Well to get more punters I think a reputation needs to be created among the general public of how mind alterating a gig can be. Possibly they need to understand that a band doesn't suck just because they aren't on the radio nor have a video clip on tv.
They need to be aware of the venues, where they are and what they offer.
Bands need to publicise when the gig starts and start at that time, none of this stalling. Expecting a show then waiting around for ages sucks.
Perhaps beer could be sold at a cheaper price during gigs making the cover charge easier to bear. Why pay extra to dance and drink when you can do so at a club without the charge? (see also beginning)
Andoru will hate this because basically it means becoming more mainstream in all aspects.
What I want to know is, where have all the old punters gone? Or where do they go? Is it really to dnb nights or what?
there's just so much diversity these days, a lot more things you can do than go see a live band. not many people are into one specific genre of music, than was the case say a decade and a bit ago.
you're so right about //They need to be aware of the venues, where they are and what they offer.
Bands need to publicise when the gig starts and start at that time, none of this stalling.
i've found with some of my non-scene friends that these are the things that stop them coming. tell them where, when, what time, and what they might expect in the way of snooty people in the scene really helps get them into attending ... once they do come along once, they're hooked and will turn up to other gigs/other bands, try new things.
it's tricky ... Jeremy Elwood wrote something lately about how we should actually charge a decent amount for a gig, because comparatively they are the equivalent of movies/theatre/a good couple of hours entertainment. i can see his point, but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands, get curious people off the street and past the door so they can at least check it out and not bawk at the cover charge ...
SO true about charging less to attract curious passers by, when The White Stripes played in Hamiltron they charged something like $2 which was awesome unfortunatley i missed it so im kicking myself!!
// Jeremy Elwood wrote something lately about how we should actually charge a decent amount for a gig, because comparatively they are the equivalent of movies/theatre/a good couple of hours entertainment. i can see his point, but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands
True because as far as the music scene is concerned it is the reputation of the band that dictates the price, not the amount of bands or their actual ability. Frequency is also a factor. If a band plays a lot of gigs in short spaces of time then people are less likely to fork out a decent amount of money to see them more than once within the span of a few weeks or a month.
// but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands, get curious people off the street
true.....easier........but is it beneficial for the artists concerned. If there were alot of foot traffic just "dropping" by then i think this would be an issue. Having been on the door at a few gigs taking money, i hardley ever notice people just dropping in who won't pay a decent charge.
$3 for 4 bands, how the hell are you meant to put on a gig for this sort of money??? I know basically all bands around would rather play and don't really care about the money....but is this good enough? I'm sick of bands not making any cash.......fuck covers bands make shitloads yet originals bands make dick.
I reckon once you price something to make it more exclusive, suddenly it becomes more appealing......also the more legendary it becomes when you do play these cheap gigs, ie...white stripes, or shihad@valve......if these bands played at these prices all the time, the discounted shows wouldn't be special....
when you assign a value to a show like $3. All the bands playing seem cheap and shitty. If you price it at $8/$10/$12 sure you may get less people initially, but when you do develop your fanbase suddenly it is not so difficult to start trying to make money to get recordings and tour.
if it looks and smells like shit (ie gig for $3) it's usually shit. people won't come because they think the bands must be shit to charge that little, if the gig costs more, people believe/realise that the bands must be pretty good to charge that much.....
// but is it beneficial for the artists concerned.
To begin with, possibly yes. It gives the band exposure, once they have that and build a reputation then their price can go up. In a way it is screwed up and I wish it was different.
// once they have that and build a reputation then their price can go up
obviously bro.. i'm not talking about bands that just start out....but if more experienced bands are putting there prices for shows up, then the smaller bands can start to follow suit, and suddenly it becomes more attractive to play gigs...
yeah.....that's what this whole discussion is about.......if i put on a show. i want to have a $1000 budget..radio advertsing, lighting, posters, sound it mall adds up....if $10 becomes accepted as a norm, then suddenly putting on these shows becomes a viable option....at the moment it's hard to charge more then $5, so you have to skimp on lighting and advertsing....and shows just look like standard pub gigs.
what i was saying in the previous forum, was that production standards needed to come up as well as price. Punters come along to shows and just see boring lights with dull posters, and a flat audience...this all needs to change. How..........good question....i've been discussing the idea with people in wellington about there being a specialist event production company in wellington who have the money to put towards events and bring the production of rock gigs to the standard of dance parties. Who has this sort of money.....??? this i think is what is needed.
