The last song I heard from them 'Girls Of Summer' its just shit, its a crappy song.
And now we've got Eminem stealing the chours of 'Dream On' for his crappy song, ugh!!

I don't know, its his latest single I think, I saw it on tv

yeah thats the one

It's not a fucking spin off. I thought of it. We didn't even discuss it. I openly said I'd make it a topic.

that new Placebo song is growing on me. I guess I'm getting old.

// Some people say Tool is just re-releasing the same songs & cover art again & again.

phew. i thought it was only me.

ill be number two. and they werent even good songs to begin with.

// Some people say Tool is just re-releasing the same songs & cover art again & again.

That i disagree with, i've heard almost every Tool song and they all are different in their own ways. But then again most people can't put up with listening to it so they just write it off as "oh its the same"

//"how many phat ass riffs and technical drumming and shit can we pile into this track", the songs have no soul

some of the riffs on Lateralus are far from phat, some are even quite mellow on some parts. And about the songs having no soul after Undertow in my opinion i think they have gotten deeper since after Undertow. H itself from Aenima proves it, the meaning behind it makes it even more emotional. Most of their songs are rather ambigious but that's çause they prefer people should take their own meanings out of it and try to emphasise with them. Also i find "Undertow" to be a bit "soulless" but i does have some soul-filed songs on it like 4 Degrees especially.

// i know alot of people that don't like Tool but I don't bother to actually get them to like them.

DOES NOT AGREE WITH

// I'm very flexible to accepting peoples musical tastes 'cause i know we all are different and diversity influences tastes.

and you don't agree why? because everyone you know likes Tool?

// Tool won't appeal to everyone
ok. they appeal to everyone i know. except maybe this dude who was like 50 that i used to work with. but everyone else. i am definately in the minority by not liking them. the think that interests me the most about tool fans is that they will not accept that i do not like them. they give me cds, force me to listen to it for hours at parties, trying to explain what is happening in the music. if someone tells me they dont like some band, i say ok. if i tell a tool fan that i dont like tool, they try with all their effort to convert me.
at least it provides me with some entertainment. until i get bored and start peeling my skin with my car keys.

// rage should have stopped after evil empire,
Nonsense... they should have just cut out all of that dickhead's solos, and kept on putting stuff out. Those are the ONLY thing that dates rage. Guerilla Radio would be their best song if it wasn't for the stupid solo. I wonder if anyone has taken the time to re-edit the rage songs...

// but ricki lake image and music makeovers purely to drum up interest or acceptance is pretty soulless.

people can usually see through that kind of sham.

// hang on... are you saying that in order to survive in the industry, you have to change what youre doing, even if the change is contrived and not what is true to you?

Change is a too strong word.

think more of it as growth or taking a step forward (or backwards in some cases)

Metallica as an example (not advocating people listen to metallica)
From their first album they went to ballads, to something else, to speed metal, to mainstream, then on to other things

Whether they changed because they grew from 18 yearolds on their first album, or they changed because they realised if they didn't people would lose interest in them, who can say. My point is they were still playing metal but keeping it 'fresh' (I'm sure I will get flamed by a devout metalhead for that)

I'm surprised no one has brought up The Wiggles, from a deathmetal band to childrens entertainers.

Producers also have a big influence on the final sound of a song/record, which can be out of the bands control.
To top that off, big record companies won't release it unless they think it will sell, small indys labels might have more to lose if it doesn't sell, but might have more faith in a bands integrity.

I agree that bands can 'change' (evolve?) without being accused of bending to trend or the will of their record company - look at Shihad (if it helps, just look at Shihad without looking at Pacifier) The change between Churn and TGE is huge, every album of theirs is markedly different, but they are all still very Shihad. If every album was the same as Killjoy, they wouldn't have the large and diverse fan base they have now.

well said Scott

of course its the bands choice, but i'm sure you have at one point cringed at someones lame attempt at a comeback...

i really try to not dismiss something if someone i know and trust has said it's worthwhile. i've discovered a few good albums by otherwise crap artists this way. umm.. *scratches head* not that i can think of a single example. ah well.

(i thought early blur was a lot better than recent blur btw and as for ministry's old human league style recordings... hahah.. they're awesome!)

i like most of justin timberlake's solo stuff. i don't think there's an nsync song i've heard that i like. i guess that kind of pop is very different tho, because it's more a case that the label have taken on some production teams who make sounds i like and that they're ripping off sounds i like (michael jackson late 70s/early 80s). it's weird that whole thing of liking music i know is by someone i wouldn't like at all, and which i know is not in the least bit personal, expressive, soulful, or whatever it is that people traditionally have rated music on. i guess all it shows is that there are lots of ways to rate something. i'd love to start a thread on this, but even admitting to liking some manufactured pop seems to be sacrilege here. i guess it's inevitable that these boards mainly attract people into "the live scene", "rock music", etc.

Yeah, that's true. Mostly it's not a case of quitting while you're ahead, it's a case of doing what your contract says or go to court and lose millions. I personally think that record companies should think about that before they go and sign a band up for 10 albums+. Trends in music are moving way faster than what it did when the Beatles were around, 10 albums aren't sustainable anymore unless you've got a legendary band signed, and really, who's big enough to be considered "a legend" these days.

The problem that a band then has is, do we try to fit in to the current market, do we keep our existing sound, do we reinvent ourselves, and of course it's not going to be the same is it. You couldn't expect Soundgarden to keep releasing "Rusty Cage" type songs, "Nu Metal" put an end to any "grunge" offspins.

So really the record co demands whats next, and the band is left to work out how the hell to do it without looking like a fat old rocker. So it's not a case of quitting while you're ahead at all, it all boils down to that music as an art vs music as a business argument. To get ahead you have to make sacrifices, including looking like an out of date artist. It all depends on how the band deals with it.