music has exsisted before record companies
and major labels, and "fans" and groupies and leather jackets and rock t-shirts,
but most importantly it was here before money.........
i just wanna state that thru personal experience i have found,
that no band should be trying to "make it"
in an industry that is based on profit margins,
it defys the whole grounding for creation of music
and corrupts other wise honest intentions
of course bands need money to exsist (petrol is our biggest fucking enemy)
but we dont need to get into bed and open our arse holes to big fat cats from large companies,
basicly,
if your not being honest about your-self and the music you create,
then you will make shit music,
and deserve the fruits of your labour
you've already made it as soon as you decided to create music the rest is so you can keep createing for as long as possible,
being a rockstar is fine, if your not into anything else
and the bets are open
till then
i remain
asleep at the computer
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Ok. I agree in some way my little ...
Ok. I agree in some way my little friend. But i think you are denying the fact you really are very insecure about the fact no record label would ever pay you any attention. So if you preach it makes you look like you dont care.
I cant stand people who plan to " make it". But i also cant stand morons like yourself.
I bet if i just sat you down i could pick your anti establishment arguement to pieces in a second. I honestly think you have no clue. I am not a very intelligent man. But i still think i could have you eating out of my hand in a matter of seconds.
I too dislike everything to do with Majors and money in music. I mean how many arguements i have had with blink over his ray columbusnesss is just stupid. But brother you have said NOTHING about it at all youve just preached utter crap with no facts to back it up.
Come back tomorrow with at least something which has some substance to back it up.
till then fuck off back to that flat mass you live in.
// ray columbusnesss ha,ha you know ...
// ray columbusnesss
ha,ha you know i just enjoy stirring and making you angry.. you are so easy to piss off!
maybe ocphuman speaks in riddles, becuase he is confused himself where he stands on this matter. One thing about andrew (andoru) that i think we all appreciate is we know exactly where you fucking stand on any issue....even if I/anyone disagrees with you.
i enjoy ocphuman's stoner rambles.
andoru....we have a name for guys like ...
andoru....we have a name for guys like you where i come from....
the word i would use, in the ...
the word i would use, in the positive non-pedantic sense, is pragmatic.
thought i'd better explain myself a ...
thought i'd better explain myself a bit - ocphuman is an idealist. so is andoru to some extent. i suppose ocphuman is at times pragmatic, but andoru is more so (please excuse me for making aspersions on your internet characters).
everyone is a mix of both. but these two ways of viewing the world are at opposite ends of a wonderfully diverse spectrum. neither view is right, but both have their points.
to the pragmatics, the idealists will often seem annoying (precious, disingenious), and vice versa.
pragmatic? This is music. It's only ...
pragmatic? This is music. It's only opinion.
[ external link ]
nah, i'm talking about the two ...
nah, i'm talking about the two extremes of subjectivity, which is the way that many philosophies account for how we view the world/form opinions and regard other people's/debate music/debate everything. so in that sense, and with reference to your internet dictionary, i'm using the "pragmatism" sense.
using Oxford - "treating facts of history with reference to their practical lessons; dealing with matters according to their practical significance or immediate importance"; "doctrine that evalutes any assertion solely by its practical consequences and its bearings on human interests". so in other words, the opposite to idealism.
and a nice example of it in action - //you have said NOTHING about it at all youve just preached utter crap with no facts to back it up
but, yeah, this is about music, and i'm being all abstract here. but it is also about how people view each other's opinions, and where they're coming from and how they view the world.
no..the word was cunt....
no..the word was cunt.
peace bro...
peace bro
I am an idealist and i bet i will still ...
I am an idealist and i bet i will still be when ocphuman is working in a bank.
Everyone go and buy some fugazi and ...
Everyone go and buy some fugazi and listen.......... i know it is not new zealand music but it says it right.
I doubt that anyone will ever see the ...
I doubt that anyone will ever see the day ocphuman goes to work in a bank.
dear readers, for the record i am not ...
dear readers,
for the record
i am not and never will be a idealist nor a moron or bank clerk
i am a human whose craft is music
andoru, if you're looking for FACTS i suggest you put your reactionary responses to bed and understand there is no substitute for experience
(whoa thats arrogant and preachy)
there are three things you can be right now
blissfully ignorant
conscious yet apathectic
or conscious and active
to return to my original point (which is not an argument)
industrialisation of music stunts freedom of expression
in an image soaked world we would all do well to remember the words..
"to reveal art and concel the artist is arts aim"
buy my music you zombies
or not,
have a good sleep
love ocp please
there is an "a" in conceal...
there is an "a" in conceal
//"to reveal art and concel the artist ...