// a specialist event production company in wellington who have the money to put towards events and bring the production of rock gigs to the standard of dance parties.
Why not hook up with an open minded dance crew? Heloid, for instance, seem to have a large supply of lighting and advertising and good sound systems. They also considered a rock zone for the latest Wonderland rave.
Why not team up? I don't think that the dance and rock scenes are as far apart as some people think.
///a specialist event production company in wellington who have the money to put towards events and bring the production of rock gigs to the standard of dance parties. Who has this sort of money.....???
I'm sure this has been considered but FWIW:
... the way to discuss/pitch/view this problem is actually not who has the money, but who has worked out the business model. The money is easy, it's getting a process and reliable delivery going that reduces the risk of money being lost - thats all that 'money' cares about - no more no less. If this can be acheived then money for event planning is very very easy. In fact i know there is 'money' that doesn't mind breaking even for cultural pursuits.
tis all true. i am trying to get my head around event production and am still working out the model to not make a loss. all the stress's, my last event a couple of weeks back saw 3 hip hop djs who i'd booked being stuck in auckland because of the fuckn fog at wellington airport. I took a loss on that gig, as on pretty much every other gig i've organised.....ah well...it's a learning curve...i really want to get behind producing some amazing rock shows in welly, just need to make sure that there is a market there
// the money is easy, it's getting a process and reliable delivery going that reduces the risk of money being lost
exactly. Sorry I worded my last post in a rush. A production company needs to at least break even and with a typical band's reputation with money guranteed payment is not a given.
//$3 for 4 bands, how the hell are you meant to put on a gig for this sort of money?
in many ways i guess i'm lucky - Dunedin is a pedestrian city. I guess in other places, you have to decide to go into town, and if you see "live band, $7" it aint a big deal, but it certainly is here. There's more of a chance to get people in off the street here.
As for promotion, we have a smaller city to cover. There are probably 50 or so areas to put posters. Venues provide soundpeople/lights for free, and often publicise or have some arrangement with Radio 1 to advertise what's on.
Our overheads are so incredibly low that we always end up making a (sometimes 'token') profit. Often that'll get eaten up by the alcohol we drink on the night, or a run of dodgy posters that don't come out right, but I guess I consider myself real lucky considering what many of you are saying you have to do to run a gig.
jimi.....in reply to your comment on the die dj die forum...
yeah bro. it's what i am trying to say, we need to take tips from dance events and apply them to rock gigs. I think all prices for all bands need to come up, because as i said above, people presume bands are shit because they play for cheap.
i'm all for the contiuation of cheap gigs, but they need to become special rather then standard
I believe that if an unknown band was to play a gig in a town they hadn't plyed in....if they had big posters, decent advertising and playign a gig for $10...people would come along because they would assume the band was good even though they hadn't heard of them....if you were to play for $2 and not advertise much because of there being no possibility of making the money back...only a couple of music wankers would come along to see you................my theory.........yet to put in practise.....
I think the venues should come to the party more after all it's the bands that are getting people in the door and making them thirsty. Venues like the Dux offer guarantees that make it worth while for the bands to play and allow them to do away with cover charges.
did i say that on the other forum................something that the TLBT dudes commented was that in melbourne the venue gives the band $2 per head that come on the door as well as a guarantee.
I'd love to see this model followed, not doing away with a door charge, i feel this does more harm then good, but venues offering money to bands/promoters if the turnout if good. The great thing about good rock shows is that the venue sells a hell of alot through the bar as opposed to dance parties where evryone's just pillin'. Some of this money needs to find it's way into the hands of promoters so more gigs happen.
Mr Fraser Bodega used to offer guarantees - does he still do that? (and you could always trade the money guarantee against more free beer!!) I think this is an important consideration - not the free beer thing.
Free entry for punters (the bar makes its money at the bar) encourages a 'regulars' audience, and a drop-in audience like in chch - people just go to the dux and end up watching whoever is playing (of couse the dux is two bars and a restaurant so they're coining it every night). Band gets paid a reasonable fee, the venue has an interest in ensuring a good permanent sound/lighting rig and promotion, a reputation for the place forms ... &c ....
Here's the thing - the up and coming bands thrive on regular income from bars like the dux and guaranteed payments from student union gigs (assuming this still happens) builds the band coffers for touring / recording ... its a virtuous circle, and with good management and promotion the clever bar will become the centrifugal force of the local scene - a place in the pantheon of the good and the great in nz music, and profit at the bar.
