feel any pain or feel bad at all. Sitting in prison for the rest of their lives is much worse a punishment.
innocent until PROVEN guilty, im defending the guy, but just cause the police arrested him over the crime makes him guilty, man you guys are so judgemental and trusting, just cause the coppers say he's guilty he is???
i hate mob situations, take a long think before you just decide he needs hanging
i remember there was a similar responce when david douherty(excuse the spelling) he was accused
//In May of 1993 David Dougherty's trial concluded when he was convicted of abduction and rape in the High Court at Auckland. The eleven year old complainant alleged that Dougherty entered her room while she was sleeping, physically attacked and blindfolded her, gagged her with a sock then dragged her from her house to a vacant property where he tied her to a post and raped her. After this ordeal the gag and blindfold were removed, she was untied and told to go home and say nothing about what had happened or he would kill her.
Dougherty served 3 years of his jail sentence before the charges aginst him were dismissed in a Court of Appeal trial on April the 17th 1997.
How could this amazing injustice happen? As the only witness to this crime was the eleven year old victim her testimony was instrumental in leading to Dougherty's conviction. But the question still remains how is it possible that she identified the wrong man? //
good god, atleast wait till the trial is over before you condem this man to death...
You're right, everybody deserves a fair trial, innocent until proven guilty etc and he hasn't officially been convicted yet. I think most people are jumping the gun because he led the police to where the body was.
It's only natural that it's easier for people to cope when there's someone to blame, someone who can be the target of their grief and anger. In the end there's no making sense of it, there's no explaining why it happened. This won't just go away once he's in prison or whatever- Coral will still be gone. People do need to find other ways to process the way the feel than focus on the act, the suspect and the punishment, but it's hard.
its absolutely tragic yeah :-( i feel sorry for the family. especially since the fuckers probably going to out of jail in 10 years with our shitty justice system.
and to back it up - in 1961 only 3 people where murdered in that entire year alone, in 2002 58 people where murdered. The lenient we get on murder the more there is. New Zealands "justice" system is the sickest in the world.
I agree - there's no point to him being kept alive in this case. Abslutley no possibility (and rightly so) of rehabilitation.
In some cases the state has the right to take revenge against the criminal on behalf of the victim and the family.
Unfortunately this guy will probably spend most of his prision life being kept in solitary, being fed 3 hot meals a day and watching tv.
New Zealand's justice system if anything is the most practical and if you ask me bringing back the death penalty isn't any better than the murderer itself. There are other ways for people to be punished just not the old eye for an eye deal. Would the death penalty stop terrorists on kamikaze missions?
lucifer sam
if you were convicted (wrongly) of a murder
and were scheduled for death
would you still rant for the death sentence???
and solitary confinement is just that
solitary
what would you have to do???
think about things
think about the murder
its not quite as easy as you make out
unless you can provide some experiences to contradict it...
or some examples
the world isn't quite the black and white good vs bad world you currently see
Yes. Punishments work as an effective deterent where a person considers the possible negative outcome (ie, punishment) before committing the act. Hence, premeditated crimes are most likely to deterred by punishment. Crimes committed spontaneously, by the insane, or by the angry are not likely to be deterred by punishment.
And, yes, there is an argument that the death penalty should deter murder. However, analysis of crime statistics suggests that this is not the case (rather like cardboard cut-out cops appear to increase the quantity of lingerie stolen in department stores (in Dunedin at least)).
Yeah fair points of course
there wil alwys be practiclannd ethical questions about the death penalty
I, however don't regard the desire for revenge as negative or wrong, it's natural to seek justice (read punishment) for those who have harmed you or your family.
The idea that 'killing is wrong' is also a bit simplistic - after all we don't apply that argument to the unborn do we?
It is already ok to kill in cerain situtions - armed defenders, police in certain situations, they all have the ability to kill, not to mention the armed forces during war. I don't know if your a die hard pacifist - this may sound stupid but we could all be speaking japanese now if it wasn't for 'state sactionsed killing'.
Believing that everyone is basicaly the same and that killers must have been mistreated as kids as an explanation of their actions is also pretty cowardly.
//However, analysis of crime statistics suggests that this is not the case//
dterence isn't really relevatn ot crimes such as this. who will kill a naturally psychopathic or h]who have no regard for the life of another ussually don't think things through logically anyway.
It's not even relevant. How they should be punished afterwards is.
What is more obscene - killing someone for this type of murder. or letting them live in jail for a couple of decades till they get out. Not a choice I'd like to make but if this guys death helped the family recover- even just a little bit - then thats something. Or maybe I'm wrong.
