.....and the way is straight and narrow, according to our new NZM evangelist.
Methinks there should be a confessional thread, where NZMer's can cleanse their dirty heathen consciences and walk again in the light of the lord. Either that or go straight to hell.
Just one thread, I don't think it'll hurt. I've been whinging about the church in a bunch of other threads for a few weeks, so I'm glad the church now has a rep to strike back...
It says in God's word (the Bible) that if you search for God with ALL your heart, ALL your mind, and ALL your strength, you will find Him. When someone says that they can't find God, or that there is no God is lying, because its not that they can't find God, but they they wont. He says that if you search for Him, He will be found by you. ever heard the saying "seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened"? thats the key.
I've only been a Christian for just over a year, and one thing I've learnt is to hold onto your original fire. Heather, I've been reading, and maybe you should try reading Matthew 14:22. Peter knew where he was at the start, in the boat. When He BELIEVED it was Jesus walking on the water he was the first to get out of the boat while the other disciples were freakin' out. but it says AS SOON as he started to sink in the water, he immediately cried out to Jesus. you know, there is still time, God holds the whole world in His hands, yet, He still cares for each and every one of us.
seriously, people are wuite often put off by people like urs fanatisism, whats wrogn with living ur life, believing in god, trying to do a bit of good here and a bit of good there, trying to be honest with yourself???
im born again, but im no zealot, why??? because i'm disatisfied with the church in general...
"Christianity has done its utmost to close the circle and declared even doubt to be sin. One is supposed to be cast into belief without reason, by a miracle, and from then on to swim in it as in the brightest and least ambiguous of elements: even a glance towards land, even the thought that one perhaps exists for something else as well as swimming, even the slightest impulse of our amphibious nature- is sin! And notice that all this means that the foundation of belief and all reflection on its origin is likewise excluded as sinful. What is wanted are blindness and intoxication and an eternal song over the waves in which reason has drowned."
Nice quote Prozaco. Very nice - this is part of the cool stuff I'm able to study, not that I'm Christian at all, but I class myself as a searcher. Searching is a lot of fun. What Nietzsche's going on about goes way back to early theorists such as Aquinus and Augustine (well, early Augustine, before he got all self-righteous) who really valued doubt, who saw it as a gift, the ability to re-appraise everything every day - to them the search was more crucial to being a good person than the apparent results or rewards. Constant uncertainty was once seen as great exercise for the soul. Nice that some people feel they have found a certainty, but that will often mean nothing to others still searching.
Nietzsche is really underated these days as a philosopher. Really really. And so are Mr A & A mentioned above.
I think Nietzsche fell into disfavour because lesser minds got hold of what he was saying and twisted it to their own purposes (plus, as a guy, he was a bit of a freak), but totally agree with your assessment of the quality of his thinking. Reading the limited amount of his work that I have did much to advance my own views.
//"Blessed is the man who hungers and thirsts for righteousness, for he SHALL be filled."
oh yes, he shall be filled with bullshit coctail of false hope, misplaced faith and a promise of better things to come in the next life.
//How can you deny God?.
it's not so much denying god as it is denying being brainwashed by crazed fanatics who believe some old myth
I don't deny God at all. I am also faithfully searching for truth, and to a greater or lesser extent, finding it in unexpected places.
My problem has never been with God, but with the church. I think the church has good intentions, but falls short of helping people through this particular phase of their lives (that point where their questions become more sophisticated), because it's not adequately equipped to deal with them. The church, in general (I've heard one or two marvellous teachers who inspired me and helped me a great deal - Marcus Ardern and Dave Peirce are two people I still hold in very high regard) is unwilling to accept that it has any problem, and just mumbles on about having faith etc.
Do you think that the church has a problem that should be addressed? What do you think about my suggestion that the kiwi church needs to move away from the shallow/cheap/trashy hellfire & brimstone evangelism? I'm talking more about the American-style preachers on TV, their inflexible views and prepackaged answers. It's not restricted only to these shows - these attitudes pervade the entire Contemporary Christian lifestyle.
It is your belief that God exists - he may simply be a construction caused by your belief in him. Alternatively, your new-found enthusiasm and membership of a religious community may have more to do with his apparent existence than anything. I am not going to tell you whether to believe in him or not: I simply ask the same courtesy of you.