> because they would assume the band was good even though they hadn't heard of them
i really don't think the *main* deciding factor as to why individuals decide whether or not to go to a gig is the bands. i really suspect it's what their friends are doing and whether there are going to be a decent amount of other people there.
so we need to create *hype*, which means more media attention (or word of mouth if that's going to do the trick). i think blink had a good point about lighting and postering... if you skimp on these, your gig looks mediocre right from the start *in comparison*.
five years ago superette or garageland or dave dobbyn could do a one-colour-photocopy-on-blue-A3 poster run and that was the standard, people would go "wow dave dobbyn at bodega, i'm there". even though i know the bands and the scene better than joe public, i still look at posters and go "wow cool foamy ed are playing" but have no idea who else is... the shiny blue posters caught my eye and stuck, and the matte photocopies didn't.
(yeah yeah the drummer being on the poster didn't hurt)
maybe a good way to start building the kind of publicity needed, is to have something recurring that people can remember. i know if i see 'Bass Frontiers' on a poster i know i'll like it, and i'll probably go, and i'll have no clue who's playing. what i'm suggesting is the idea of a promotion company... not being business-minded, i envisage just a bunch of bands who organise gigs amongst themselves and stick some 'THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SHIT' badge on their shiny posters each time.
// i envisage just a bunch of bands who organise gigs amongst themselves and stick some 'THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SHIT' badge on their shiny posters each time.
Some kind of Shit Hot logo on a rock collective's posters would be cool... so long as we manage to not be generic. Every Bass Frontiers night (to use your example) is generic, the same shit (granted, it is some good shit.)
And sponsors... maybe the first in the rock collective could be the NZMers... a logo that indicates that you run in these circles could be just what we need... nothing wrong with a local rock clique... just so long as that clique is huge... :)
///nothing wrong with a local rock clique... just so long as that clique is huge... :) //
good point. if the only bands in town that can gig with band X are band Y and band Z cos they're 'cool enough' everything falls over :P
luckily welly has quality music coming out of every pore.
> Every Bass Frontiers night (to use your example) is generic, the same shit
hrm, true. i think some kind of central repository needs to be made... a place where you can go to register your interest in being part of the collective. then the promotion has a pool of talent to push to the punters, and scope to keep it interesting gig to gig.
my guess on the role of the promoter...
* maintains list of available bands
* contacts bands to organise who plays what gigs
* contacts venues to organise when things happen
* organises lighting, lighting tech, sound tech, extra PA (man we're lucky to have in-venue PA!)
* solicits sponsorship/ad space on the posters
* contracts design, manufacture and distribution of posters
* organises other publicity (in-stores, live-to-airs, interviews on squeeze)
* organises someone to take the money
i guess they'd be taking a large part of the door take because that is a helluva lot of organising!! this mythical person MUST live in welly somewhere. it ain't me, i play keyboards.
// but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands, get curious people off the street
//true.....easier........but is it beneficial for the artists concerned. If there were //alot of foot traffic just "dropping" by then i think this would be an issue. Having //been on the door at a few gigs taking money, i hardley ever notice people just //dropping in who won't pay a decent charge
Okay, what you guys are discussing here is the "Music Industry" at its most basic level. The challange IS getting people through the door, and to do that you have to work out a strategy that works with the style of music you're playing, which dictates the audience you are aiming for. The industry today is so high powered.. it's getting harder for joe bloggs to form a band, go out and play a few gigs and hit it big. Bands have to take more into account simply than just their song writing. Image is a massive factor, it directly relates to hype, marketing and advertising and should also be incorporated into the actual music. You can't expect people to take notice of something that they don't find interesting, poster work is one thing radio is another but just hoping that ppl are gonna come to your gig because the price is low is stupid. It's waranted if you are just starting up, and haven't practised alot together. The best bands have been playing together for years, and work for their crowds. Another way to think about it, live shows are *part* of your advertising/marketing campaign.. you have to have a product that can sell itself on as many different levels as possible. I'm crapping on, I know. I've played some dead gigs before and the price didn't enter into at all, is all I'm trying to say.
hmmm slighty off the “definitive answer to the debate of what makes a good show” but heres what I think about gig prices anyway.
$10 for any NZ rock band who’ve built up some sort of following and arent radio superstars. obviously this doesnt mean that all bands who get airplay should charge more than 10 dollars. although it shouldn’t mean they cant, or arent allowed too!
