There was an argument going in The Bar over whether or not Canada was really a little America, and whether or not NZ was really a little Australia (NO WAY!)...
WHich got me to thinking... Does each country have a unique sound? NZ Maori seem to have ripped off Black America with their adoption of Hip-hop, The Islands with the Ukelele sound. THis is all very debatable and maybe Im wrong....
But can anyone quote me a band that they would get behind as Kiwi's and unite in saying that this is our sound? No-one else can produce anything to sound like this!? Or can the world be recognised only as one global Musical community? Or do we all copy America?
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//NZ Maori seem to have ripped off ...
//NZ Maori seem to have ripped off Black America with their adoption of Hip-hop
this is so true, and it seems amusing to me that NZ maori are infulenced by what African Americans on the otherside of the world say hence "upper hut posse"
//Or do we all copy America
in some ways yes, because to my knowledge americia is the biggest music market in the world, and there music goes global, but i wouldnt go as far to say we copy them, there sounds seems to influence ours because its what we have grown up listening to. so yeah i think the world is one global music community in that way, so no i cant think of a NZ band that is a true kiwi sound :s
if there was no such thing as america ...
if there was no such thing as america then what accent would we sing in?
english...
english
NZ accents are completely different to ...
NZ accents are completely different to americans?
arent they?
Good point. But werent Americans ...
Good point. But werent Americans originally English anyway? -so the accent wouldve evolved one way or another.
In the time of Shakespeare and shortly ...
In the time of Shakespeare and shortly after, the English had a very "hard R" drawl. It was kind of like what you'd hear in Texas (or Appalachian hillfolk, more accurately). After they came over here to colonize the English accent evolved much differently on both sides of the Atlantic; but what we speak in America today is a much closer representation of what Shakespearian actors would have sounded like.
Linguistics is a bizarre science. That was a little off track, sorry.
//NZ Maori seem to have ripped off ...
//NZ Maori seem to have ripped off Black America with their adoption of Hip-hop
nah ... for one thing, it aint only Mäori doing Yankie sounding music. For another, there's a huge Pacifica sound coming thru all the generic guff - King Kapisi to name a local famous genius.
i think it's the same whenever a new genre comes thru. i wasn't around in the 60s, but like the rest of the world we were there copying the Beatles and the brit invasion (my ma and pa have some naff records from that era) but eventually we found our feet and did our own thing with the genre.
People like the Clean (hail!) were influenced by the Velvet Underground and being unable to hear stuff like that live, played it to please themselves ... but through even lower levels of technology and the need for number 8 wire solutions, it ended up sounding like NZ, one facet of the Flying Nun sound.
i'm not worried. Yankie sounds are just a starting point for a lot of people. the best people will continue on from that and innovate, reflect what's around them, here.
if all music is based off something, ...
if all music is based off something, WTF is death metal based off??help anyone/
///NZ Maori seem to have ripped off ...
///NZ Maori seem to have ripped off Black America with their adoption of Hip-hop
//this is so true, and it seems amusing to me that NZ maori are infulenced by what African Americans on the otherside of the world say hence "upper hut posse"
Maori are not the only New Zealanders who are influenced by musicians on the other side of the world. Every single last rock band to come out of New Zealand has influences from Britain and America. America is - after all - the home of rock 'n' roll.
Is it somehow wrong for Maori to be inspired for American hip-hop artists, but ok for whities to want to be like an American rock star?
[ http://www.secret-passage.com/ ]
Yeah but at least Rockers dont ...
Yeah but at least Rockers dont (Generally) adopt the try-hard culture! Why do Maori have to be all "East-side Mother Fuker", "C'z up!" and whatever, while hangingon to their waist-around-their-ankles-jeans, Blue (or red, depending on who you "RERAZENT FOOOL!") Bandanas, baseball uniform shirts.... and fubu puffer jacket.
What my not be so apparent is that I am Maori. And proud to be. I just think its sad to see all these wannabe gangsters. I say again that Prince Tui Teka was wicked! and there are a fewe more Maori artists coming up -mostly not mainstream tho, who are prouding a sound similar but unique to their own...
Sweden has that 'scratchy-rock' sound. Englandwith that chill-out and pop stuff (Coldplay, Liberty X -let me not utter that name again). America just rips everyone else off before they notice... I now reckon
its good to see some maoris who arent ...
its good to see some maoris who arent caugh up in that illusion that they are gangsters, i really hate it.
//Yeah but at least Rockers dont (Generally) adopt the try-hard culture!
its so true, has a metalhead or a gath ever asked you for a fight because of the colour of youre clothes??