I didn't feel like much of a 'pacifist' when I first heard they'd caught the guy, that's for sure. There's a distinct difference between the feeling of revenge, and the act of revenge. One's OK, the other- well you might say the other might be 'understandable,' but I still call it cowardice. I mean, that's really the disturbing error of a murderer- not wanting to seperate their feelings from their actions, regardless of the consequences... and yes, everyone has a choice over how they deal with their anger. Choice=freedom=responsibility for your actions.
I agree. However, my understanding is that revenge tends not to reduce suffering (as a general rule). Also, spare a thought for the poor bastard who has to do it. NZ's last executioner was apparently driven to drink. Not a fun past-time. He also screwed up on the last one, and apparently had to grab the guy and hang off him so he would strangle faster (he miscalculated the drop so his neck didn't break)....
Well, I would almost agree with the death penalty on the grounds that at least if they're dead, the government can't let them out again. Apparently the man had about 90 other previous criminal convictions; you just have to ask "why was this man allowed the freedom he had with this track record?" It just doesn't seem right to me that a man who is so at risk should be let back into the community.
I think 'revenge' is a cowardly way of dealing with this kind of loss. And if the state says 'it's ok to kill in certain situations' why would that be seen as a deterent to murderers?
//if you ask me bringing back the death penalty isn't any better than the murderer itself.//
plenty of people would disagree with the death penalty - but do you really believe that!!!! In that case killing for self defence, or killing in warfare would also equate with murder.
Is a murderers life of equal value to that of an innocent? He's had his chance at life - and he's done this. He gets to exist while his victim is gone forever.
I just wanted to add, I really admired the way that Coral Burrow's Dad handled it. I mean, his little daughter was brutally murdered, and he had every right in the world to be furious about it, but instead he said 'go and show your children you love them' (or words to that effect). It took a VERY big man to do that. Hopefully the message will spread to the community...john lennon got it right decades ago, 'all you need is love'
:(...
:(
may my condolances go out to Mr and Mrs ...
may my condolances go out to Mr and Mrs Burrows over the tragic loss of coral, yet alone it only happened 25km from My House seems even scarier, Theyve got the stepfather facing murder charges, lets hope when hes found guilty beyond all reason of a doubt, he spends the rest of his life rotting in rimutaka prison - better yet if some brave MP gets his way, hang his neck on a rope.
Sadly he won't get a chance to ...
Sadly he won't get a chance to "interact" with the real prisoners.
Because there is always such a high amount of anger amongst the regular prison community, towards sick fucks who do things to children , they have to be housed in seperate wings and/or they get put in seperate specialised facilities such as Ralston in ChCh, so as much as the perpertrator of such a heinous crime deserves to be given some rough love, the chances are very high in his favour that he'll never have to face it.
I have to admit, I feel pretty strongly ...
I have to admit, I feel pretty strongly the same way.
What has happened is absolutely tragic. ...
What has happened is absolutely tragic. My love and support go out to Coral's family and all those who were close to the family. I hope justice gets served. :(
Coral was such a cutie and no one that ...
Coral was such a cutie and no one that young and innocent deserves to die like that. my love goes out to Corals family
man that sucks....poor family .. . . i ...
man that sucks....poor family .. . . i was genuinely holding out hope that that stepfather guy was just your typical loutish bogan type, who got into fights at the pub, but never laid a hand on his family.....seems it wasn't to be. .. . man .. that guy will be very lucky if he sees the outside world again
he'll be lucky to last very long in ...
he'll be lucky to last very long in prison, even criminals have a code, you don't hurt kids.
it's so sad, that guy is truely sick ...
it's so sad, that guy is truely sick and deserves all he gets.
:( That is truely sad news, my heart ...
:( That is truely sad news, my heart goes out to Coral's family
i think it was pretty obvious the step ...
i think it was pretty obvious the step dad had at least something to do with her disappearance.
but yeah its sad.
thats supposed to have "from the start" ...
thats supposed to have "from the start" in there somewhere.
They need to kill that fucker!!! NZ ...
They need to kill that fucker!!! NZ should harden up it's pussy laws!!!
In China it's death by firing squad!...
In China it's death by firing squad!
only a few times I agree with you ...
only a few times I agree with you kittenthlyer,
all murders should sent to death!! & not by a injection, let them feel the pain the people they killed feel!!
Death is an escape. AFter that, they ...
Death is an escape. AFter that, they feel nothing ever again therefore never worry about anything again or feel any pain or feel bad at all. Sitting in prison for the rest of their lives is much worse a punishment.
depends on how he gets treated in prison...
depends on how he gets treated in prison
// Sitting in prison for the rest of ...