$5-$7 for a band who are putting on there first or first few shows, once a few similar faces start appearing at the gigs then maybe have a think about moving up to $7-$8 or something. i’ve always thought 7 as a number looks nicer than an 8.
these prices relate to local bands playing on their hometurf.
in my limited experience, people are more willing to spend $5 than $4, or $10 than $7, cause we're so lazy that breaking up a note or counting out coins is too hard. >:( we're a lazy nation
Interesting topic...I'm in the thick of organising a gig at The Civic in Chch for Jan 25. 5 wicked bands, from 8pm - 1am, a free beer, surprise MC, and 3 prize giveaways, all for $8 on the door...
in response to the above comments about a specialist production company.
why not get something together there seems to be a shit load of people in these forums that see it as a good idea. and between you I sure you can fudge togther resource.
there was a company a few years ago splash I think (I wish I could remember their name) the had the right idea they just dipped their hands in the till a little too much ( if I have this point wrong please feel free to set me straight)
they hand bands on their books collectively negotiated a deal with york street to book it out for a weekend and each band hand several hours to record.
The had the right idea just not enough business skill to manage this, it folded and a few of us got burnt.
(If any one knows whether york street still have the tapes let us know)
any way what I am saying is get the people who have the skills together and do it. a collective of artist and related individuals to make it happen. I am sure there are enough people with "real" jobs and resource to make this happen. just look what happened when fur patrol released the star lifter EP it covered it's production costs.
If a collective is started... I will offer up some time and effort to help out, if needed. No skills as such... but enthusiasm counts for something, right?
a collective needs to be done right. I don't think bands should form a "collective" which may even further establish a clique mentality....but a non prejidous collective formed as more of a "union"
With a nod from alot of bands in one area, lighting companies, radio advertisers, poster printers, poster designers etc, etc can all be contacted to offer special rates to all bands in this group, to be the only company used by all these bands, a collective buying power is mush more then a single band....also to recieve maybe better conditions from particular venues....if the need arises.
no bands would be denied from being included but bands involved would need to perhaps adhere to a few guidelines...ie..their performances must be produced to a minimum acceptable standard and priced at a minimum decent rate....ie $5-2 bands, $7/$8 - 3 bands, $10 -4 Bands...$15 special gigs.
Also perhaps regular "local band nights" should be incouraged which are an open evening for all members of bands to meet up at a venue and meet other bands, cd's from all the bands would be played, and is a good opportunity to open the doors to younger, newer bands.
basically building a community where anyone's input is welcome
Beautiful, Blink. So how about some kind of beginning in the new year?... Starting off with one of those open band nights and get everyone in there talking about it. We could find a bar that isn't doing too well, and give it a bit of a boost :)
Someone would need to be nominated as some kind of spiritual leader... to guide and distribute tasks, etc.
I've done lighting, recording + mixing and I can sometimes fix things. I'm down for whatever.. this seems like a bit of an old post but it's a good idea for sure.
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Well to get more punters I think a ...
Well to get more punters I think a reputation needs to be created among the general public of how mind alterating a gig can be. Possibly they need to understand that a band doesn't suck just because they aren't on the radio nor have a video clip on tv.
They need to be aware of the venues, where they are and what they offer.
Bands need to publicise when the gig starts and start at that time, none of this stalling. Expecting a show then waiting around for ages sucks.
Perhaps beer could be sold at a cheaper price during gigs making the cover charge easier to bear. Why pay extra to dance and drink when you can do so at a club without the charge? (see also beginning)
Andoru will hate this because basically it means becoming more mainstream in all aspects.
What I want to know is, where have all the old punters gone? Or where do they go? Is it really to dnb nights or what?
there's just so much diversity these ...
there's just so much diversity these days, a lot more things you can do than go see a live band. not many people are into one specific genre of music, than was the case say a decade and a bit ago.
you're so right about //They need to be aware of the venues, where they are and what they offer.
Bands need to publicise when the gig starts and start at that time, none of this stalling.
i've found with some of my non-scene friends that these are the things that stop them coming. tell them where, when, what time, and what they might expect in the way of snooty people in the scene really helps get them into attending ... once they do come along once, they're hooked and will turn up to other gigs/other bands, try new things.
it's tricky ... Jeremy Elwood wrote something lately about how we should actually charge a decent amount for a gig, because comparatively they are the equivalent of movies/theatre/a good couple of hours entertainment. i can see his point, but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands, get curious people off the street and past the door so they can at least check it out and not bawk at the cover charge ...