The Front Lawn/ Muttonbirds can only be ...
The Front Lawn/ Muttonbirds can only be classed as total kiwi music.
what's to be done though ? I've been ...
what's to be done though ? I've been racking my brains about how to be less.. hmm I guess less european as well as not only american in what I do.. electronic music culture / conventions are tricky in the respect that it happened to come into fruition as the world was "opening up" globally.. it seems electronic artists here either gravitate towards dnb or dub primarily.. which I reckon pretty much stinks.
I don't know whether you could undertake hiphop -without- being american at least in one sense or the other, as the genre is very much american-centered. It's wierd. I was thinking maybe the kiwi vocal "cringe factor" may be just stemmed from what we -haven't- been hearing for the last how many decades. so yeah.. lots of sleep has been lost on this very conundrum around my ways..
[ http://mp3.com.au/disasteradio ]
HHHHHhhhhmmmm. Electronica'a a ...
HHHHHhhhhmmmm. Electronica'a a toughie. Why not just shut yourself in a room for a couple of weeks, not listening to any music at all. Go back to your tables, keyboard or whatever (sorry bro, Im a guitarist so I aint got any idea what u use), tutu with some nobs on your synthesiser and let it all flow....
I agree tho, electronica seems to be morely a global thing than anything, but I like what Oceania did... that sort of house-y sound with all the Maori overtones came together really well. I reckon that could easily be classed as unique-to-this-country-in-a-global-based-genre.
//I don't know whether you could undertake hiphop -without- being american at least in one sense or the other, as the genre is very much american-centered.
But why tho? Why not just concerntrate on a uniquely Kiwi genre? -PRINCE TUI TEKA!!!!!! I finally found some one Id b proud to stand bhind and call Kiwi! -how many countries have produced a sound like his?
//Why not just shut yourself in a room ...
//Why not just shut yourself in a room for a couple of weeks, not listening to any music at all. Go back to your tables, keyboard or whatever
heh I usually do just that (well I've been stuck inside for the last 2 weeks 'cause of this super-flu thingy, and I managed to finish my second album).. and by the by, I play the computer ;)..
we used to be like a little canada, ...
we used to be like a little canada, remember growing up, not really having to lock the doors, chilling out.
no we are like a little america, all fucked up and getting more scared by reality everyday.
Have you seen the film "Bowling for ...
Have you seen the film "Bowling for Columbine"?
If so, that would explain what you wrote.
If not, you should see.
[ http://www.secret-passage.com/ ]
hmm some people seem to forget that ...
hmm some people seem to forget that little old new zealand can influence the rest of the world. talk to eddie vedder who soem of his primary influences were and he will note split enz down as one. some one the other day suggested that the enz are intrinsicly [sic] new zealand. and what about pavement having been inspire by some of the the early flying nun music.
anyway I think that the original argument is sort of flawed yet it has some merit to. pacific hip hop and the sounds of south auckland carry a new zealand flavour to them. it may have been inspired by the streets of LA or the cotton fields of the south anyway that is how music evolves.
it is isn't just the american sound have a look at the wellington scene there is a huge regae and last time I checked there was very little good reggae coming out of the states as a matter of fact outside of jamica new zealand has the highest per capita consumption of regae music.
I will take a stab at the prince tui teka thing as a whole lot of cultures fused tradition with electronica in the '80's yothu yindi in Australia and various cultural groups in africa.
anyway that is another rant. I guess the key thing is to make sure that new music isn't a cookie cutter of the past.
rant rant
I don't think that every country has a ...
I don't think that every country has a unique sound. However I do think that certain aspects of a country can effect a band's sound. Like social and political changes for example.
I conceec that culture can have a ...
I conceec that culture can have a significant influence on a country's sound. But the only time I can recall Political stuff afecting music was punk and R.A.T.M, and that was just RAAAARAAAAARRRAAAAAAAAAAA....I HATE POLITICIANS!!!!!.......
So... HOw?
Yeah you are right about punk and RATM, ...
Yeah you are right about punk and RATM, but stuff like Ska, Reggae and Hip-Hop were also born out of political unrest too. Just look at Bob Marley, Public Enemy and The Specials, all very political and that shouty (Well maybe public enemy just a little). :-)
it doesn't have to be shouty to be ...
it doesn't have to be shouty to be political
some songs that are common place are born out of political messages, we are talking about people like bob dylan, most of the music that was made in the '60's the rots of blues music is in the cotton fields and the oppresion that those people faced at the hands of the slaves drivers in fact they often used the songs that were singing to plan escapes and to tell everyone what the plan was. (more in code than straight out saying "ok we are going to leg it over the fence tonight"
subtext and metaphors is where a lot of message is.
but if want to look for music with a message that isn't shouty and is current might I suggest micheal franti.