For my part, I have spent a long time wrestling with the God question. I guess as a kid it was not something I ever thought about since he was not a topic ever discussed at home, but when I started my process of education, confronting the question of the existence of God became inevitable. I have read various philosophic proofs of God and been left unconvinced, I have tried the bible but see no reason to credit with any more authority than any other text on the subject, I have had numerous conversations with people wanting to show me God's path (and ackowledge them for the free meals they were willing to produce), I have tried direct communication with God, not once or twice but over the period of several years. I am left with no reason at all to accept his existence - "faith" cuts no ice with me, as it seems to me to be a form of blind unreasoning belief or superstition, some attempt to create an artificial order out of the chaos that is life, which is pretty much doomed, as the only explanation of the chaos and bad things that happen on a daily basis that has ever been given by a Christian is that they are some sort of "test" of faith. I say embrace the fact that the world is chaotic, take responsibility for formulating your own path through it, don't rely on easy prefabricated answers - this is a much more difficult thing to maintain than the adoption of an externally created template.
Sweet as...however...I've had people say to me things like "how come a seemingly rational person like you believe so strongly in something that can't be proven?" I don't have an answer to that. Similarly though, noone can prove that God *doesn't* exist either. Thus, either way you're making a leap of faith.
I've come to realise over the years that there are those who believe in God and those who don't, and there's no point reasoning with someone who disagrees with you, because reason doesn't hold any weight on either side of this particular debate. I wish more atheists realised this, because I get annoyed at people saying that I'm being superstitious or needy just because I believe in God.
Myshkin, I am curious as to how you deal with trying times in your life. If faith doesn't impress you, then what aspect of yourself do you use to get through tough periods? Do you prefer to call it perseverance or something familiar? I would consider faith vital in my life - in that with faith I can believe things will improve over time.
Of course, you may be merely referring to the biblical version of faith, in which case I agree...
Bugger, forgot. Can someone explain to me what a heathen is? I read somewhere awhile ago that it was someone who doesn't believe in a higher entity, rather a general life force held within oneself.
That sounded like me... until I found out that heathens are basically universally reviled. Gutted. I don't see what's so offensive about heathenism - coming from the church Heather maybe you could tell me...?
Words are my department, so I'll jump in here if you don't mind, jimi. Heather can add on when she's awake.
The Oxford English starts by saying a heathen is: "a person who does not belong to a widely held religion, as regarded by those that do," then goes on to explain that the word is (naturally) of post-christian origin. In its original meaning, it was simply one who dwelt on the heath; but like its counterpart, 'pagan' (villager, commoner), came to mean non-christian due to the fact that the rural villages still held on to their polytheistic beliefs. It wasn't until the 800's or so that christian theologians began using the word in a derogatory manner.
The OED then refers me to the word 'barbarian', which originally meant 'bearded', i.e. not Roman, and later came to mean 'uncivilized'.
There you go. More than you ever wanted to know about the word 'heathen'. My title as grammatical pundit goes undisputed.
//My title as grammatical pundit goes undisputed.
In this example, more of a semantic pundit, hmmm?
Nothing to add to velocity's thorough research (very nice dahling, love your work ). Christians only ever use the word 'heathen' these days as a tongue-in-cheek term for non-believers or anyone holding beliefs that may be considered barbaric (for example, hmmm, militant Islam perhaps). Mind you, that reminds me of a time our Christian band was practising in the church, and one of the neighbours complained about the noise. He referred to us as "a bunch of bloody hottentots".
There has been at least one instance of my first name being misspelled on an address list.
You ask about "faith" - I was referring in my post to the idea that God be taken on faith, rather than seeking scientific proof. So, I was using it in a biblical way, although for many people, that belief in an external entity watching over and making provision is what gets them through - if, indeed, they get though. Take some natural disaster, or dare I say it, the events of September 11. Those who have faith in God and made it through will attribute this success to their God. Of course those who didn't make it through, well "it was their time to go, God has some other purpose" is the stock answer. The reality is, some will have got through, some not - I don't think there is any entity picking and choosing who stays/who goes.
