A fairly accurate transcription of an interview by Linda Clark on National Radio from yesterdays Nine to Noon programme.

Introduction announced by Linda Clark:
The Tui awards are New Zealand’s equivalent to Grammies. They’ll recognise the talent of the countries musicians. The awards are organised by R.I.A.N.Z., that’s the Recording Association of New Zealand, and this years awards are being tipped as being bigger than ever. There are more awards. There’ll be like twenty five in all. And more judges deciding who gets what. The ninety judges are meant to have voted on who the finalists should be by today, only here’s the catch; they are being provided with no C.D.s or tapes of the music they’re judging. They’re also judging best video, they’re not giving away tapes of the videos either. Wayne Mason was one of the judges. He’s decided that this is a farce and has pulled out. He joins me now.

Linda Clark: Nice to have you on the programme. Hello.
Wayne Mason: Linda, how are you?
L.C.: I’m very well. Now tell me how was this meant to work?
W.M.: Well, I don’t know. I was, um…I was flattered to be asked to be a judge and I got all the stuff in a package last week and it’s says; ‘please find enclosed’, you know, your voting papers and the reply note, and I said, I thought to myself: ‘Well,ok, my C.D.s must me arriving [the] next day’. When I rang up [the] next day they said there were no C.D.s. And [huffs], and I looked at the list of people I had to vote for and realised, probably about, you know, a third of them, I wasn’t very familiar with what they were doing. And I had to be very particular about how I voted for them. And I looked at those people[‘s names on the list] and I just felt really, really bad. And um, when I phoned up and asked and said; ‘What should I do?’ they basically said; ‘basically vote for what you…’ [laughs] ‘…what you know’. And so, and so I thought I had to resign on principle and that. I felt so bad for the people that… You know… Not saying that the people who are going to win it aren’t, you know, deserving it. But the people that who are up and coming, it’s… I felt very sad for them.
L.C.: Well it’s pretty hard to judge something you haven’t heard isn’t?
W.M.: Well, I suppose going to a fashion show and not seeing it… and judging [laughs], and that sort of thing. I think we all trust that we’ve all heard the stuff so I guess we’re supposed to go out and buy it. I don’t know.
L.C.: Well, but in some of these categories; album of the year, there’s something like twenty two contenders.
W.M.: Yes. I know.
L.C.: Would you have possibly heard all of those albums?
W.M.: No. Definitely not. Um, I’m not familiar with the stuff, I had ten categories to vote for, and I just felt inadequate. And I mean, I think, you know, New Zealand music is fantastic but, but you do need to have it in front of you. And I mean, I thought there’s probably another thing we could have done about that. I know it’s a lot of judges but in a bigger sense of a presentation, like awards, I think probably that’s not too bad, or maybe we could have had a [web]site with it on and download it or something. But um, I just feel it’s…
L.C.: Well it certainly puts the lesser known bands at a tremendous disadvantage.
W.M.: Oh totally. Totally… yeah. If I was a band with a record in it and I, you know, it’s big thing for bands, it a big career thing if you win something. You’d real want to feel that you had a show, and that’s the people that I feel for. I feel that they’ve been short changed badly.
L.C.: Alright, stay with us. Mark Ashbridge is C.E.O. of Festival Mushroom Records, he’s also spokesperson for the 2003 [Tui] music awards. He joins me now. Hello, nice to have you on the programme.
Mark Ashbridge: Good morning Linda.
L.C.: And Jim Moss, who is with Jayrem Records. He also joins me. Hello.
Jim Moss: Hello Linda.
L.C.: Mark, to you first; how do you expect this music to be judged?
M.A.: Well just, um, Linda, for the benefit of your listeners, I’m on the awards committee and I’m spokesman this year. However, I’m not on the judging eligibility committee so I may be limited to some of the answers I can give you, but, um…
L.C.: You are none the less the person that has been…
M.A.: [speaks over L.C.] Correct, correct.
L.C.: …that has been put forward to speak on this matter, so how are they meant to be judged?
M.A.: Pardon me, Linda?
L.C.: How are they meant to be judged?
M.A.: Ah, this year, we’ve, um, selected; we’ve split their judging this year. We’ve looked at the more commercial awards. Eleven of those twenty five awards are going to be judged by an academy of ninety judges and the other awards will be will be judged by specialist people in those specialist areas. Now, the ninety people that we’ve selected are from, ah, the wider New Zealand music community, and, um. They basically are meant to have sound knowledge of the [clears throat] nominations. And I sort of liken that to perhaps something like the N.M.E. awards; where, um, at the end of the year, when they vote [on] their top fifty it’s very unlikely that they go and listen to all of those records again. They would know, they would have a feel for it of the course of the last twelve months.
L.C.: So, basically; you’ve sent out the judging forms to people who you are sure will have heard this music before hand?
M.A.: Yes. We’ve had an overwhelmingly positive response to date, actually. Only three of the ninety judges have felt that they are unable to, uh, contribute in the judging.
L.C.: [speaks over M.A.] Alright. O.K. Let’s just hold it there for a moment. Wayne Mason, when you’ve got your form, you clearly had not seen or heard all of this music?
W.M.: I hadn’t. No. Definitely had not…
L.C.: [speaks over W.M.] And had you talked to any of the other judges?
W.M.: …some of them [the musicians] I don’t know [about]. And you can’t just also hear it. I just don’t know [any of the musicians]… There’s quite a lot of New Zealand music now and it’s all over, quite like a bulk of work basically. And if I’m a person in the music business industry, a sort of representative musician, I don’t get to hear a lot of everything that has been made. So I mean, I’m disadvantaged in that respect. A lot of it I do know. Some of it I do know, some of it I don’t. And I think it’s, um, not right, really.
