"we made this stuff! these people helped..."

Its probably a bit much to stick in a cd case fold out i guess...

but if the band has a website, then they maybe able to put a more technical break down of each song on there if they wish to?

// I think it might be something to do with copywriting or something

Yeah, but that's not defined by what's written down in the CD booklet. Some bands list who plays what instrument on each song, and then give credit to the songwriters separately, some just list the instruments played once and then give the songwriters credit song-by-song. It's just a matter of style.

Song 'ownership' is (I think) defined when you file a song with a body like APRA, who collect royalties on the artists behalf. If your band has 4 members, then the proceeds get divvied up according to the proportion of each song that each member has 'written'. A lot of bands start out with the all-for-one attitude, even if one or two of the members are doing a lot of the actual creation of the music. Rock bands where the bass player and drummer are left to their own devices often fall into this trap, and when the royalties start flowing in, the guitarist and/or vocalist, who are probably doing most of the actual creative work start resenting what they see as 'easy money' for the rhythm section. Many a band has come to grief over this sort of set-up, and one of the things you'll hear repeated again and again if you head along to those legal seminars that pop up from year to year is ... "sort out the division of songwriting credits early!"

// otherwise your're going to need a contract for the band its self,
// which probably will restrict any progress

that's exactly what's required, and it shouldn't restrict progress. As long as it's spelled out early on who gets what for doing what, I think most people can deal with whatever split is agreed upon. In my two bands, the first has a singer-songwriter-guitar player who comes up with fully-formed songs that the rest of the band essentially just plays along with. He gets 100% of the songwriting royalties. He then invests all of it back into the band anyway, so, to a certain extent, it's actually a more efficient use of profits than dividing it up four ways and spending it on shoes. None of the other band members have a problem with this at all -- it's blindingly obvious who is writing the songs. The other band work off the theory that one guys comes up with the songs, but the band as a trio work a lot harder on hacking out the musical side of things, so we divide the songwriting credits as songwriter/band (although, in practice, we again give the main songwriter 100% of the royalties, as, again, it's all reinvested into the band). So, technically, I get a third of a half of the royalties from that band, and the principal songwriter gets a half plus a third of a half. Which I think is fair. I'm a pretty lame bass player, and I just have to hack out a couple of bass lines per song to get my share.

To a certain extent, NZ bands never really need to worry too much about this sort of thing, as the amounts involved are so small. But a lot of big overseas bands have come to grief because of resentment over the way songwriting royalties have been divided. The Smiths are a good example, when it became apparent that Morrissey and Marr were getting all the cash, and were essentially keeping Rourke and Joyce on as hired help (being a typical rhythm section, they were largely unaware of the financial setup while the band was active). Now. for anyone who's ever listened to the Smiths, those two guys, and particularly Rourke's bass playing, was an integral part of their sound. It didn't perhaps warrant a quarter share of royalties, but the band might have argued early on that the band split royalties along the lines of Morrissey/Marr/the band, so two minor partners at least get a lesser share. Some bands also organise contracts whereby the lesser members have contracts that entitle them to a percentage of the actual songwriters royalties for a set amount of time, for...

Democracy is all good, but if you write a song that ends up making millions of dollars over the next 50 or 60 years, do you really want to end up sharing that money with a bass player who came up with a pretty bog-standard bassline, played a few gigs with you in the early years of the band, and then ended up sleeping with your girlfriend, trashing your car and leaving the band under in a haze of drug and alcohol problems? These things happen...

There are lots of permutations, and it changes from song to song -- you just need to come up with a formula that works for your band.

// i think i should just be happy to make music

exactly, and that's my attitude to it all. I actually think my third of a half is a bit generous. ;)

// Especially when its there energy creating the song.

yep. Having worked with a couple of guys I consider pretty talented songwriters, it's easy to see they spend a lot of time thinking about the process, experimenting, coming up with stuff and discarding it, and generally getting wound up about it on a higher emotional level than I do. And especially when you bring your song to the band and let them have their dastardly way with it -- that pristine idea they had in their head gets tarnished pretty quickly by a plod-plod bassline and some riduculously busy bassline. Give them the royalties as a compensation for emotional suffering, I say...

riduculously: nz spulling, I suppose, although, it should rully be ruduculussly

and ignore all my typos and whatnot today ... I think I'm having some sort of brain problem after a) getting whiplash from my car being rear-ended this morning and b) staying up all night to watch the cricket.

Yeah, not my 24hrs at all. And things looked so bright at about 11pm there last night.

Still, we roll India in the weekend, take out the Aussies properly next week, and then cane the Sri Lankans in the final. ;)

ahhh, if only bond had had another two overs up his sleeve.

But they never state which chemicals. Surely they deserve song-writing credit ...

// ...string and duct-tape-for-set-list brands you use...

Excellent idea... next release I'm involved in I won't list drums or guitar stuff, I'll list what sorta duct-tape I use, what brand of plyers, what sort of plasters and type of socks I wear...

Sweet

// But they never state which chemicals. Surely they deserve song-writing credit ...

probably more than people would think

Well I needed to make up names so I thought Mr Ego + Superband was amusing :-)