Red Devil obviously lacks in TRUE inspiration - which is strong enough to overcome the "there's nothing new under the sun" ideology and spawn original thought which leads to original creation. There's really little point in just becoming a parody of what has already being. Also optimism etc etc is most commonly not as big a source of inspiration as sadness or worse devastation, which forces you to use music to save yourself and thus pushes you to a new level. If you dispute this fine, and actually it's probably better overall to be happy and a less inspiring artist than risk total despair, but Bic Ringa (one of our premier singer/songwriters) was asked about this once and replied simply "Sadness is a stronger emotion." She has times spent down no doubt - but when she's up...she soars.

chunnsta mate, how can you say that negativity is a stronger emotion? even if this is true for 99% of people, it's not a general rule!

you talk about red devil 'lacking in true inspiration' because he believes 'there's nothing new under the sun' - how can you reconcile this with claims that optimism isnt a very good tool to compose music with, in that you aren't truly believing that it can be? you're adhering to the 'optimism is naff' ideology and merely becoming a parody of all negative people that have come before you (to use your reasoning).

when i'm happy, there's nothing i want to do more than make beautiful music (various vomiting sounds)

Yes, sorry. < was an impulsive comment that I do regret. I don't wish to say what I get inspiration from because some people's sources are deeply personal. What I was trying to say is that one who is sad does not lack for inspiration generally because sadness will often come from being wronged and being wronged is the MOST inspirational thing - think Nelson Mandela etc etc, think what doesn't kill you (but comes close) makes you stronger etc etc. When you are sad it's tough to be happy, but happiness can turn to sadness in the blink of an eye - Ask yourself why this is..... Many find that happiness makes them relaxed, comfortable - is that really going to inspire you to produce something profound and if you're over the moon with life - will you care anyway?

// one who is sad does not lack for inspiration generally
i can semi-agree with that. only 'semi' in the sense that that doesnt exclude positivity as a creative device, or show that it is 'better' than positivity.

you have started to talk about the inspiration of music whereas i was just saying my main influence was optimism. of course you have to be down to be up yet why does creativity have to select negativity as a default? well, it doesn't for me.

you say being wronged is the most inspirational thing - im assuming because people are often passionate, determined and strive onwards against the tide when this sort of thing happens. well, i'm passionate when i fall in 'love' again - not just when i fall out of love!

//happiness makes them relaxed, comfortable - is that really going to inspire you to produce something profound and if you're over the moon with life - will you care anyway

YES. it doesn't make me relaxed and comfortable and content in the slothful way that you are implying... it makes me want to fly.... the closest i come to flying is making music. fuck i sound like a damn tree hugging hippy :) sorry had to get that outta my system.

im not saying you cant freely comment. but freely commenting on the creative community *as a whole* by saying that negativity is a stronger emotion is assuming everyone feels the same feelings as you. obviously this isn't the case and the fact that i prefer optimism as a creative tool is indisputable.

Yeah Incubus is a good point. What's that line about "we should all learn to love ourselves b4 it beomes illegal" (or something like that!) which is a piss-take of sorts of wallowing - there are probably even better ones I cannot think of by Incubus or that I simply don't know. I will always gravitate towards sadness as the most inspirational tool in the long run for me personally, because I see it all around me (not sadness, but its inspiration). Even the US versus Baghdad thing - the reason why this is so scary is because the Kuwaiti people are much more sad, depressed and wronged than Americans in general - they are therefore more determined, focused, aggrieved and capable of fighting well beyond their generation/means/economic capability. I mean isn't that why the US lost Vietnam. Anyway, I hate war, but I thought I'd raise it as another e.g. of sadness driving people to extremes - could this not apply to extremes in creativity, inspiration etc ?

I do hear what you are saying, I just suspect there may be a sadder truth for most. Big ups for keeping things positive and real tho dude. (I mean that too - I'm not taking the piss).

Fair enough. I see what you are saying and the cheeky song was a bit of a cop out!! However you can see that recently the ability to write really good posistive music or song has been lost somewhat, because, as U say, some of the classical pieces from a while ago are unashamebly uplifting in their outlook.
I guess great songwriting comes from self-awareness and epiphany (espepially epiphany - or songs that write themselves) and this so often comes from sadness or adversity.

Coldplay, who I love as lyricists and musicians (keeping it simple and letting the material do the work), received more mixed reviews for "A Rush Of Blood To The Head" which is less consistent than "Parachutes" (although albums following great albums often suffer from comparative tall poppy reviewer syndrome) - I think that it is possible that this is because the melancholy and heartache which so indisputedly inspired the first album was two years more diluted by the time the second was written. Just a thought.

