I recently went to a gig by a band I was really looking forward to seeing, I'd heard lots of good things. However I was disappointed when the guitarist had his back to the audience the ENTIRE time, he played to his guitar, and between each song the bass and guitar were retuned. I felt a little ripped off, I didn't pay to see them but I went out of my way to see a 'performance' from a band who I had heard were good. A woman I was sitting with said, some people just want to play music, and I said, "Well they're in a public place, they're getting paid, people they don't know are watching them therefore they're performers aren't they?" She disagreed.
I notice many musicians "just wanna play music" which is a great attitude, it says that the artist will not be a product of half the bull shit that goes on in the industry. But if that's the case, why then, do so many of these artists seek 'performance' gigs in public places, try to sell EP's and make money? If you're happy to "just play music" then are you not happy to play it in your mates garage for 10 years? I don't think so. I'm interested to hear artists views on this.


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which band was it?...
which band was it?
it's not fair to the artist concerned ...
it's not fair to the artist concerned to say.
Maybe the guitarist is shy? but still ...
Maybe the guitarist is shy? but still wants to share his gift?
I've never played a live show, but i do enjoy showing people the music i've made my self and would love to make an EP or even a LP oneday and perform live... but i could also imagine not been interactive as i would be rather shy, for a start at least.
Well, you know, if you're shy you can ...
Well, you know, if you're shy you can look at your feet (see "shoegazer", below), or even just close your eyes and pretend the audience isn't there. Turning your back on the crowd is, by most people's reading of body language, actually something of an affront to the people (who may have) paid to see you perform. I, for one, like to see the expression on people's faces as they play there songs (amusing that they generally are).
Still, each to their own: maybe it was a 'statement'.
I know, I know: "...their songs."...
I know, I know: "...their songs."
yeah it does seem a little rude, but ...
yeah it does seem a little rude, but i'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, something us kiwis can't seem to get grrrr... :)
just remember, some bands have been known to spit at the crowd, thow blood and alsorts... so a back been turned maybe rather nice hehe.
Some performers are naturally very shy. ...
Some performers are naturally very shy. The only way they are going to learn to face their fear is to play live (repeatedly).
I've said this before in another forum, but if I recollect rightly, in the early days of Split Enz, either of (or perhaps both) Tim Finn and Phil Judd were in the backs to the audience kind of mode. And Tim has certainly become an energetic stage presence over time.
I think give em a chance. As they get more comfortable, they will probably learn to interact more.
The band that I saw isn't the ...
The band that I saw isn't the topic...that was all background, the topic is what came of it...the old I "just want to play music" argument, and yes some performers are shy and shyness is fine. But getting up on a stage to "perform" to an audience and then not even doing that properly because it doesn't fit in with "just wanting to play music" I believe isn't fine.
// But getting up on a stage to ...
// But getting up on a stage to "perform" to an audience and then not even doing that properly because it doesn't fit in with "just wanting to play music" I believe isn't fine.
Define 'perfoming properly'.
It's their call as to how they approach playing live - and I don't think theres anything wrong with those people who don't wana 'ham it up' just to make an audience smile and go 'oooohhh look at him / her jiggle'. It's music afterall, the largest percentage of the experience should be from what you are hearing and not what you are seeing (IMHO).
Personally I play music just because I enjoy doing so. In answer to your question of why bands who are 'just in it for the fun' continue to play live gigs, and try and get their music heard the only answer I can you is 'because they can'.
agreed Scott. there's a huge ...
agreed Scott.
there's a huge difference between bands that put on a good show by pretending to be into it, doing all the cliched classic rock pouts and moves, and those who don't. my tastes tend towards the shy bands that don't act like circus animals, but it's obvious they are enjoying it for themselves ... i actually like looking for that. i don't like a band to make it obvious - i don't see that as their business. i want to hear music. i want to be moved by it. of course the band will be too - whether they wiggle their butts or not means nothing. i don't want to spend time freaking out about whether they're putting more brain energy into being stars than concentrating on the music.
concentration on the music - that's all i want to see. and that's virtually impossible to quantify unless you're listening. so yeah, concentration on the music - that's all i want to hear.
I like bands that are enjoying their ...
I like bands that are enjoying their set as much as I am.
I prefer the idea of just wanting to ...
I prefer the idea of just wanting to play music, but I much more love a bit of interaction with the audience. I feel so great when the musician makes eye contact with me & thats all it takes. Don't need to go overboard & tell lame jokes or talk like some people do. I'm just thinking of how cool it was seeing TLBT when Pip or Matt would come to the front of the stage, close enough to touch. You can almost feel the energy there.
There's even a genre for "shoegazer" ...
There's even a genre for "shoegazer" rock.
Maybe you went and saw a "shoegazer" band.
shoegazers are therefore a waste of ...
shoegazers are therefore a waste of space. I can listen to a CD and gaze at my own shoes.
Hey, don't hassle people just because ...
Hey, don't hassle people just because they're from Dunedin!
.......and before anyone gets offended, ...
.......and before anyone gets offended, I must let it be know that I think Dunedin produces some of this country's finest music.
MissStress is obviously not aware that uncool is the new cool.
By that, I mean NU-COOL. (yeah, nice one tclak)
I apologise for the fact I'm having an ...
I apologise for the fact I'm having an illiterate day.
//Hey, don't hassle people just ...
//Hey, don't hassle people just because they're from Dunedin!
somewhere, in fact in Dunedin, a Dunedin musician guffaws outloud at work at tclak's fantastic joke.
