Lesbians @ #1

Submitted by noizyboy on Mon, 2003-02-03 19:06

A bit of controversy about a couple of lesbian russians making it to #1 on the british charts, supposedly on the strength of their video featuring them snogging while wearing school uniforms.

Apparently the video targets the "dirty old man market" (that well known singles-buying demographic), and has been the target of some good old fashioned outrage from various UK media and child advocacy groups.

All probably fair enough, but it seems odd that the media jump on board when it's lesbians getting slightly naughty. I watched the latest Christina Aguilera video the other day where she's dressed in, basically, a bra and (very short) panties, and proceeds to get pretty jiggy with for most of the video, and then, as if they weren't pushing the limits of societal decency quite enough just with the overt sexuality of it all, she proceeds to kickbox some other hotty into pulp. Mad.

I also seem to recall a Britney video where she dances about in a school uniform. There's bound to be others along similar lines.

Anyway, just raising a point about the odd standards that are applied to music videos (and marketing in general): when does the use of sex in selling something *really* cross the line into the realms of inappropriate (and socially damaging)? I may be just getting older, but so many of the music videos I see nowadays are just so much soft porn.

But what really got me was the report from reuters:

"British daytime television hosts, husband and wife team Richard and Judy, branded their antics 'paedophile porn' and called for them to be banned. "

The poms have their own Richard & Judy show? How weird is that?

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Comments

Submitted by myshkin on Mon, 2003-02-03 19:49.

Two points:

1/ How can you mention a video for the "dirty old man" market and not give us any way of seeing it?
2/ One video that caused a bit of concern with my friends was the first single by the Sugababes, which portrayed them as very adult, sexual beings but the reality was that they were actually school girls - in some ways worse than having adults (well Britney) dress as school girls.

Submitted by myshkin on Mon, 2003-02-03 19:51.

Ah - the track in question is Tatu "All the things she said". I think I've seen it.

Submitted by noizyboy on Mon, 2003-02-03 19:57.

1/ My mistake! Link below.

2/ Sugababes: that *was* (and still is) a bit of a worry. It was somewhat undermined, I thought, by the fact that they did the classic young girl of thing of too much lipstick and too much blush. They looked like pretty much what they were at the time, girls playing popstar dress-ups. Britney wasn't that much older when she did the schoolgirl look, maybe 17? You won't see the sugarbabes shaking their booty like Britney or Christina though. Or maybe they do that now too? What's the world coming to, ey?

[ http://www.tatugirls.com/av/ ]

Submitted by myshkin on Mon, 2003-02-03 20:11.

Maybe they'll never be shaking their booty, but there is something more knowing and sophisticated about the Sugababes videos, including their later one.

Submitted by chunnsta on Mon, 2003-02-03 20:23.

Yeah - Sugababes are like high art compared to Britney and Aguilera etc...they write their own shit too (mostly) from what I hear, so that sort of thing should be encouraged I guess.

Submitted by robyn on Tue, 2003-02-04 00:08.

D'you know what the secret of the Sugababes' pop sophistication is? They deliberately don't smile in their publicity photos.

It means that they can be singing the same sorts of pop songs as other pop groups, but because they have not a shred of wacky-zany-madcap about them, grown-ups can listen to them and not feel embarassed.

[ http://www.secret-passage.com/ ]

Submitted by greenchic on Mon, 2003-02-03 20:15.

that tatu song is really cool I think, and I don't think they're real lezzos, I'm sure I've heard a couple times that they are acting the school girl lezzo part.

Submitted by Jon Jr. on Mon, 2003-02-03 20:55.

whats your problem whith them being lesbians???
huh one day we're goin to rise up against you homophobes
if we want to love another woman there is NOTHING wrong with it!!!
HOW DARE YOU tell me that they're acting, you many of us are proud of our sexuality
just watch what ur saying, cause u've already insulted a lot of the things we cherish
and now its my sexuality???

Submitted by DJ Will on Mon, 2003-02-03 21:42.

Yeah, I have to agree.
Iv'e seen soe of you're osts, and they do seem to be pretty offensive, in that, you often use the word 'Gay' as an insult, and then when somebody pints that out to you, you go off your head Greenchic...

And I'm pretty sure they are actually Lesbians...although, don't quote me on it.

Submitted by DJ Will on Mon, 2003-02-03 21:43.

Wow, I really am illiterate...By "Soe of you're osts" I meant to say: Some of your posts.

Down with homophobia!

Submitted by Soph_ie on Mon, 2003-02-03 22:14.

Uhh DJ Will, I think jon jr was kind of poking fun at greenchic because the other day she was saying about everyone attacking her all the time-I guess he wanted to get her again:P. She never said anything about any alternative sexuality being bad or wrong or whatever, she just made a few comments. So uh yeah...

Submitted by Saul_Hudson on Mon, 2003-02-03 22:20.

you asked for it greenchic

Submitted by DJ Will on Mon, 2003-02-03 23:27.

Even so soph_ie, I have noticed a few 'man that song is gay' posts from her. I know it's not a big deal. It just pisses me off...

Submitted by Soph_ie on Mon, 2003-02-03 23:48.

Yeah well fair enough then.

Submitted by robyn on Tue, 2003-02-04 00:18.

Tatu are about as lesbionic as the lesbians found on internet porn sites.

Interestingly enough, Tatu's manager is a former psychologist. I can just imagine him watching "Top of the Pops" one day and thinking "Hmmm... I know what's missing - lesbians."