As for the other aspect of your question - getting through tough times: the first question to ask is what the alternative is. Tough times are an inevitable part of life - the two ways out seem to be suicide or diminishing the risks that come with life to the point you may as well not be alive. What you find (and this is very much a Nietzschian idea) is that when you face up to the tough times and live them through without taking drugs/alcohol/random sex/whatever to blunt the edges, you'll generally come out the other side, so you can gain faith in yourself, your ability to deal. Ultimately, I think we can only have faith in ourselves, or at least must first have this before we can look to having faith in others.
Faith to me isn't so much about trusting someone or something else to "get me through". I've thought about this a lot, because a lot of Christians do see faith as "believing that God will make everything OK", and that's what annoys non-believers. It annoys me too, because a lot of Christians run into serious difficulties when life turns to custard.
I know that any manner of nasty things can happen to me, and I've fairly much stopped relying on God to ensure that I don't step in a hole, or get mugged or murdered or whatever. However, I still have faith.
Living in this world scares me sometimes, and God isn't going to put me in a little bubble of protection. However, I trust Him to give me guidance and comfort when I ask. I still make my own decisions. Sometimes I make bad decisions, knowing full well that they're bad decisions, and I pay for them. I make good decisions that are difficult to follow through, because they require a sacrifice of some sort. Life isn't very easy. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.
Faith to me is being able to reconcile myself to the fact that sometimes life is shit, and that's OK. There is a God that created the universe, and still watches me and cares for me (without necessarily intervening), and that's great. The original posers (predestination vs free will, all-loving god vs suffering etc) don't concern me any more, not through the practice of sophistry (to which a lot of Christians need to resort), but because they just don't seem relevant. I think that's what faith is. It falls outside the bounds of communication and reason, so it can't be taught. I guess a person just has to discover it for themself.
It strikes me that the faith shown by some Christians in their God to save them can very easily be turned against them when the shit comes down. When their God really is non-interventionist, the lack of practicality in their material lives on Earth means they can very easily become lost, not having a rational way out of the mess. Often the restraints of 'religion-rule' based lives means they cannot turn to certain people or institutuions for help, and their church cannot help them for the same reasons.
The lack of rationality and practicality caused by the total belief in God/the Church to sort their lives out is a worry, and I believe this is where the efforts of any organised religion that I know of fall down.
Nope, it's all about money and right-wing conservate values. Christian music is all slickly produced and commercially packaged aiming to sell millions. Pehaps this is why it's so fucking generic.
isint being an athiest the only "religion" you can be in without having to belive in anything?apart from beliveing in nothing?:Sdamn that sounds contradicting
This may seem unthinkable, but imagine if the Bible, Jesus Christ, Almighty God, the Creator of the universe is right, and you are wrong! Imagine that...you wrong? Look at i this way. If you are right, then there is no Creator, no after-life, no justice, no Heaven and no Hell, you won even get the chance to say "I told you so!". If you are right then creation was an accident, the Bible is but fables, and Jesus Christ was a liar. If you are right, then you will one day be dead, and truly passed on. i ask again, is it possible that you are wrong?? Have you ever been wrong? are you divinely infallible? are you different from the rest of us? Human nature is prone to error, the person who invented the eraser on the pencil knew that. so, disasteradio, it says in the Word that "He who loves his life will lose it, but he who loses his life (spiritually, by giving up the things in your life that seperate you from God) for my sake, will find it"
You could turn this around, you know - imagine that _you_ are wrong, along with all the other God-worshippers. Essential, the entire Western world has spent the last 2000 years building houses of worship for, and spending vast amounts of time and money on, an imaginary friend.
If I had an imaginary friend and spent the kind of time and effort on her that Christians do on their God, I'd be locked up.;
but how can anyone claim to know what is right?
i don't know what is true and what is not, at least i can admit that. i also don't think theres any way i'm going to find out for certain until the day of my death. therefore if i was to pick a religion, i wouldn't pick the one that forces me to deny almost everything that comes naturally to me.
has it ever dawned on you that it is you and your little band of fanatics who might be wrong? All you people turn to your so called god when you run across hard time in your life and are lost for answers so you decide, because of your ignorance, that it must be the god's will and it's for the best because god knows what he is doing and you are not to question him. god is the answer for all your failings and succeses, no credit goes to you. Think about it, your life is what you make it, there is no spirit watching over you. Stop being someones sheep and live your life for yourself and not for promises of better things to come when you die.
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.....and the way is straight and ...