SO true about charging less to attract ...
SO true about charging less to attract curious passers by, when The White Stripes played in Hamiltron they charged something like $2 which was awesome unfortunatley i missed it so im kicking myself!!
// Jeremy Elwood wrote something lately ...
// Jeremy Elwood wrote something lately about how we should actually charge a decent amount for a gig, because comparatively they are the equivalent of movies/theatre/a good couple of hours entertainment. i can see his point, but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands
True because as far as the music scene is concerned it is the reputation of the band that dictates the price, not the amount of bands or their actual ability. Frequency is also a factor. If a band plays a lot of gigs in short spaces of time then people are less likely to fork out a decent amount of money to see them more than once within the span of a few weeks or a month.
// but it's a lot easier to charge $3 ...
// but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands, get curious people off the street
true.....easier........but is it beneficial for the artists concerned. If there were alot of foot traffic just "dropping" by then i think this would be an issue. Having been on the door at a few gigs taking money, i hardley ever notice people just dropping in who won't pay a decent charge.
$3 for 4 bands, how the hell are you meant to put on a gig for this sort of money??? I know basically all bands around would rather play and don't really care about the money....but is this good enough? I'm sick of bands not making any cash.......fuck covers bands make shitloads yet originals bands make dick.
I reckon once you price something to make it more exclusive, suddenly it becomes more appealing......also the more legendary it becomes when you do play these cheap gigs, ie...white stripes, or shihad@valve......if these bands played at these prices all the time, the discounted shows wouldn't be special....
when you assign a value to a show like $3. All the bands playing seem cheap and shitty. If you price it at $8/$10/$12 sure you may get less people initially, but when you do develop your fanbase suddenly it is not so difficult to start trying to make money to get recordings and tour.
if it looks and smells like shit (ie gig for $3) it's usually shit. people won't come because they think the bands must be shit to charge that little, if the gig costs more, people believe/realise that the bands must be pretty good to charge that much.....
// but is it beneficial for the artists ...
// but is it beneficial for the artists concerned.
To begin with, possibly yes. It gives the band exposure, once they have that and build a reputation then their price can go up. In a way it is screwed up and I wish it was different.
// once they have that and build a ...
// once they have that and build a reputation then their price can go up
obviously bro.. i'm not talking about bands that just start out....but if more experienced bands are putting there prices for shows up, then the smaller bands can start to follow suit, and suddenly it becomes more attractive to play gigs...
that is true but you need to do more ...
that is true but you need to do more than just up the price.
yeah.....that's what this whole ...
yeah.....that's what this whole discussion is about.......if i put on a show. i want to have a $1000 budget..radio advertsing, lighting, posters, sound it mall adds up....if $10 becomes accepted as a norm, then suddenly putting on these shows becomes a viable option....at the moment it's hard to charge more then $5, so you have to skimp on lighting and advertsing....and shows just look like standard pub gigs.
what i was saying in the previous forum, was that production standards needed to come up as well as price. Punters come along to shows and just see boring lights with dull posters, and a flat audience...this all needs to change. How..........good question....i've been discussing the idea with people in wellington about there being a specialist event production company in wellington who have the money to put towards events and bring the production of rock gigs to the standard of dance parties. Who has this sort of money.....??? this i think is what is needed.
// a specialist event production ...
// a specialist event production company in wellington who have the money to put towards events and bring the production of rock gigs to the standard of dance parties.
Why not hook up with an open minded dance crew? Heloid, for instance, seem to have a large supply of lighting and advertising and good sound systems. They also considered a rock zone for the latest Wonderland rave.
Why not team up? I don't think that the dance and rock scenes are as far apart as some people think.
nice idea........
nice idea.....
I dream of a music production company, ...
I dream of a music production company, full stop. From funding for recordings to merchandise. Damn population.
Blink & responders: ///a specialist ...
Blink & responders:
///a specialist event production company in wellington who have the money to put towards events and bring the production of rock gigs to the standard of dance parties. Who has this sort of money.....???
