It's Layne Staley, and I know, what a huge loss! The man was a legend, everyone has their problems, his killed him, thats what you call a tragedy

grunge died when it was born- none of those bands were that great- it was just an incestuous little scene- just like the uk punk scene- apart from one hit each by a variety of bands it was all hot air- held together by safety pins- grunge was hot air in a sears shirt

take the pistols- nmtbhatsp's could have been such a great album- instead it was overproduced at the hands of steve jones- ¿nirvana?- kurt achieved fame when he knew he was only an infant talent- acclaim was undeserved- it's no secret that that's one of the things that killed him- people proclaiming him to be the new lennon or dylan when he new theere was no comparison

he didn't think he'd ever get there- i thought he would have- all those other bands you listed are pretty low impact- get over it

Maybe it's that the Lennons and dylans of the past are overrated.
I find Dylans albums to be pretty unremarkable.
David Bowie, on the other hand, was an absolute genius.

//listed are pretty low impact- get over it //

to you maybe, but thats just crap innit? Its about personal preference, what you get out of music and what someone else (with equal musical experience and knowledge, for arguments sake) may be completely different. Surely even you have to acknowledge personal taste?

that band is not even close to the sum of their parts anyway .. . . tom morello looks to be going through the motions a bit as well

He did spend several months in rehab prior 2 it's release

Im getting sick of listening to alice in chains. They sounded good when i first bought the cd, now they just do it for me as much...

...ha ha- dammit, I was just about to say QOTSA...

...I mean, that would be off-topic. I just thought I'd pop that post there to stop people harping on about old VS new, because there really isn't a contest, there's no winners or losers, blah blah you know the rest...

in the words of faith no mores' cuckoo for caca, "shit lives forever"

// Music and audience taste has changed too much now to allow any real talent to exist.

Can you explain this a bit please? I don't understand what artist talent and audience taste have to do with each other?

Thatsa biga posta.

there are some real gems there, esp in the first list. Sure there's crap that sells heaps and there always has been - the Monkeys for instance , but todays top 40 is comprised of 100% pure crap. - P if you like (haha, er). The possibility that good music COULD reach a mass audience - its was possible - has all but gone since the mid 90's onwards.

As I remeber the Cure had a no. 1 in '91 - when I was 11 - with the single 'High'. But then so did C&C music factory a few months before with 'Gonna make you swaet ('everybody dance now') which was utter crap.
That mix of good and bad is fine - something for everyone I suppose. But just take an hour or two out from your Sunday morning to listen the NZ lowest common denominater top thirty and try not to come to the same conclusion I have.
Even worse try delving into 'alternativism' of today, esp in NZ, bulging at the seems with utterly unoriginal efforts for guys who really should be doing something else - like accountancy.
Some of these you've mentioned, do you really think you'll have those albums in 10 years time?
No you'll have sold them or given them away like I have (ahem Jakob, Meterman) desperatly hoping the next local indie band can bring bach the glory of the 'golden years'.

Pointless, well yes.

...and-a chunky, too...

Well, it's funny what I've hung on to actually. I did have to sell a lot a my tapes when I hit some hard times in Uni, but I'm positive I have a copy of 'Megahitz' floating around somewhere (featuring "Doctorin' The Tardis" by The Timelords), 'Diver Down' by Van Halen as well as Hamilton metallers Blackjack's debut featuring the hit "Now You Fly..." ;)

I don't really give stuff away/sell it. I buy music I really, really like, and most of the time I just don't get sick of playing it! It's like how a certain smell can take you back to your childhood- same deal when I put my old tapes on and hear that familiar hiss...

...but that's the problem, rdor- I mean, just because I'm happy with the music of today doesn't mean you will be too. I'm not going to try and win you over with the stuff I dig. For the record I'm happy with tons of bands that are out there today doing stuff- Trans Am, Guided By Voices, Arcwelder, the almighty QOTSA, damn even some of what SOAD is up to, Folk Implosion, Swervedriver, Ejector, Dimmer, Meterman, K1500 Project...

The other thing is that being open to the music of today doesn't mean turning a blind eye to the past.

But IT IS completely futile to compare. I mean that's just plain wack, dude.

Guided by Voices are the most backward looking band you could imagine.
Asked what he liked in recent music, Robert Pollard simply couldn't come up with anything.
Dimmer's great, but like GBV, it's hardly indicative of modern music trends. Even old Shayny said that P.J Harvey is the only recent thing he's been listening to.
In turn P.J Harvey has described the state of modern popular music as "appalling".
And so you revert ot the 'it's all personal taste' argument that's used to obscure the truly dire state of rock/pop and 99% of the other genres of music made in the last 5 years.
And your right, none of any thing else you mention lights the fire....

Rant ended.

Real human interaction.......but it's much harder to be an opinionatd wanker in-person.
Your not some old guy who wants to feel my arse are you?

...ahhh. I see.

talent = sales back in the day, huh?

Well, the obvious way to test a theory is to turn it around and see if it still works.

sales = talent?

Billboard top 10- 1985

1. "Careless Whisper".....Wham!
2. "Say You, Say Me".....Lionel Richie
3. "Separate Lives".....Phil Collins & Marilyn Martin
4. "I Want To Know What Love Is".....Foreigner
5. "Money For Nothing".....Dire Straits
6. "We Are The World".....USA for Africa
7. "Broken Wings".....Mr. Mister
8. "Everybody Wants To Rule The World".....Tears for Fears
9. "The Power Of Love".....Huey Lewis & The News
10. "We Built This City".....Starship

...about as much junk in that list as there is gold, mate. Just like today.

...No "The New York Dolls, Joy Division, The Cure, The Misfits, The Specials, The Fall, Velvet Underground, Kiss..." in Billboards 1985 Top 10 either.

Billboard Top 10 1995

1. "Gangsta's Paradise" ...Coolio featuring L.V.
2. "Waterfalls" ...TLC
3. "Creep" ...TLC
4. "Kiss From a Rose" ...Seal
5. "On Bended Knee" ...Boyz II Men
6. "Another Night" ...Real McCoy
7. "Fantasy" Mariah ...Carey
8. "Take A Bow" ...Madonna
9. "Don't Take It Personal" ...Monica
10. "This Is How We Do It" ...Montell Jordan

-doesn't look much better for the sales equals talent theory... in my own opinion, obviously...

...are you beginning to see how pointless an argument this is yet?

Instead of boy pop bands, they started making more boy pop rock bands now.

in utero was and is beautiful. exceeds any seattle sound before it. i reckons.
it was never gonna sound like surfa rosa, but gold for going for steve albini.

//and COBAIN was born in TARANAKI
is that really true? because in the book heavier then heaven( the biography of Kurt Cobain) he was not