.....and the way is straight and narrow, according to our new NZM evangelist.
Methinks there should be a confessional thread, where NZMer's can cleanse their dirty heathen consciences and walk again in the light of the lord. Either that or go straight to hell.
Oh, and rock n' roll is the devil's music. . . .
. . . . which means most of us are ...
. . . . which means most of us are fucked.
Can't think of a better group of ...
Can't think of a better group of people (for the most part) with whom to be damned.
do we even need to discuss ...
do we even need to discuss this??
there's nothing you can say that hasn't been said already, we don't need it to be shoved down out throats
down our throats...
down our throats
Just one thread, I don't think it'll ...
Just one thread, I don't think it'll hurt. I've been whinging about the church in a bunch of other threads for a few weeks, so I'm glad the church now has a rep to strike back...
okee dokee, anyone who wants to talk ...
okee dokee, anyone who wants to talk about the things of God, then come to the bar, otherwise, we'll just leave the Parachute things in here aiiight.
onlyoneway, I'm interested in a ...
onlyoneway, I'm interested in a response to my previous tirade in the Parachute thread. Do you want me to repost?
It says in God's word (the Bible) that ...
It says in God's word (the Bible) that if you search for God with ALL your heart, ALL your mind, and ALL your strength, you will find Him. When someone says that they can't find God, or that there is no God is lying, because its not that they can't find God, but they they wont. He says that if you search for Him, He will be found by you. ever heard the saying "seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened"? thats the key.
I've only been a Christian for just over a year, and one thing I've learnt is to hold onto your original fire. Heather, I've been reading, and maybe you should try reading Matthew 14:22. Peter knew where he was at the start, in the boat. When He BELIEVED it was Jesus walking on the water he was the first to get out of the boat while the other disciples were freakin' out. but it says AS SOON as he started to sink in the water, he immediately cried out to Jesus. you know, there is still time, God holds the whole world in His hands, yet, He still cares for each and every one of us.
//I've only been a Christian for just ...
//I've only been a Christian for just over a year
Jeez, I never would've guessed . . . .
There's nothing like that "born again" evangelistic zeal.
// It says in God's word (the Bible) ...
// It says in God's word (the Bible) that if you search for God with ALL your heart, ALL your mind, and ALL your strength, you will find Him.
Is this dude for real?
seriously, people are wuite often put ...
seriously, people are wuite often put off by people like urs fanatisism, whats wrogn with living ur life, believing in god, trying to do a bit of good here and a bit of good there, trying to be honest with yourself???
im born again, but im no zealot, why??? because i'm disatisfied with the church in general...
"Christianity has done its utmost to ...
"Christianity has done its utmost to close the circle and declared even doubt to be sin. One is supposed to be cast into belief without reason, by a miracle, and from then on to swim in it as in the brightest and least ambiguous of elements: even a glance towards land, even the thought that one perhaps exists for something else as well as swimming, even the slightest impulse of our amphibious nature- is sin! And notice that all this means that the foundation of belief and all reflection on its origin is likewise excluded as sinful. What is wanted are blindness and intoxication and an eternal song over the waves in which reason has drowned."
from Nietzsche's Daybreak
Nice quote Prozaco. Very nice - this ...
Nice quote Prozaco. Very nice - this is part of the cool stuff I'm able to study, not that I'm Christian at all, but I class myself as a searcher. Searching is a lot of fun. What Nietzsche's going on about goes way back to early theorists such as Aquinus and Augustine (well, early Augustine, before he got all self-righteous) who really valued doubt, who saw it as a gift, the ability to re-appraise everything every day - to them the search was more crucial to being a good person than the apparent results or rewards. Constant uncertainty was once seen as great exercise for the soul. Nice that some people feel they have found a certainty, but that will often mean nothing to others still searching.
Nietzsche is really underated these days as a philosopher. Really really. And so are Mr A & A mentioned above.
I think Nietzsche fell into disfavour ...
I think Nietzsche fell into disfavour because lesser minds got hold of what he was saying and twisted it to their own purposes (plus, as a guy, he was a bit of a freak), but totally agree with your assessment of the quality of his thinking. Reading the limited amount of his work that I have did much to advance my own views.
if we're going to go nietzsche ...
if we're going to go nietzsche there's the goodie that goes something like:
either man is a mistake of god's or god is a mistake of man.