I'm sure this has been considered but FWIW:
... the way to discuss/pitch/view this problem is actually not who has the money, but who has worked out the business model. The money is easy, it's getting a process and reliable delivery going that reduces the risk of money being lost - thats all that 'money' cares about - no more no less. If this can be acheived then money for event planning is very very easy. In fact i know there is 'money' that doesn't mind breaking even for cultural pursuits.
tis all true. i am trying to get my ...
tis all true. i am trying to get my head around event production and am still working out the model to not make a loss. all the stress's, my last event a couple of weeks back saw 3 hip hop djs who i'd booked being stuck in auckland because of the fuckn fog at wellington airport. I took a loss on that gig, as on pretty much every other gig i've organised.....ah well...it's a learning curve...i really want to get behind producing some amazing rock shows in welly, just need to make sure that there is a market there
// the money is easy, it's getting a ...
// the money is easy, it's getting a process and reliable delivery going that reduces the risk of money being lost
exactly. Sorry I worded my last post in a rush. A production company needs to at least break even and with a typical band's reputation with money guranteed payment is not a given.
//$3 for 4 bands, how the hell are you ...
//$3 for 4 bands, how the hell are you meant to put on a gig for this sort of money?
in many ways i guess i'm lucky - Dunedin is a pedestrian city. I guess in other places, you have to decide to go into town, and if you see "live band, $7" it aint a big deal, but it certainly is here. There's more of a chance to get people in off the street here.
As for promotion, we have a smaller city to cover. There are probably 50 or so areas to put posters. Venues provide soundpeople/lights for free, and often publicise or have some arrangement with Radio 1 to advertise what's on.
Our overheads are so incredibly low that we always end up making a (sometimes 'token') profit. Often that'll get eaten up by the alcohol we drink on the night, or a run of dodgy posters that don't come out right, but I guess I consider myself real lucky considering what many of you are saying you have to do to run a gig.
jimi.....in reply to your comment on ...
jimi.....in reply to your comment on the die dj die forum...
yeah bro. it's what i am trying to say, we need to take tips from dance events and apply them to rock gigs. I think all prices for all bands need to come up, because as i said above, people presume bands are shit because they play for cheap.
i'm all for the contiuation of cheap gigs, but they need to become special rather then standard
I believe that if an unknown band was to play a gig in a town they hadn't plyed in....if they had big posters, decent advertising and playign a gig for $10...people would come along because they would assume the band was good even though they hadn't heard of them....if you were to play for $2 and not advertise much because of there being no possibility of making the money back...only a couple of music wankers would come along to see you................my theory.........yet to put in practise.....
cheers bro - i think i'm ideologically ...
cheers bro - i think i'm ideologically spent ;)
I think the venues should come to the ...
I think the venues should come to the party more after all it's the bands that are getting people in the door and making them thirsty. Venues like the Dux offer guarantees that make it worth while for the bands to play and allow them to do away with cover charges.
did i say that on the other ...
did i say that on the other forum................something that the TLBT dudes commented was that in melbourne the venue gives the band $2 per head that come on the door as well as a guarantee.
I'd love to see this model followed, not doing away with a door charge, i feel this does more harm then good, but venues offering money to bands/promoters if the turnout if good. The great thing about good rock shows is that the venue sells a hell of alot through the bar as opposed to dance parties where evryone's just pillin'. Some of this money needs to find it's way into the hands of promoters so more gigs happen.
Mr Fraser Bodega used to offer ...
Mr Fraser Bodega used to offer guarantees - does he still do that? (and you could always trade the money guarantee against more free beer!!) I think this is an important consideration - not the free beer thing.
Free entry for punters (the bar makes its money at the bar) encourages a 'regulars' audience, and a drop-in audience like in chch - people just go to the dux and end up watching whoever is playing (of couse the dux is two bars and a restaurant so they're coining it every night). Band gets paid a reasonable fee, the venue has an interest in ensuring a good permanent sound/lighting rig and promotion, a reputation for the place forms ... &c ....
Here's the thing - the up and coming bands thrive on regular income from bars like the dux and guaranteed payments from student union gigs (assuming this still happens) builds the band coffers for touring / recording ... its a virtuous circle, and with good management and promotion the clever bar will become the centrifugal force of the local scene - a place in the pantheon of the good and the great in nz music, and profit at the bar.
> because they would assume the band ...
> because they would assume the band was good even though they hadn't heard of them
i really don't think the *main* deciding factor as to why individuals decide whether or not to go to a gig is the bands. i really suspect it's what their friends are doing and whether there are going to be a decent amount of other people there.
so we need to create *hype*, which means more media attention (or word of mouth if that's going to do the trick). i think blink had a good point about lighting and postering... if you skimp on these, your gig looks mediocre right from the start *in comparison*.
five years ago superette or garageland or dave dobbyn could do a one-colour-photocopy-on-blue-A3 poster run and that was the standard, people would go "wow dave dobbyn at bodega, i'm there". even though i know the bands and the scene better than joe public, i still look at posters and go "wow cool foamy ed are playing" but have no idea who else is... the shiny blue posters caught my eye and stuck, and the matte photocopies didn't.
