There are WAY more indie labels that are looking for bands these days. The internet has made it infinately easier to hook up with bands in other centres to organise tours etc. it's up to the band to get their shit together and get out there. Labels will only come knocking if they feel a band is good enough, if the band even wants to sign with a label (and a lot of bands opt not to).

Shihad was not the only NZ band in the early nineties. They didn't have label support from the word go, they made it happen through hard work and perseverence.

PS: I said "Shihad" and not "Pacifier". Don't even get me started on this monstrosity.

//i think bands only learn to play live by playing live.

You're dead right. I would argue that it's no harder these days, in fact it's a lot easier.

I would agree that the standard has dropped, possibly because it IS easier to get gigs and so bands don't have to have their shit together so well to get gigs.

I've been to a few gigs with the whole "garage rock" vibe and been mortified at some of the munters on stage. At a gig late last year the main singer/guitarist in one of the bands (I think up from Palmy - it was the "Rock n' Roll is my only Salvation" gig) was so shitfaced that he took about six songs to tune his guitar. The other guitarist/singer did the set without him and was fine. When the "showman" finally felt he was ready to join his band, he was tuned to a level that was completely (I couldn't believe a guitar could be tuned so incompetantly) out with the other guitarist. I won't even talk about his singing and even more deplorable banter.

It wasn't very rock n' roll either.

The rest of the band was good though, as were most of the other bands that night. I wasn't exactly blown away, though.

//perhaps it is misplaced encouragement

Now THAT is a point worth thinking about.

//so do bands need to go through an Apprenticeship????

Absolutely. Without question (and that is not a bad thing, either). Going on from what Stefan said - the "misplaced encouragement" topic - Bands need criticism to hone their craft. It is vital. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger - cliche, I know but it rings true in so many ways.

People who are about to attack this by saying "I don't give a fuck what other people think about MY music" are only fooling themselves and are probably hopeless amateurs as a result.

// There are WAY more indie labels that are looking for bands these days.

i've thought a little more about this, and you're obviously right, but the industry (by this i mean the media, major labels etc) are focused on your shihads, your zeds, your bic rungas, your stellars. if they distributed their resources more evenly other bands would force their way into more peoples conciousness and raise the level of people they reach.

i guess my thesis is bands aren't playing enough gigs. and more often than not, the industry dictates this rather than desire, talent or quality.

Exactly. Bring it on ! ! !

I dunno if yr in a band or not, but I know that the band I'm in (vocoder), and a lot of the bands we've played with in the past 2 years or so sweat blood every time they step on stage. It means that much (at least to me). If that doesn't translate to the punters, then so be it

Luv an' punkrawk

[ http://www.vocoder.co.nz ]

// there are bands I know who are scratching their heads trying and working out why they aren't connecting with the audience

I'm really interested in this point. I know there are lots of bands reading this forum. I wonder if we could give them some detailed feedback from our POV?

The other comments are really interesting also, but I'd love to see us collectively write something here that the bands actually can assimilate into their day today and take to practice and make March a killer month!!! or July and November etc etc!

In an interview yesterday we heard a description of a frontman - he was great because he really believed in his music and therefore 'sold' it to the audience with venom and passion, and heres the important bit, EVERY NIGHT he played!

//I'd love to see us collectively write something here

Perhaps it'd go down well in a new "Reality Behind The Music" weblog, hmmm?

some detailed feedback IMHO
Too many times I have been to gigs and come away thinking that I might as seen this on the telly, for all the excitement I got.
Strangely enough only last night in chat we had a brief discussion on performer / audience exchange and this then spilt over to our dinner table.
I flippantly said the audiences are like vampires, we only come out at night and we feed from the energy of the bands we are seeing...... Teina's comments about wanting to see blood only confirm this idea.