//"to reveal art and concel the artist is arts aim"
The art *is* the artist. That's why we hate bands that don't write their own songs.
so your basically saying, if your good ...
so your basically saying, if your good at what you do and society recognises that with a "reward" (money, fame....maybe even just acknowledgement etc) that your a greedy prick who doesnt understand the "creative" side to art, and is only in it for the money? and that if you are recognised, that you can't be humbly proud of your abilities and accomplishments or you shall be labelled a shallow, arrogant asswipe?.........
.....neat, doesnt that just inspire everyone to make music?
three words : TALL POPPY ...
three words : TALL POPPY SYNDROME.....
its a killer in new zealand......
(damn, i hope i spelt that right)
man i should have just put this all in ...
man i should have just put this all in one post actually......heh
actually i see what you're getting at ocphuman kind of, but isn't it possible to still remain "honest" with your music while aiming big? why sell yourself short? im not saying one should get greedy and "open our arse holes to big fat cats" but why shouldnt we want public recognition and "success" per-say if that means we can share our creations with others so they too may enjoy it?
ah.....ok thats enough from me for one night.....
how about we be all arty but then all ...
how about we be all arty but then all write songs like zed as a side project, cos we all can, and if we cant we just do a crap cover of something - then at the same time as making heaps of money, we can bombard the market place with such utter crap that people start to look elsewhere - and walla! there it is -- we are just around the corner with the art music! bingo - hitting the big time from all angles. thats the story! big labels nightmare - 500 Zeds
good point butterfly i agree you can be ...
good point butterfly i agree you can be exposed and still retain honesty
e.g fugazi tool etc etc
its funny because we'll never really be able to describe what we're getting at here,
because its just that feeling you get when you see shit music and when you see good music,
horse you have unravled my secret plan you bastard hehehehehe
all up i enjoy making music and letting it take me where it wants,
as long as people hear the music before they see my ugly face i can get thru this life feeling a little better that i am helping not hindering the problem,
I can see a parallel between the idea ...
I can see a parallel between the idea of this thread and cartesian mind-body dualsim...
'The Biz' and 'The Art' are both inextricably linked and completely separate, there is no question of that. Taking any one side of this idea and championing it to the exclussion of the other reveals an imbalance that will ultimately undo itself.
This is the real world, neo.
...er, that should be 'exclusion.'...
...er, that should be 'exclusion.'
That's a nice way of looking at it. ...
That's a nice way of looking at it.
LOL, nice. i keep saying this, but ...
LOL, nice.
i keep saying this, but it's all about pleasing yourself. you just gotta please yourself, stuff your audience - they don't exist, they are just an abstract group of interests at best, and the true audience is yourself.
if you're pleasing yourself, then that's all your accountable for. only you can know if it is worthwhile or not - it might seem like crap to other people, and that might be true to everyone on the face of the planet but yourself, but you just gotta keep pleasing yourself because that's the only benchmark. there is no "Good Music". there are just some bunches of people who seem to agree on what is or not.
only one person liked what Vincent Van Gogh was doing when he was alive, and that was his brother Theo. everyone else thought he was cheap and crap. just turns out they were wrong, but Vincent didn't live to see that acclaim. he pleased himself, even with all his self-doubt.
it's a hard thing to do, no-one is really able to do it purely, some examples in history are frightening (hey, Hitler was pleasing himself, but of course he was completely insane), but there's no other criterion.
and if you get paid for it and recognised, well that's great. but it's not really the point of it all. and it's not why there is a music industry - see that last word "industry" - people put food on their tables because others like to hear music, whatever the quality, whatever their tastes. no one has any right to tell others what to not listen to, because it's all opinion.
mind/body dualism + subjective truth vs. that ole chestnut Abstract Truth. A.T. is the perfect circle - we all think we know what it is, we can attempt to draw an approximation of it, but put it under a microscope and there will be flaws. invent a better machine to draw a better circle - it will never be the perfect circle. that has to stay in our heads. and you can't tell someone else that their circle is any worse than yours.
right, back into my padded room now ... baskets to weave etc.
damm like meat loaf said you took ...
damm like meat loaf said
you took the words right outta my mouth, etc etc
TRUTH AT LAST finaly one that i can ...
TRUTH AT LAST
finaly one that i can understand
you are a rare species iluvtheclean
thank you for that,
and it didnt even hurt my ego to see the faults in my personality!,
-to be right you have to know how wrong you are -
//right, back into my padded room now ... baskets to weave etc.
its so funny when you read truth and the person who writes it has to make a joke about how "insane" it sounds,
i feel like my personality is 99% normal the other 1% is completely insane,
just to keep a balance,
been thinking in the head space of comparatives lately
there are alot of things including music to experience with out compareing to anything but your true self,
and it made me feel better to understand that orkid really are there own biggest fan's and thats why im writeing music,
we have an audience of 3,
when ever i get stoned and write on this thing
i realize it should be read as if it were stand up comedy
thats why i play music
im not funny
hahahahahahaha
again thank you clean
you've captured my imagination
if you have any other pearls of ranting wisdom
feel free to express them
you have my eyes and ears
im off to experience life
what ever that means
have a good sleep
ocp
There are some things, as an artist, ...