Of course, I'm so damn heterosexual that the first time I saw the "All the things she said" video, I thought, "hey, why's that boy wearing a skirt?"

[ http://www.secret-passage.com/ ]

Submitted by Jon Jr. on Tue, 2003-02-04 00:21.

i actually do get pissed off when people say something is "gay" cause its usually stupid... not homosexual, thats one of my pet peeves
thanks everyone for deconstucting my rant :D

Submitted by greenchic on Wed, 2003-02-05 16:23.

Haha ok I'm so sorry everyone. If you don't want me to call things I think are stupid 'gay' then I won't. But I personally don't think theres much wrong with it, and I can't really help it I've done it for like 5 years and when I say it I don't mean in anyway to offend homosexuals. Oh, and DJ Will, prove to me that I have ever said 'that song is gay' and I'll agree with your (stupid made-up impulsive) comment.

Submitted by myshkin on Wed, 2003-02-05 17:57.

"Oh, I didn't mean to offend ya nigga" - its no defence at all. When you use words that you know are going to give offence, saying offence was not your intention is rather artificial. Not knowing that using "gay" as a derogatory term would be pure thoughtlessness - and you're better than that, surely. And as a responsible human being you do have control over what you say, so you can "help it". Saying things are "gay" because we don't like them is a classic example of a control mechanism whereby the mainstream further marginalises the minorities. Language counts - whenever and wherever it is used.

Submitted by velocity on Wed, 2003-02-05 18:08.

Amen.

Submitted by Prozaco on Wed, 2003-02-05 18:35.

when i watch something thats really happy clappy (like suzy cato) i say "ugh... thats so gay", and everyone jumps down my throat..... but i meant "gay" as in "happy". overenthusiasm on kids tv irks me.

Submitted by myshkin on Wed, 2003-02-05 18:53.

So, you'd be using the word in its original meaning, sort of - gay as in happy and joyful? And you don't like that - interesting.

Submitted by Heather on Thu, 2003-02-06 13:04.

While we're at it, I would also like to ban the word 'gauche', which causes great distress to my left-handed hairdresser.

Submitted by chunnsta on Mon, 2003-02-03 20:20.

It's all down to the individuals watching I guess - as long as they are sold on sex, sex will sell. When, in terms of media, it becomes irrelevant to you, it is an incredibly liberating feeling. Tits and ass and endless blondes just bore me now, which is great, all music should be based on the music and not the ability to contort one's crotch despite having the body of an eleven year old. They're using sex to sell Christina Aguilera b/c nothing else will.....
A pretty face, I find, is a more attractive feature than most and b/c their's are always caked in make-up I am free of their charms - thank Christ!

Still.....the songs are aimed at the younger audience and the younger audience is sexually curious, so in fact my point is pointless. I wished I'd thought about this b4 I started writing it!

Submitted by noizyboy on Mon, 2003-02-03 23:40.

chunnsta, I so know how you feel. the post that defeats my own point is my forte.

Submitted by chronickiwi on Wed, 2003-02-05 13:52.

well both points still make sence and should stand...

i just make it a habbit to not give a toss about music videos... unless i like the song already...

because its true that music videos distract from the song... becasue its suddenly visual and not just about sound... notice how a close up of a guitar solo in a video can almost channel out all other sounds, even though they're there and as loud as ever... just because you're fixed on that guitar?

Submitted by #rock_chick# on Tue, 2003-02-04 19:27.

hey im not against it or anything but like maybe its a bit much for the younger audiences.and are they or are they not real lezbos?iz lesbian videos the new way to get the audiences????

Submitted by trixie on Wed, 2003-02-05 01:57.

i actually like that song, but its stupid how its been banned in places. when theres all these videos with men and women making out or even in sexual positions not many people complain. i dont think it matters what sexuality they are.

Submitted by NonBreed on Fri, 2003-02-07 00:56.

after all, its still just sex no matter wich way you swing.

Submitted by PEACHES_HEAD on Wed, 2003-02-05 15:16.

The other day i was in the car with my dad when we saw a massive bill board for levi's jeans, with two girls kissing. Dad was really shocked by it, but i wasn't really... and it really made me think about the generation gap and conservativeness. But still, i think, there are adds EVERYWHERE with herto couples kissing...and some are shocked about one with homosexuals. It's really odd. I think this thread just shows that we have a long, long was to go before homosexuality is thought of as a normal, everyday thing.

Submitted by goosus on Wed, 2003-02-05 18:06.

ive seen the vid for that song, and i do agree that it is using 'sex' as a way to sell the song. however, i do think it's sad that they have to use the whole 'school girl' image. their song, like many pop songs was intentionally made to be catchy and sing-alongable so the younger audience and mainstream pop listeners would easily like it. there's no doubt about that. if they really are lesbian, i have no problem with that and to me that vid isn't nearly as bad as ones like those of britney, christina and her self-proclaimed video of an 'orgy'. there is a line which is crossed in this issue but where exactly im not sure. i think we should be making more cool as videos like incubus's 'warning' (which reminds me of minority report, awesome movie btw) or maybe coldplay's 'the scientist'.

Submitted by postman on Wed, 2003-02-05 21:45.

My concern is that the video was made a few years ago. The girls were younger than the 14 that I think they are now. if it was a couple of teenage boys doing the same what would people think. the use of the schoolgirl imagery goes to further emphasise the point that they are "underage". some people may not find it objectionable however I think that a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

My thoughts on the song is that it is very weak and wouldn't have made it anywhere if it didn't have a video that appealed to nounce's everywhere.
oh and there is more to come

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