Aaah... Michael Franti - sooo ...
Aaah... Michael Franti - sooo brilliant. Just got me a copy of Songs From The Front Porch that were on sale at the Acoustic gigs. mmmm. Such a nice guy.
If you want a shouty local political band... there is one or two around... well at least one... check out Idle Faction - we just got an artists page.
Ah... shameless self promotion...
Let me guess, you are the guy in the ...
Let me guess, you are the guy in the middle with the big grin?
What makes you say that? But yeah......
What makes you say that?
But yeah...
'cause you have a big smile!!! Niceguy ...
'cause you have a big smile!!! Niceguy Eddie/big smile/Niceguy Eddie/big smile.
I had to draw the conclusion (its a compliment)
This is terrible I now sound like a groupie.....I'm going to stop..
now
I could handle having a groupie from ...
I could handle having a groupie from The Phoenix Foundation... but I am straight, dude :)
Wow, you look just like your icon....
Wow, you look just like your icon.
I guess I do :)...
I guess I do :)
You gotta realise that man has been on ...
You gotta realise that man has been on this earth for a fuckin long time and the popular culture of today has only existed for 50 or 60 years. Thats, like, one generation. As western civilisation has spread around the world (and with it, technology and information), the idea of individual culture has been replaced by a global culture. How is it possible for a country as young as New Zealand to refine its interpretation of global popular culture to the extent that it can claim a strain as its own in the space of one generation? The only culture that Aotearoa can claim as it's own is Maori culture (minus the hip hop and reggae).
America is the most fucked up country because it's a melting pot of every nation and culture in the world trying to call itself one people. Thats what America is based on, every nation in the world looked at it as "the land of the free" and flocked there. The reason modern culture is influenced by American culture is because they were a microcosm of the world as it would be, before countries like New Zealand or Australia even got to their feet (in terms of a modern perspective of course, the maori were doing just fine before the west turned up) . Even British pop culture was influenced by American rock'n'roll and blues in the 50's. America was a global culture first and everyone else just follows suit. Bands around the world still wear denim like James Dean did.
New Zealand musicians have taken what they know of American and British music and played their own versions of it but we can't call it a uniquely New Zealand sound. Even artists like Birchville Cat Motel and Dead C are doing what has already happened overseas. More often than not New Zealand bands do it better and with more originality and that is something we should be fuckin proud of. Even some American bands recognize that and are influenced by NZ bands (eg Pavement). But they are inspired by the songwriting and attitude, not a new sound coming fresh from the other side of the world.
This is my personal opinion of course and I have been known to be wrong before.
//the maori were doing just fine before ...
//the maori were doing just fine before the west turned up
umm werent maori living in punga huts and killing moas before we showed up??
...............................are you ...
...............................are you actually serious nonbreed?
//This is my personal opinion of ...
//This is my personal opinion of course
Woah, sage. You're bang on the money, blueberry.
Damn fine assessment of the US, ...
Damn fine assessment of the US, Blueberry! I'd move to NZ in a heartbeat to get out of this cesspool- erm, "melting pot"!
[ http://www.concussion1.com ]
//...............................are ...
//...............................are you actually serious nonbreed?
course not, i intended that to be humourous, guess it wasnt though :s
//How is it possible for a country as ...
//How is it possible for a country as young as New Zealand to refine its interpretation of global popular culture to the extent that it can claim a strain as its own in the space of one generation?
Didn't you know, that's the key these days. I'm surprised New Zealand hasn't set a deadline for this enterprise, by which time an appropriate New Zealand (tm) identity must have been established and marketed, or else there'll be hell to pay - all those opportunity cost dollars going 'down the drain' because of our infuriating desire to be patient. Time flies, especially when it's ALREADY been 10 minutes....
I don't necessarily think America is fucked up because of its cultural diversity (I don't even think it's as fucked as people make out), I think it has more to do with their exaggerated sense of unity. Rather than being too fragmented, they are too unified - to the point where they hang American flags off ever hook in town. (warning: gross generalisations may harm your baby)
//New Zealand musicians have taken what they know of American and British music
I see what you're meaning, yet I don't think it's true as such. Who's to say where musical identity begins? Can you pinpoint ONE moment where something was created from zilch? If so, how can you know someone, somewhere hasn't already done something that's 'new'?
Influences begin and end with knowledge. I reckon a bit more ignorance might do something magical to music.