There are some things, as an artist, that I guess you have to draw an imaginary box around- these may include the things you believe in, your personal goals, the people you love, the ideas you want to express... everything within that imaginary box is invaluable, and intrinsic to who you are. As your art gains favour from influences you have not included in the box, you need to monitor closely the relationship these influences have on the things you believed were important to you once, and make decisions accordingly. Without this process it is difficult to maintain perspective, to know what's right and wrong anymore... balance, daniel san.
I don't think that what you say is ...
I don't think that what you say is limited to art - this is a way to live one's life: as a human being, one needs to draw a line in the sand. On your side of the line are the things that you hold dear - principles, values, loved ones or whatever - to the point that you are not going to sacrifice them. Sure its going to limit your choices - certain jobs/places to live/opportunities may be ruled out - but its a means of giving you ownership of your life.
foetusboymyshkin and iluvclean i ...
foetusboymyshkin and iluvclean
i would like to send you all a 'orkid c.d,
if you would like one that is,
send your adress to orkid_music@hotmail.com
dont worry about postage or anything
i got $150 worth of national postage packs from winz
to send the damm things
till then
i remain
the humbled minstril
do you have to give away your cds for ...
do you have to give away your cds for people to hear them?
yup because they are out of date, they ...
yup because they are out of date,
they have an old drummer
and we dont play half the songs etc etc etc
but its still interesting
and its what we sounded like a year and a half ago,
we're makeing another one,
hopefully this time we can get it out on time and tour the fucker,
oh the lessons we learn,
does this mean you have dozens of ...
does this mean you have dozens of copies sitting under a desk somewhere which are having a contest to see who can collect the most dust until they get taken away and sent to people?
all of this rambling and bad spelling ...
all of this rambling and bad spelling to simply say "if you are making music for the money and the fame, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons".
Hey there Yes and no... there's ...
Hey there
Yes and no... there's nothing wrong with making music to recieve money and fame. In the end, it's only narrow minded to expect the priorities you've defined for yourself to align with the priorities of others. If they do, then great! If not, then things get interesting. A bit of tolerance, I guess- Do you agree?
// there's nothing wrong with making ...
// there's nothing wrong with making music to recieve money and fame
everything is wrong with that. because the music will always suck.
basically youd be stellar$...
basically youd be stellar$
Hey Andoru, don't forget Zed !...
Hey Andoru, don't forget Zed !
u really really don't like zed do u ...
u really really don't like zed do u tclak???? do u????
OK then, what about who cares what your ...
OK then, what about who cares what your reasons are, but if you are making music for the money and fame it will show out in your music, and your music will be crap.
Zed were my heroes until my musical ...
Zed were my heroes until my musical tastes matured and I discovered the soul and intesity oozing from the new Justin Timberlake album.
haw haw haw! soul! intensity! i ...
haw haw haw! soul! intensity!
i think i'd cross the road to yell at Justin Timberlake ... but i dunno ... give him a few more years, a burn out, a reinvention and one day he will become Darth Vader and then his music will RAWK!
bullshit......fuck all this don't make ...
bullshit......fuck all this don't make music to be famous or to make money blah blah blah.......if thats the case anyone who feels like that don't play gigs or release anything ever please....stick to the bedroom four track and gigs in the garage to your mates while you all share a keg.....all this fucking shit about music being shit if you want to be successful....fuck off..........broads broads broads...thats the other eason to do it....money, fame and broads....why else bother
yeeah!! live the dream!!!! ...
yeeah!! live the dream!!!!
:"...stick to the bedroom four track ...
:"...stick to the bedroom four track and gigs in the garage to your mates while you all share a keg"
This is kinda what I meant when I stood up for the idea of being in it for the money... It boils down to definitions of success, and it's obvious in this thread there are many who define musical success as the absence of capitalist values: if all music made for the money sucks, does this mean all music created 'strictly for the love of it' rocks?? I'm sorry, but I think that's a very shallow argument.
How much music have you actually heard that did not involve a lot of money- not a lot really. Although some of it may be the purest, emotion-drenched sound you've ever heard in your life, for the artist who's not interested in money, their sound will never make it past a jam on the acoustic guitar in the bedroom. their personal satisfactin is enough- potential listnership doesn't exist, and is of no consequence to them.
How much music do you hear where lots of money is involved- tons! A lot of it sucks, but it's everywhere you fuckin look, tv, mainstream radio, movie soundtracks... Some of it's good, there's no denying that. The quality of the music and the amount spent on it don't always align, but they do sometimes, and I don't see that as an excuse to get political.
Ah fuck it, go get political. Hippies.