Then there's one from a guy whos name ...
Then there's one from a guy whos name escapes me right now...
Kill one man, and you are an assassin. Kill thousands of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone, and you are a God.
"Blessed is the man who hungers and ...
"Blessed is the man who hungers and thirsts for righteousness, for he SHALL be filled."
How can you deny God?.
//"Blessed is the man who hungers and ...
//"Blessed is the man who hungers and thirsts for righteousness, for he SHALL be filled."
oh yes, he shall be filled with bullshit coctail of false hope, misplaced faith and a promise of better things to come in the next life.
//How can you deny God?.
it's not so much denying god as it is denying being brainwashed by crazed fanatics who believe some old myth
because it's more fun to be in control ...
because it's more fun to be in control of your own life.
[ external link ]
easy you just shut the door and dont ...
easy you just shut the door and dont take the pamphlets
I don't deny God at all. I am also ...
I don't deny God at all. I am also faithfully searching for truth, and to a greater or lesser extent, finding it in unexpected places.
My problem has never been with God, but with the church. I think the church has good intentions, but falls short of helping people through this particular phase of their lives (that point where their questions become more sophisticated), because it's not adequately equipped to deal with them. The church, in general (I've heard one or two marvellous teachers who inspired me and helped me a great deal - Marcus Ardern and Dave Peirce are two people I still hold in very high regard) is unwilling to accept that it has any problem, and just mumbles on about having faith etc.
Do you think that the church has a problem that should be addressed? What do you think about my suggestion that the kiwi church needs to move away from the shallow/cheap/trashy hellfire & brimstone evangelism? I'm talking more about the American-style preachers on TV, their inflexible views and prepackaged answers. It's not restricted only to these shows - these attitudes pervade the entire Contemporary Christian lifestyle.
It is your belief that God exists - he ...
It is your belief that God exists - he may simply be a construction caused by your belief in him. Alternatively, your new-found enthusiasm and membership of a religious community may have more to do with his apparent existence than anything. I am not going to tell you whether to believe in him or not: I simply ask the same courtesy of you.
For my part, I have spent a long time wrestling with the God question. I guess as a kid it was not something I ever thought about since he was not a topic ever discussed at home, but when I started my process of education, confronting the question of the existence of God became inevitable. I have read various philosophic proofs of God and been left unconvinced, I have tried the bible but see no reason to credit with any more authority than any other text on the subject, I have had numerous conversations with people wanting to show me God's path (and ackowledge them for the free meals they were willing to produce), I have tried direct communication with God, not once or twice but over the period of several years. I am left with no reason at all to accept his existence - "faith" cuts no ice with me, as it seems to me to be a form of blind unreasoning belief or superstition, some attempt to create an artificial order out of the chaos that is life, which is pretty much doomed, as the only explanation of the chaos and bad things that happen on a daily basis that has ever been given by a Christian is that they are some sort of "test" of faith. I say embrace the fact that the world is chaotic, take responsibility for formulating your own path through it, don't rely on easy prefabricated answers - this is a much more difficult thing to maintain than the adoption of an externally created template.
Ah - this post was to onlyoneway, not ...
Ah - this post was to onlyoneway, not Heather, who must be a faster writer than me!
Sweet as...however...I've had people ...
Sweet as...however...I've had people say to me things like "how come a seemingly rational person like you believe so strongly in something that can't be proven?" I don't have an answer to that. Similarly though, noone can prove that God *doesn't* exist either. Thus, either way you're making a leap of faith.
I've come to realise over the years that there are those who believe in God and those who don't, and there's no point reasoning with someone who disagrees with you, because reason doesn't hold any weight on either side of this particular debate. I wish more atheists realised this, because I get annoyed at people saying that I'm being superstitious or needy just because I believe in God.
Wow, if I keep this up, I'll alienate ...
Wow, if I keep this up, I'll alienate myself entirely - Christians and heathens alike will come to despise the name that is Heather...
Myshkin, I am curious as to how you ...
Myshkin, I am curious as to how you deal with trying times in your life. If faith doesn't impress you, then what aspect of yourself do you use to get through tough periods? Do you prefer to call it perseverance or something familiar? I would consider faith vital in my life - in that with faith I can believe things will improve over time.