// Sitting in prison for the rest of their lives is much worse a punishment.
but there's free food and TV!
Hopefully a large angry bull will fuck ...
Hopefully a large angry bull will fuck the lining out of whoever did this.
//but there's free food and TV! and ...
//but there's free food and TV!
and free rent!!
//They need to kill that fucker!!! NZ ...
//They need to kill that fucker!!! NZ should harden up it's pussy laws!!!
i wholeheartedly agree - that scrot rot kiddie fiddling MoFo deserves lucifer_sam style justice.
// depends on how he gets treated in ...
// depends on how he gets treated in prison
People who do nasty things to children don't generally have a very nice time in prison...
innocent until PROVEN guilty, im ...
innocent until PROVEN guilty, im defending the guy, but just cause the police arrested him over the crime makes him guilty, man you guys are so judgemental and trusting, just cause the coppers say he's guilty he is???
i hate mob situations, take a long think before you just decide he needs hanging
i remember there was a similar responce when david douherty(excuse the spelling) he was accused
//In May of 1993 David Dougherty's trial concluded when he was convicted of abduction and rape in the High Court at Auckland. The eleven year old complainant alleged that Dougherty entered her room while she was sleeping, physically attacked and blindfolded her, gagged her with a sock then dragged her from her house to a vacant property where he tied her to a post and raped her. After this ordeal the gag and blindfold were removed, she was untied and told to go home and say nothing about what had happened or he would kill her.
Dougherty served 3 years of his jail sentence before the charges aginst him were dismissed in a Court of Appeal trial on April the 17th 1997.
How could this amazing injustice happen? As the only witness to this crime was the eleven year old victim her testimony was instrumental in leading to Dougherty's conviction. But the question still remains how is it possible that she identified the wrong man? //
good god, atleast wait till the trial is over before you condem this man to death...
i also forgot to ssay i'm not saying ...
i also forgot to ssay i'm not saying hes guilty or innocent
just don't come so fast to the conclusion hes guilty
You're right, everybody deserves a ...
You're right, everybody deserves a fair trial, innocent until proven guilty etc and he hasn't officially been convicted yet. I think most people are jumping the gun because he led the police to where the body was.
the thing is, HE told them where the ...
the thing is, HE told them where the body was. i don't think the trial will take long.
my main concern is, why the hell was there a man with 90 convictions allowed back into the community?!
if he is found guilty, other inmates will deal to him.
It's only natural that it's easier ...
It's only natural that it's easier for people to cope when there's someone to blame, someone who can be the target of their grief and anger. In the end there's no making sense of it, there's no explaining why it happened. This won't just go away once he's in prison or whatever- Coral will still be gone. People do need to find other ways to process the way the feel than focus on the act, the suspect and the punishment, but it's hard.
he might like the rogering up the ...
he might like the rogering up the backside though!
so sad...
so sad
its absolutely tragic yeah :-( i feel ...
its absolutely tragic yeah :-( i feel sorry for the family. especially since the fuckers probably going to out of jail in 10 years with our shitty justice system.
like i say - BRING BACK THE DEATH ...
like i say - BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY.
and to back it up - in 1961 only 3 people where murdered in that entire year alone, in 2002 58 people where murdered. The lenient we get on murder the more there is. New Zealands "justice" system is the sickest in the world.
I agree - there's no point to him ...
I agree - there's no point to him being kept alive in this case. Abslutley no possibility (and rightly so) of rehabilitation.
In some cases the state has the right to take revenge against the criminal on behalf of the victim and the family.
Unfortunately this guy will probably spend most of his prision life being kept in solitary, being fed 3 hot meals a day and watching tv.
exactly my point!!! All of u pussies ...
exactly my point!!! All of u pussies who are soft to kill need to leave to the professionals!!! Life for a life i say!
I don't think it's that simple - I ...
I don't think it's that simple - I mean the state doesn't rape a rapist or steal from those convicted of fraud...
But in this case it's hard to know what else could be appropriate. Death for the criminal just might be the lesser evil... for such extreme cases
New Zealand's justice system if ...
New Zealand's justice system if anything is the most practical and if you ask me bringing back the death penalty isn't any better than the murderer itself. There are other ways for people to be punished just not the old eye for an eye deal. Would the death penalty stop terrorists on kamikaze missions?
//Would the death penalty stop ...
//Would the death penalty stop terrorists on kamikaze missions?
The countries with the highest execution rates tend to have the highest murder rates... suggesting that the death penalty serves no deterrant purpose.
It's not supposed to be, it's a ...
It's not supposed to be, it's a punishment for the crime. Some say it's fair, some say it isn't .