1) I don't care about "rock star " posses or the way you stand, I care greatly about your music and sometimes on stage shenanigans can totally distract from that.
2) If your music is strong in lyric content for god sake make sure that the guys on the desk know that your vocals need to be mixed with out distortion
3) start on time, I got my shit together enough to be there when your poster said you were starting, it's only good manners.
4) don't spend too much time trying to engage me with banter, let your music impress ( I know I am always on this soapbox ..oops but dust did ask)
5) I know that you can not see me through the glare of the lights but this does not mean you should forget that I am there. The odd grin cast my way will make me forgive alot of technical mistakes
6) talking of grinning, private jokes on stage with other band members make me feel left out
7) pack a 1st aid kit for your instrument....... for god's sake strings break
8) it takes a lot of courage to come and shake your hand and say thank after a gig, please don't blow me off......... actually this has only happened to me once but it has left a long-standing bitter taste in my mouth.
9) look like you believe in what you are doing, a bit of bluff and bullshit can go a long way :)
10) Oh and if you are one of the "I don't give a fuck what other people think about MY music" please tell me before I waste my money and my time

hey but what the fuck do I know, I only get out a couple of times a month

11) Don't answer cellphone mid set. coughphoenixrisingcough.

[ http://www.rottonpear.tk ]

//One problem with Aka's list is that not all members will have the same list.
What????? I don't speak for the all members???? omg why didn't someone tell me this before now???
Aka gets down of her high horse, and makes a quilt.

I said I didn't like them as much as the other bands, mainly because of my own personal taste, and also I thought during a couple of the faster tunes at the beginning of the set, some of the band sounded like they were having problems keeping in time; but they improved as the set progressed.

So nothing too serious. He totally overreacted. I just mentioned it because I think that the way managers approach their job can potentially have a really positive effect on a band's performance. As Stefan mentioned, it's the yes-man dilemma. Your music may be fine, but if your manager is just strolling around picking people out of the crowd to tell you how great you are, then you're never going to get any better. I suspect quite a few bands end up with one of their salesman mates as a manager - lots of enthusiasm, sufficient organisational skills, very little critical expertise.

// has a lot with your own personal taste
has a lot to do with your own personal taste.

so much for splitting infinitives, I just left one out completely.

//our band is about to release our debut album

what band's that then?

There is another element that's unquantifiable. I went to a Deluxeboy gig over the summer, I've heard and liked a couple of their songs on CD, they've obviously been perfoming together for a while, were polished and yet their show fell flat - they couldn't entice people in close, no-one would dance, there was something missing. Maybe going to watch bands that _don't_ work as a band is also good learning, if you can work out what it is that isn't there.

One thing that doesn't seem to be a problem so much these days is the lack of vocals that seemed to typify gigs in the '80s - we'd see the vocalist hammering away but the mix was so bad that there was no way to hear whet was being sung. Having the balance between the band components right is essential.

Say no more, how about get someone else to advertise you? Like ummmmm I don't know

*COUGH* Leonard - named after the practice room beer fridge and just as cool! The Auckland based 5 piece follow up their debut single Paul Weller, which caught the ear of student radio and Channel Z programmers in Auckland and featured on Kiwi Hit Disc 36, with another upbeat popgem. In between day jobs, the band recorded a new 4 track EP at York St studios mastered by Delta's Andrew Buckton. *COUGH*

So by the way where have you guys been hiding for the last couple of years?

I didn't read it as shameless self-promotion or nowt; and I'm sure there'd be no problem with you posting a classified for bands to gig with...

Yeah, a coupla people I know who have been playing for years still get all uptight before gigs. I reckon if they played to an audience a lot more regularly, it'd get a lot less stressful.

Actually, I was thinking before about how bands could do the opposite - invite friends to as many of their practices as is practicable, and treat them like gigs. You get your confidence playing in front of people (people that you know won't rip your still-beating heart from your chest and slam-dunk it into an empty beer glass); it'd be easier learning how to connect with an audience that you already know, and it's far less of a big step when you do play in public.

Yeah, I understand that, but I think once you've got a set together it may benefit the band to try it out in front of a bunch of people. Rather than facing a public audience cold (and all the organisation & money that requires), I think it'd be worth going through the set a few times with a few mates just to get confidence and a bit of audience feedback. It's the "intimidating" thing you're trying to combat, after all.

I'd see it as the same as previewing a movie for a test audience.