M.A.: Can I just say, Linda, that in this instance perhaps that Wayne is probably right in, in pulling out because, you know, I must reiterate, so far, today is the end of the judging and we’ve actually on had three people out of the ninety [withdraw from judging] and, you know, and we’re really comfortable. We feel we’re on track with the judging process.
L.C.: I’m not sure that the fact that only three have pulled out proves that much. I was speaking to Wayne Moart this morning, who of course our listeners will know as a presenter on National Radio. He is also a judge [for the 2003 Tui awards]. I have his judging forms in front of me. He was hoping to fill them out today, but I’ve nabbed them, in the mean time we’ve got them in the studio. Wayne [Moart] is a judge in the best urban album category. There are one, two, three, four, five, six albums in that category. When Wayne [Moart] and I had a conversation this morning he had not heard any of those albums. He’s also a judge in the best dance category. Again there are six…
M.A.: Correct. These are all mainstream awards Linda.
L.C.: Well, but heard these albums. He’s the first to put up his hand and say he hasn’t heard these albums. How could he possibly judge them?
M.A.: I can, I can actually, I can only go back to the fact that only three are unable to perform the judging process. We feel that it is an overwhelming success.
L.C.: So the fact people don’t put up their hand and say… I mean, actually, you know I think what Wayne Mason is doing is kind of a brave thing. If you’re a real muso, to put up your hand and say to your colleagues; ‘I am not an expert on New Zealand music. I haven’t heard all of the latest C.D.s’. That’s quite a brave thing. I mean, maybe many of your judges just don’t want to be outed in that way?
M.A.: I don’t think so. Cause we’ve had the applications, we’ve had the judging processes, um, coming through now, so…
L.C.: [interrupts M.A] Well, they’ve only got the forms last week.
M.A.: That’s fine. This year we decided that we would have a shorted judging process because we tended to have, um, difficulty in collecting them all, so…
L.C.: [interrupts M.A.] In the past, let’s be clear, you have provided music.
M.A.: Pardon me?
L.C.: In the past you have provided your judges with music.
M.A.: This year, um, we chose to take a different route, similar to that of the Brits [music awards] and the Australian music awards, where by we increased the judging panel and we carefully selected…
L.C.: [speaks over M.A.] My understanding is that in the Brit awards they still provide them with music.
M.A.: [speaks over L.C.] Just let me finish please, Linda, for the benefit of your listeners…
M.A.: May I finish? Um… We carefully selected those judges so that they; we felt that would have, um, enough knowledge to complete the judging process. These are eleven mainstream awards. Now can I suggest that if Wayne and, and, and various, some of the other people don’t feel qualified to do that then it’s probably right that they actually say, you know, that they can’t complete the judging process. But to date, I must stress, that we’ve had eighty seven of ninety who seem to have had no problem with this process.
L.C.: I’ve just been told actually that Wayne Moart has also pulled out because he feels contrary to your assurances. I mean, here is a man who has…
M.A.: [interrupts L.C.] He has… I’m sorry, he has just pulled out?
L.C.: He has also pulled out as a judge. Wayne Moart loves New Zealand music, loves all music. But he’s the first to put up his hand and say; when you send him information saying: ‘be the judge of the best urban album’ you are not matching the right man with the right job.
M.A.: There’s also another National Radio, uh, judge that is on the panel as well and we’ve had no problem with that one so…
L.C.: Jim Moss you have been a judge in years past. What do you make of this?
J.M.: Ah, it all sounds a little bit strange to me Linda. Um, we’re [Jayrem Records] also, we also have, um, nominated an act in the best female vocalist category as well, so we have a great deal of interest in this process. It would seem to me that, um, R.I.A.N.Z. have looked at, ah, a British system, they’ve had a look at an Australian system and decided that this is better than, ah, we’ve done it in the past here, in New Zealand, and it doesn’t seem to me to make any sense; because you have more judges you are going to make better decisions.
L.C.: And Wayne Mason said at the out set; ‘These things matter commercially’. Don’t they?
J.M.: Of course they do. It makes a lot of difference if your act ends up being a finalist or actually wins one of these awards. It’s, um, makes, um, a big difference to the, uh, to, to a band or a musicians career. Very prestigious.
L.C.: Mark Ashbridge, one of the categories is best video. Now New Zealand is not dripping in video programmes on television. Now how are the judges to judge the best video if they haven’t seen the best video?
M.A.: Over the course of the year these are the people that are from the music industry. They work in the music industry. They, they’re in radio. They’re in television. They’re in the media. Um, they will have seen the videos that have been nominated and I, you know…
L.C.: [interrupts M.A.] How do you know that?
M.A.: As I say to you, I can only quantify, um, the fact that the overwhelming response is positive to the process to date.
L.C.: How do you know that they’ve seen them?
M.A.: Because that they’re involved in the music business.
L.C.: So you don’t [know]?
M.A.: I do. They’re involved in the music business over the last twelve months. They will have collected the information in their heads just as a book reviewer would do when he sits down to judge the, you know, his best twenty novels of the year. I doubt that, very much that, he would re-read them. And the same again, I must go back to the point; with the New Music Express, which is a British [music] magazine, um, when they judge their top fifty, they certainly would not listen to them.
L.C.: That’s a magazine though. That’s a poll.
M.A.: Well, it’s an, needless to say it’s still a top fifty selection process.
L.C.: Nice to have you on the programme. Mark Ashbridge there, one of the organisers of the music awards, and Wayne Mason and Jim Moss as well.

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