Of course, you may be merely referring to the biblical version of faith, in which case I agree...
Bugger, forgot. Can someone explain to ...
Bugger, forgot. Can someone explain to me what a heathen is? I read somewhere awhile ago that it was someone who doesn't believe in a higher entity, rather a general life force held within oneself.
That sounded like me... until I found out that heathens are basically universally reviled. Gutted. I don't see what's so offensive about heathenism - coming from the church Heather maybe you could tell me...?
Words are my department, so I'll jump ...
Words are my department, so I'll jump in here if you don't mind, jimi. Heather can add on when she's awake.
The Oxford English starts by saying a heathen is: "a person who does not belong to a widely held religion, as regarded by those that do," then goes on to explain that the word is (naturally) of post-christian origin. In its original meaning, it was simply one who dwelt on the heath; but like its counterpart, 'pagan' (villager, commoner), came to mean non-christian due to the fact that the rural villages still held on to their polytheistic beliefs. It wasn't until the 800's or so that christian theologians began using the word in a derogatory manner.
The OED then refers me to the word 'barbarian', which originally meant 'bearded', i.e. not Roman, and later came to mean 'uncivilized'.
There you go. More than you ever wanted to know about the word 'heathen'. My title as grammatical pundit goes undisputed.
Heh. So it's not really <b>that</b> ...
Heh. So it's not really that bad... man, I'm sick of people's prejudices and assumptions about us heathens ;)
//My title as grammatical pundit goes ...
//My title as grammatical pundit goes undisputed.
In this example, more of a semantic pundit, hmmm?
Nothing to add to velocity's thorough research (very nice dahling, love your work ). Christians only ever use the word 'heathen' these days as a tongue-in-cheek term for non-believers or anyone holding beliefs that may be considered barbaric (for example, hmmm, militant Islam perhaps). Mind you, that reminds me of a time our Christian band was practising in the church, and one of the neighbours complained about the noise. He referred to us as "a bunch of bloody hottentots".
There has been at least one instance of my first name being misspelled on an address list.
Jimi You ask about "faith" - I was ...
Jimi
You ask about "faith" - I was referring in my post to the idea that God be taken on faith, rather than seeking scientific proof. So, I was using it in a biblical way, although for many people, that belief in an external entity watching over and making provision is what gets them through - if, indeed, they get though. Take some natural disaster, or dare I say it, the events of September 11. Those who have faith in God and made it through will attribute this success to their God. Of course those who didn't make it through, well "it was their time to go, God has some other purpose" is the stock answer. The reality is, some will have got through, some not - I don't think there is any entity picking and choosing who stays/who goes.
As for the other aspect of your question - getting through tough times: the first question to ask is what the alternative is. Tough times are an inevitable part of life - the two ways out seem to be suicide or diminishing the risks that come with life to the point you may as well not be alive. What you find (and this is very much a Nietzschian idea) is that when you face up to the tough times and live them through without taking drugs/alcohol/random sex/whatever to blunt the edges, you'll generally come out the other side, so you can gain faith in yourself, your ability to deal. Ultimately, I think we can only have faith in ourselves, or at least must first have this before we can look to having faith in others.
Faith to me isn't so much about ...
Faith to me isn't so much about trusting someone or something else to "get me through". I've thought about this a lot, because a lot of Christians do see faith as "believing that God will make everything OK", and that's what annoys non-believers. It annoys me too, because a lot of Christians run into serious difficulties when life turns to custard.
I know that any manner of nasty things can happen to me, and I've fairly much stopped relying on God to ensure that I don't step in a hole, or get mugged or murdered or whatever. However, I still have faith.
Living in this world scares me sometimes, and God isn't going to put me in a little bubble of protection. However, I trust Him to give me guidance and comfort when I ask. I still make my own decisions. Sometimes I make bad decisions, knowing full well that they're bad decisions, and I pay for them. I make good decisions that are difficult to follow through, because they require a sacrifice of some sort. Life isn't very easy. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.
Faith to me is being able to reconcile myself to the fact that sometimes life is shit, and that's OK. There is a God that created the universe, and still watches me and cares for me (without necessarily intervening), and that's great. The original posers (predestination vs free will, all-loving god vs suffering etc) don't concern me any more, not through the practice of sophistry (to which a lot of Christians need to resort), but because they just don't seem relevant. I think that's what faith is. It falls outside the bounds of communication and reason, so it can't be taught. I guess a person just has to discover it for themself.