(yeah yeah the drummer being on the poster didn't hurt)
maybe a good way to start building the kind of publicity needed, is to have something recurring that people can remember. i know if i see 'Bass Frontiers' on a poster i know i'll like it, and i'll probably go, and i'll have no clue who's playing. what i'm suggesting is the idea of a promotion company... not being business-minded, i envisage just a bunch of bands who organise gigs amongst themselves and stick some 'THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SHIT' badge on their shiny posters each time.
we should start *now*, too.
// i envisage just a bunch of bands who ...
// i envisage just a bunch of bands who organise gigs amongst themselves and stick some 'THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SHIT' badge on their shiny posters each time.
Some kind of Shit Hot logo on a rock collective's posters would be cool... so long as we manage to not be generic. Every Bass Frontiers night (to use your example) is generic, the same shit (granted, it is some good shit.)
And sponsors... maybe the first in the rock collective could be the NZMers... a logo that indicates that you run in these circles could be just what we need... nothing wrong with a local rock clique... just so long as that clique is huge... :)
///nothing wrong with a local rock ...
///nothing wrong with a local rock clique... just so long as that clique is huge... :) //
yeah man. as big as can be. i like it.
///nothing wrong with a local rock ...
///nothing wrong with a local rock clique... just so long as that clique is huge... :) //
good point. if the only bands in town that can gig with band X are band Y and band Z cos they're 'cool enough' everything falls over :P
luckily welly has quality music coming out of every pore.
> Every Bass Frontiers night (to use your example) is generic, the same shit
hrm, true. i think some kind of central repository needs to be made... a place where you can go to register your interest in being part of the collective. then the promotion has a pool of talent to push to the punters, and scope to keep it interesting gig to gig.
my guess on the role of the promoter...
* maintains list of available bands
* contacts bands to organise who plays what gigs
* contacts venues to organise when things happen
* organises lighting, lighting tech, sound tech, extra PA (man we're lucky to have in-venue PA!)
* solicits sponsorship/ad space on the posters
* contracts design, manufacture and distribution of posters
* organises other publicity (in-stores, live-to-airs, interviews on squeeze)
* organises someone to take the money
i guess they'd be taking a large part of the door take because that is a helluva lot of organising!! this mythical person MUST live in welly somewhere. it ain't me, i play keyboards.
anyone how much is fur patrol and ...
anyone how much is fur patrol and TLBT????
no one is answering me!!!
I'll answer you! I think it's ...
I'll answer you! I think it's $10bucks.
well i can get there, thats for certain ...
well i can get there, thats for certain :D
but getting home, now thats another thing....
hahahaha i guess it'll sort it self out
is there a 'specialist' rock venue? ...
is there a 'specialist' rock venue? if there was a place that garunteed a great fucking gig, then surely that alone would attract people?
bodega always rocks!!! simple as that...
bodega always rocks!!! simple as that
// but it's a lot easier to charge $3 ...
// but it's a lot easier to charge $3 for 4 bands, get curious people off the street
//true.....easier........but is it beneficial for the artists concerned. If there were //alot of foot traffic just "dropping" by then i think this would be an issue. Having //been on the door at a few gigs taking money, i hardley ever notice people just //dropping in who won't pay a decent charge
Okay, what you guys are discussing here is the "Music Industry" at its most basic level. The challange IS getting people through the door, and to do that you have to work out a strategy that works with the style of music you're playing, which dictates the audience you are aiming for. The industry today is so high powered.. it's getting harder for joe bloggs to form a band, go out and play a few gigs and hit it big. Bands have to take more into account simply than just their song writing. Image is a massive factor, it directly relates to hype, marketing and advertising and should also be incorporated into the actual music. You can't expect people to take notice of something that they don't find interesting, poster work is one thing radio is another but just hoping that ppl are gonna come to your gig because the price is low is stupid. It's waranted if you are just starting up, and haven't practised alot together. The best bands have been playing together for years, and work for their crowds. Another way to think about it, live shows are *part* of your advertising/marketing campaign.. you have to have a product that can sell itself on as many different levels as possible. I'm crapping on, I know. I've played some dead gigs before and the price didn't enter into at all, is all I'm trying to say.
