//Not everyone is a sound engineer u know!!! Stop showing off, gggrrr

i did lights for 8 foot sativa when they opened for dis-turdd.
;p

//up front in the mosh, I really got bugged by not hearing things well.

lots of gigs end up like that. foldback is the only real fill most times and it's got to hit the back wall first before the front row. and it's usually mixed specifically for each musician. tho' it is kind of nice to hear the sounds straight from the amps. (ie front row of tools guitarist, '97. the velocity and pitch was insane!!)
disturbs singer had an ear-piece so he didn't even bother with moniters.
ps, i thought the 8ft sativa soundman did well considering his set up.
they went off.

this gig was in wellingtons starlight ballroom. i don't know if you're familiar with it. but it has concrete pillars running through the whole place. luckily the sound people came from auckland with the prima donna gear.

randoms...
there were grossly huge inch" speakers (feet??) made by the german army for bomb simulations. as in letting off big fuck off blasts that can be heard for miles.
apparently some rave organisers got their hands on a pair...
scary stuff.

don't worry about kittenslayer, his comments don't matter

Tyr using the "reply to post" button, it makes everything alot easier.:P

don't listen to them my child!!! They are just jealous of me!!

yeah that ruled.

Not sure what you mean - are you talking about Engineers that are able to drive the system without blowing it, and still get a good mix/sound?

leno hoe - it is that complex. there's a difference between -

- being able to drive a small PA to it's limit and keep it sounding good

and

- keeping the PA at it's comfortable level, alternatively using it just to fill out the natural sound

In the first, you rely on just the PA to put out sound, not stage sound. In the second, you use the sound mix of onstage amps/foldbacks/drums WITH the PA to make a total sound that fills out.

There's a difference, because of the usual time contraints I am for the first option, but I've seen situations where the second is done - more often for things such as Jazz/Blues groups.

you obviously don't know much- option a you only use in BIG venues- where the power of the pa far outweighs the onstage db's- unless of course you're dealing with a twat of an engineer who'¡s going to ask the band members to play at 1/4 volume so they have full control through the pa- ¿are you one of those twat engineers?- or- ¿do you just need to go back to your tech library & check up some literature/ask tutors?

Haha.. I'm not even gonna bother responding to you Lena, if you want to comment, then e-mail me. It's obvious you're just out to bitch at everyone's posts, and turn all now topics into a slagging match.

:)

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Yeah- the soundguy pieces it all together, a band can only focus on getting things to a level that they're all happy with on stage. I don't like it when the engineer gets the bass guitarist to turn down to nothing on stage so that he can have total control over his stuff through the PA... that really ticks me off actually. The drums start playing and it's "Great- now we can't hear him at all," this has a really negative effect on the group cohesion on-stage.

Our past two gigs there weve just micd the bass drum and gat amps (di for bass). Altho our drummers got an 8 inch deep snare so that bollocks through anything. We havnt been using monitors for anything bt vocals - relying on amps for stage sound. Seems to work well - Reece is a real good guy too....

I reckon the main thing aboot bar gigs is that u pull the vocals up heaps...
often their overriden by the natural sound of all the bands gear.

You hear me sound engineers !?!?!!

I wanna hear the singer!!!!

[ http://www.acidjack.co.nz ]

It's obvious you're just out to bitch at everyone's posts, and turn all now topics into a slagging match?- true- this is how i get my jollies- at the same time understand that even tho i couch things in nasty terms i stand by what i write- & ALL my points are good

Oh yeah, I mean a lot of bands have a very clear idea of what they want to sound like off-stage, and some are articulate enough to be able to communicate with the soundie in a language he'll understand (i.e. other than 'it needs more love in the sound...can you make the guitars sound less cardboard...wah wah wah...') but in the end the band ends up playing, and the soundie ends up engineering, and you have to take into account his idea of the band's best sound, whatever that might be.

>i just can't stand the attitude of a lot of 'sound' people

Yeah, but there's definitely something to be said for having a soundie on YOUR side. Fortunately they aren't all imbociles- at least, I can say I've met many a fine soundie before. Wellington's pretty good for soundies really.

The sound can make or break a performance ... no doubt about it. And bands today are really lucky that many venues have good sound systems in place already. Or you can hire one in for a reasonable fee.

I think that it is very important that bands starting out learn as much as they can about the ins and outs of live sound. A good engineer will be more than happy to share his/her knowledge and experience. Cos the engineer knows that if the band understands sound there is a better chance of getting a good result.

And bands need to accept that sometimes the sound will never be great ... just cos the environment is not conducive to it. High ceilings, brick wall and bare wooden floors make for some interesting challenges.

But I can remember going to gigs, way back in the dim, dark past, where the band had a couple of Jansen or Gunn amps with everything going through them ... and miking the kick drum was not even thought of. So two gats, bass and vocals through a couple of 50 or maybe 100 watt amps with a single 12' speaker. I remember going to a dance (we didn't have gigs back then) at the Manurewa Methodist hall. Roger Sknner and the Motivation were playing. No PA. But man it was brilliantly loud compared to what we were used to. And they played all night! None of this 25 minutes and we're done! Ah the good old days ... Keans Bella Brave 24' bell-bottom jeans and no real bloke would ever got to hairdresser ... they were for girls!

(sheepish look) ...sorry, I'm a little fixated on hair-related stuff lately...

wow man- i'd love to play bass thru a 24' speaker

...heh heh...

//I dunno who the sound guy was but he deserves a Knighthood.

those guys have access to the mickey gear. i can't remember the name of it but this unit acts like white noise. literally it sounds like a tv with no reception. played through the foh pa these things are designed to record the various bouces sound does when projected through all types of venues. the noise will 'measure' the room.
effectively, they can find the best throw the speakers can manage in any venue they visit. so all the sound waves can meet the punters ears in beautiful unison.
i learnd that when i ws a little puppy...

(...enter retort about how Tool always sound like that...)

I actually scored the tickets for free when I did a favour for the promoter, back in the bad old days when I sold mobile phones... The show itself was definitely worth seeing, pitty I don't like the music (at least anything they've done since Undertow)

or you could employ a stack of futtermans & a dynaflo & use your ears