It strikes me that the faith shown by ...
It strikes me that the faith shown by some Christians in their God to save them can very easily be turned against them when the shit comes down. When their God really is non-interventionist, the lack of practicality in their material lives on Earth means they can very easily become lost, not having a rational way out of the mess. Often the restraints of 'religion-rule' based lives means they cannot turn to certain people or institutuions for help, and their church cannot help them for the same reasons.
The lack of rationality and practicality caused by the total belief in God/the Church to sort their lives out is a worry, and I believe this is where the efforts of any organised religion that I know of fall down.
i could never be christian because the ...
i could never be christian because the music is so bad.
Yep, manamana just banged the nail into ...
Yep, manamana just banged the nail into the cross. I'd rather listen to a Venga Boys anthology then be preached to in song format.
and before anyone tries to defend ...
and before anyone tries to defend it......
IT CAN NEVER BE GOOD BECAUSE ITS NEVER ABOUT MUSIC.
Nope, it's all about money and ...
Nope, it's all about money and right-wing conservate values. Christian music is all slickly produced and commercially packaged aiming to sell millions. Pehaps this is why it's so fucking generic.
manamana, you rock. I suddenly feel in ...
manamana, you rock. I suddenly feel in very good company being a heretic.
Christianity is a brain washing cult, ...
Christianity is a brain washing cult, which should have been rid of years ago
isint being an athiest the only ...
isint being an athiest the only "religion" you can be in without having to belive in anything?apart from beliveing in nothing?:Sdamn that sounds contradicting
Actually, 'Atheists', just don't ...
Actually, 'Atheists', just don't beleive in religion Fullstop, It's Agnostics, that don't beleive or disbeleive...
This may seem unthinkable, but imagine ...
This may seem unthinkable, but imagine if the Bible, Jesus Christ, Almighty God, the Creator of the universe is right, and you are wrong! Imagine that...you wrong? Look at i this way. If you are right, then there is no Creator, no after-life, no justice, no Heaven and no Hell, you won even get the chance to say "I told you so!". If you are right then creation was an accident, the Bible is but fables, and Jesus Christ was a liar. If you are right, then you will one day be dead, and truly passed on. i ask again, is it possible that you are wrong?? Have you ever been wrong? are you divinely infallible? are you different from the rest of us? Human nature is prone to error, the person who invented the eraser on the pencil knew that. so, disasteradio, it says in the Word that "He who loves his life will lose it, but he who loses his life (spiritually, by giving up the things in your life that seperate you from God) for my sake, will find it"
You could turn this around, you know - ...
You could turn this around, you know - imagine that _you_ are wrong, along with all the other God-worshippers. Essential, the entire Western world has spent the last 2000 years building houses of worship for, and spending vast amounts of time and money on, an imaginary friend.
If I had an imaginary friend and spent the kind of time and effort on her that Christians do on their God, I'd be locked up.;
but how can anyone claim to know what ...
but how can anyone claim to know what is right?
i don't know what is true and what is not, at least i can admit that. i also don't think theres any way i'm going to find out for certain until the day of my death. therefore if i was to pick a religion, i wouldn't pick the one that forces me to deny almost everything that comes naturally to me.
has it ever dawned on you that it is ...
has it ever dawned on you that it is you and your little band of fanatics who might be wrong? All you people turn to your so called god when you run across hard time in your life and are lost for answers so you decide, because of your ignorance, that it must be the god's will and it's for the best because god knows what he is doing and you are not to question him. god is the answer for all your failings and succeses, no credit goes to you. Think about it, your life is what you make it, there is no spirit watching over you. Stop being someones sheep and live your life for yourself and not for promises of better things to come when you die.
//Human nature is prone to error, the ...
//Human nature is prone to error, the person who invented the eraser on the pencil knew that.
Unfortunately, the Bible was written by HUMANS largely before the eraser on the pencil was invented.
I think South Park did it best when ...
I think South Park did it best when they said the only correct religion is Mormon and everyone else goes to hell. South Park is so underrated.
so???...
so???
yes South Park is great...
yes South Park is great