[ http://www.thegladeyes.co.nz ]
hmmm slighty off the “definitive answer ...
hmmm slighty off the “definitive answer to the debate of what makes a good show” but heres what I think about gig prices anyway.
$10 for any NZ rock band who’ve built up some sort of following and arent radio superstars. obviously this doesnt mean that all bands who get airplay should charge more than 10 dollars. although it shouldn’t mean they cant, or arent allowed too!
$5-$7 for a band who are putting on there first or first few shows, once a few similar faces start appearing at the gigs then maybe have a think about moving up to $7-$8 or something. i’ve always thought 7 as a number looks nicer than an 8.
these prices relate to local bands playing on their hometurf.
heh i'd rather pay $10 than $7 cos i ...
heh i'd rather pay $10 than $7 cos i can see at a glance if there's enough in the wallet :D
"... is that a $1 or a $2? GAH i'm never getting drunk again!!!!" *giggle*
in my limited experience, people are ...
in my limited experience, people are more willing to spend $5 than $4, or $10 than $7, cause we're so lazy that breaking up a note or counting out coins is too hard. >:( we're a lazy nation
Interesting topic...I'm in the thick ...
Interesting topic...I'm in the thick of organising a gig at The Civic in Chch for Jan 25. 5 wicked bands, from 8pm - 1am, a free beer, surprise MC, and 3 prize giveaways, all for $8 on the door...
oops, forgot to finish the ...
oops, forgot to finish the post...anyway was going to say, all feedback welcome
in response to the above comments about ...
in response to the above comments about a specialist production company.
why not get something together there seems to be a shit load of people in these forums that see it as a good idea. and between you I sure you can fudge togther resource.
there was a company a few years ago splash I think (I wish I could remember their name) the had the right idea they just dipped their hands in the till a little too much ( if I have this point wrong please feel free to set me straight)
they hand bands on their books collectively negotiated a deal with york street to book it out for a weekend and each band hand several hours to record.
The had the right idea just not enough business skill to manage this, it folded and a few of us got burnt.
(If any one knows whether york street still have the tapes let us know)
any way what I am saying is get the people who have the skills together and do it. a collective of artist and related individuals to make it happen. I am sure there are enough people with "real" jobs and resource to make this happen. just look what happened when fur patrol released the star lifter EP it covered it's production costs.
any thoughts?
shit lets start a forum about it
If a collective is started... I will ...
If a collective is started... I will offer up some time and effort to help out, if needed. No skills as such... but enthusiasm counts for something, right?
totally - i'd love to be involved in ...
totally - i'd love to be involved in helping more kick arse bands get their stuff out there
a collective needs to be done right. I ...
a collective needs to be done right. I don't think bands should form a "collective" which may even further establish a clique mentality....but a non prejidous collective formed as more of a "union"
With a nod from alot of bands in one area, lighting companies, radio advertisers, poster printers, poster designers etc, etc can all be contacted to offer special rates to all bands in this group, to be the only company used by all these bands, a collective buying power is mush more then a single band....also to recieve maybe better conditions from particular venues....if the need arises.
no bands would be denied from being included but bands involved would need to perhaps adhere to a few guidelines...ie..their performances must be produced to a minimum acceptable standard and priced at a minimum decent rate....ie $5-2 bands, $7/$8 - 3 bands, $10 -4 Bands...$15 special gigs.
Also perhaps regular "local band nights" should be incouraged which are an open evening for all members of bands to meet up at a venue and meet other bands, cd's from all the bands would be played, and is a good opportunity to open the doors to younger, newer bands.
basically building a community where anyone's input is welcome
Beautiful, Blink. So how about some ...
Beautiful, Blink. So how about some kind of beginning in the new year?... Starting off with one of those open band nights and get everyone in there talking about it. We could find a bar that isn't doing too well, and give it a bit of a boost :)
Someone would need to be nominated as some kind of spiritual leader... to guide and distribute tasks, etc.
do it! it sounds mad...
do it! it sounds mad
When, and where, is the meeting?...
When, and where, is the meeting?
I've done lighting, recording + mixing ...
I've done lighting, recording + mixing and I can sometimes fix things. I'm down for whatever.. this seems like a bit of an old post but it's a good idea for sure.
[ http://mp3.com.au/disasteradio ]