Is any punishmwnt a deterent?
lucifer sam if you were convicted ...
lucifer sam
if you were convicted (wrongly) of a murder
and were scheduled for death
would you still rant for the death sentence???
and solitary confinement is just that
solitary
what would you have to do???
think about things
think about the murder
its not quite as easy as you make out
unless you can provide some experiences to contradict it...
or some examples
the world isn't quite the black and white good vs bad world you currently see
//Is any punishment a deterent? ...
//Is any punishment a deterent?
Yes. Punishments work as an effective deterent where a person considers the possible negative outcome (ie, punishment) before committing the act. Hence, premeditated crimes are most likely to deterred by punishment. Crimes committed spontaneously, by the insane, or by the angry are not likely to be deterred by punishment.
And, yes, there is an argument that the death penalty should deter murder. However, analysis of crime statistics suggests that this is not the case (rather like cardboard cut-out cops appear to increase the quantity of lingerie stolen in department stores (in Dunedin at least)).
Yeah fair points of course there wil ...
Yeah fair points of course
there wil alwys be practiclannd ethical questions about the death penalty
I, however don't regard the desire for revenge as negative or wrong, it's natural to seek justice (read punishment) for those who have harmed you or your family.
The idea that 'killing is wrong' is also a bit simplistic - after all we don't apply that argument to the unborn do we?
It is already ok to kill in cerain ...
It is already ok to kill in cerain situtions - armed defenders, police in certain situations, they all have the ability to kill, not to mention the armed forces during war. I don't know if your a die hard pacifist - this may sound stupid but we could all be speaking japanese now if it wasn't for 'state sactionsed killing'.
Believing that everyone is basicaly the same and that killers must have been mistreated as kids as an explanation of their actions is also pretty cowardly.
//However, analysis of crime statistics ...
//However, analysis of crime statistics suggests that this is not the case//
dterence isn't really relevatn ot crimes such as this. who will kill a naturally psychopathic or h]who have no regard for the life of another ussually don't think things through logically anyway.
It's not even relevant. How they should be punished afterwards is.
What is more obscene - killing someone for this type of murder. or letting them live in jail for a couple of decades till they get out. Not a choice I'd like to make but if this guys death helped the family recover- even just a little bit - then thats something. Or maybe I'm wrong.
I didn't feel like much of a ...
I didn't feel like much of a 'pacifist' when I first heard they'd caught the guy, that's for sure. There's a distinct difference between the feeling of revenge, and the act of revenge. One's OK, the other- well you might say the other might be 'understandable,' but I still call it cowardice. I mean, that's really the disturbing error of a murderer- not wanting to seperate their feelings from their actions, regardless of the consequences... and yes, everyone has a choice over how they deal with their anger. Choice=freedom=responsibility for your actions.
...=consequences as a result of your ...
...=consequences as a result of your actions. I'm glad I don't have to decide what the consequences are.
I agree. However, my understanding is ...
I agree. However, my understanding is that revenge tends not to reduce suffering (as a general rule). Also, spare a thought for the poor bastard who has to do it. NZ's last executioner was apparently driven to drink. Not a fun past-time. He also screwed up on the last one, and apparently had to grab the guy and hang off him so he would strangle faster (he miscalculated the drop so his neck didn't break)....
I could do it if they give me a machine ...
I could do it if they give me a machine gun :P
Well, I would almost agree with the ...
Well, I would almost agree with the death penalty on the grounds that at least if they're dead, the government can't let them out again. Apparently the man had about 90 other previous criminal convictions; you just have to ask "why was this man allowed the freedom he had with this track record?" It just doesn't seem right to me that a man who is so at risk should be let back into the community.
I think 'revenge' is a cowardly way ...
I think 'revenge' is a cowardly way of dealing with this kind of loss. And if the state says 'it's ok to kill in certain situations' why would that be seen as a deterent to murderers?
//if you ask me bringing back the death ...
//if you ask me bringing back the death penalty isn't any better than the murderer itself.//
plenty of people would disagree with the death penalty - but do you really believe that!!!! In that case killing for self defence, or killing in warfare would also equate with murder.
Is a murderers life of equal value to that of an innocent? He's had his chance at life - and he's done this. He gets to exist while his victim is gone forever.
I just wanted to add, I really admired ...
I just wanted to add, I really admired the way that Coral Burrow's Dad handled it. I mean, his little daughter was brutally murdered, and he had every right in the world to be furious about it, but instead he said 'go and show your children you love them' (or words to that effect). It took a VERY big man to do that. Hopefully the message will spread to the community...john lennon got it right decades ago, 'all you need is love'