Your stories sound like fun, V - are they published? I don't know if I'd agree with the idea that artists are "stealing" - its more like any artist in pretty much any field is part of a trajectory - it is inevitable that a musician will be influenced by what they've listened to, as well as other life experiences, just like those of us at the more writerly end of things. There was a time not so long ago that writers had to acknowledge and incorporate their predecessors. Part of "art" is playing with prior art, making it your own.

Speaking of stealing - have people heard about the Booker prize winner "Life of Pi", alleged by a Brazillian author to be plagiarism, because they both incorporate the same basic idea of a boy being stuck on a small boat with a wild animal - this is a good example in my view of inspiration. Yann Martell heard about the Brazillian novella, thought "hmm, that's an interesting premise, wonder what I can make of it" and generates a prize winning work of fiction.

//It also helps, being a writer, to own the complete unabridged Oxford English Dictionary in twenty-//two leather bound volumes. That thing is fascinating. I could read it for hours.

Now that's the kind of line that works with me!

"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief. All kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief"

'The Fly' - U2

ahhhhhhh very true ollie. Though there are loop holes. When people come from say a shitty environment and they are happy sometimes it spurrs good music.

Pyschocandy : jesus and marychain
CODY and rockaction: mogwai
at action park: shellac

sometimes when people are shitty and sad they make their worst music.
ie ok i cant think of some right now but i am sure there is some somewhere.

Yes but doesn't the mix come from the happy songs really being more specifically songs of hope that have being inspired by a need to counteract feelings of insecurity or the hopelessness of the love lost songs etc....

I find more songs are hopeful than outright happy - because happiness is something we all feel we should have and are owed by the nature of only truly knowing ourselves, whereas sadness is an afront, something we didn't ask for and therefore must be battled and fought - if this is with music then it will often be a great piece of work because if it fails......the consequences will be more severe than failing to articulate your joy. Surely?

I dunno bout stealing... I mean I know what you're saying Jenni- when you were asked to design a bicycle helmet, I guess it's a given that there are certain parameters you would normally abide by. It would be different if you were asked to design 'something which will protect the head from impact...' you could go crazy with a whole bunch of different ideas- things really open up.

It's a bit like the difference between saying 'write a song' or 'write a 3-piece noise-rock song with a cool riff and fast tempo...'

I like being able to set my own 'design briefs,' it's easy to take that for granted I guess.

Well, I guess I'm more at odds with the idea of thinking of myself as a thief: I don't mind the idea that I'm borrowing from my experiences, because they're uniquely mine anyway- I don't see that as stealing, provided I keep an eye out for copyrights... :) isn't the idea of a copyright based on the premise that you're documenting a new idea so that no-one else can take it? How can that be, given the 'stealing' concept?

I think it's a little naive to presume there's nothing out there that you haven't seen before, as much as it is naive to think of your idea as being trully unique.

It is a wise perspective to maintain that there is no beginning or end to things. That way the notion of creativity is based on movement from one state of existence to another. I did not 'invent' the note 'G,' or it's relationship with other notes. I did not invent the electric guitar. But they're certainly examples of many contributing factors contained in the original music I make.

I agree with the idea that there is a flow to things, and that nothing really ever lives or dies. But that doesn't explain how a song can just arrive in my head one day on the way to work, drums, bass, vocals and everything, fully formed, when I've never heard it before. Where did all that come from? It felt a lot like it came from nowhere- even though I know that can't be true, you know, it must've come from somewhere. All the same, just moments before I was thinking about the grocery list, then all I could think about was this new song... that's my experience of it. Like a switch being flicked on.

So I'm confused. I subscribe to 'the flow of things' theory, but my experience shows me different. And that's about it really.

-Peace

(foetusboy realises how incoherent his last post was) err... more coffee is required, I think.

I'm not sure... but with the benefit of hindsight, here's what I'm trying to say...

How much of your ideas do you really own?

Sometimes I feel like I have very little part in the songs I write, especially when they arrive in my head from out of nowhere, completely uninvited. If I don't write it down or record it somewhere within 30 minutes or so, the idea will be gone forever. I can't get them back- I don't know where these ideas come from or where they go. If I knew I'd go there and stay there as long as I could.

These are the kinds of ideas that always sound the best to me, but how can I really say they're mine? What work did I do to come up with them? Very little to none.

But I didn't steal them either- I didn't go out to write a song, it's like the song found me.

Wierd huh. And after aall that, I probably sound just as incoherent... maybe I should quit while I'm behind...

-Peace