// I didn't call Dunedin musos Shoegazers anywhere...where did you get that from tclack?
it's just a common stereotype - think Chills/Clean ... sturdy nodding musical noodlers. so into the music they're like deer in the headlights.
//so into the music they're like deer ...
//so into the music they're like deer in the headlights.
That's beautiful!
Hmm, I didn't call Dunedin musos ...
Hmm, I didn't call Dunedin musos Shoegazers anywhere...where did you get that from tclack?
It wasn't a shoegazer band either, it was actually a hard rock band. And the topic is not about the band concerned, it's about artists "just wanting to play music" when push comes to shove.
tclack is obviously not aware of what this discussion is about.
Don't mind me, I'm just trying to be ...
Don't mind me, I'm just trying to be funny. Lucky I make myself laugh, the world is such an empty place without humour. (Shut up tclak, you're not funny)
Awww, it's awright tclak - I think ...
Awww, it's awright tclak - I think you're funny.
DISCLAIMER: Don't start a stand-up act based on that previous statement.
[ http://www.uslayme.hah ]
Thanks Heather, you make me laugh ...
Thanks Heather, you make me laugh too.
Don't worry about the stand-up thing, I'm not a malicious person.
Whoops, wrong log-in! I'm having a ...
Whoops, wrong log-in! I'm having a bad day.
Wow, you must be, like, the master of ...
Wow, you must be, like, the master of the super-speedy-inadvertent-logout'n'in..
ok,ok,ok so who was the band, we're ...
ok,ok,ok so who was the band, we're all dying to know!
Shoegazers? Someone care to elaborate?...
Shoegazers? Someone care to elaborate?
thats alright tclack....
thats alright tclack.
i think we should be able to shoot all ...
i think we should be able to shoot all artists on site if they falter from the "true" path of art.
but then im not one for order. ahem
excuse me.......
(shuffles out looking at the floor)
There's nothing inherently wrong with ...
There's nothing inherently wrong with shoegazers. I think every band should have at least one.
There IS something wrong with a band having to retune it's instruments between every song. That's just unprofessional.
But what if each song is in a different ...
But what if each song is in a different tuning?
I guess they're too poor to afford ...
I guess they're too poor to afford different guitars for different tunings.
No, my gripe is with musicians whose ...
No, my gripe is with musicians whose instruments are perpetually out of tune with each other and, try as they might, they cannot get them in tune - often spending half the set trying.
I've got nothing against retuning instruments into different tunings - Drop D, DADGAD, whatever - but even that can be approached with a certain level of professionalism (there's that word again). I had a band in Dunedin back in '94 that played in standard tuning except for 4 songs for me, in which I played in Drop D. To make sure that I could make the change as smooth as possible I learnt to drop the string quickly & effectively and we put all the songs together in the set. Later I got a Hipshot key and, after learning how to use that properly, we were able to play any song in our set without any retuning hassles. I even started retuning in the middle of songs - something, incidentally, that James Wilkinson does perfectly without the benefit of a Hipshot.
I don't believe that professionalism (call it Stage Courtesy if you will) is all that hard to achieve. It just takes a bit of practise and effort on the part of the performer, and a willingness to actually care about what the audience may think.
//Stage Courtesy that's exactly what ...
//Stage Courtesy
that's exactly what it is Fud, you're so right. People have gone out of their way to watch and hear you play. They have not gone to watch the back of your shirt, or spend half an hour listening to you tune your instruments.
// something, incidentally, that James ...
// something, incidentally, that James Wilkinson does
// perfectly without the benefit of a Hipshot.
Mr. Wilkinson is, for want of a better word, a freak. He not only retunes mid-song, but some of his tuning malarkey (from memory, haven't seen him play for a couple of years), is actually part of the tune. Unreal.
// ... a band having to retune it's instruments between every song
Yep. Not good. Often it's just bands starting out who don't necessarily have the best gear, or even guys with 'good' gear, that, either way, just refuses to stay in tune. Get a new guitar.
//between each song the bass and guitar ...
//between each song the bass and guitar were retuned
jesus, i should fucken hope so!
i remember seeing David Mitchell play with the 3Ds. more often than not, he had his back to the audience. even when he was singing, his mike was off to the side ... thing was, you didn't want to see what was going on there. sure, it sounded fantastic. amazing. godlike. but somehow, you knew, that if you saw what was going on with his hands and his strings, you'd lose some innocence and go straight to hell.
than man played like he'd made a pact with the devil.
// than man played like he'd made a ...
// than man played like he'd made a pact with the devil.
Thats because he did... and he got the good side of the bargin... I remember seeing Chug play, and I'd been privy to having some nitrous with him and some others before the set.... he could hardly stand up but as soong as he strapped on his explorer he was a maniac with a mission...
Man I miss the 3D's.
i play as a muso i try to perform to ...
i play as a muso
i try to perform to the crowd
i think visual asthetics are a must
play good music and visually provide a symphony
//i play as a muso i try to perform to ...
//i play as a muso
i try to perform to the crowd
i think visual asthetics are a must
play good music and visually provide a symphony
Totally!
Some musicians need to realise that while they're a musician there are certain things that are expected, it's the reality of the music industry. If you're gonna be in it, you gotta work with it or be better than it, and quite frankly I don't envision any bands in the near future changing the face of the NZ music industry.
There's no need to leap around being a namby pamby wannabe rockstar, doing actions that don't relate to anything, but bands need to realise that if you're on stage, you're a performer. period.
hey so what do you do in here...
hey so what do you do in here
hey what doyou all do in here?...
hey what doyou all do in here?
what do you mean lukeygal?...
what do you mean lukeygal?