sweet, that was like watching 3 sets of tennis... serve volley passing shot, no wait, he's pulled that one back from no where...ah music tastes eh .. so much a part of our identities. personally the only problem i can see from my warped POV is that the labels don't/can't let us control what we watch/hear/consume/download etc. They are THE power structure that is so wealthy that they can't change direction now - there is too much at stake. Music has problems similar to the reasons oil companies won't allow electric vehicles for a long time yet. It's the time of the indie label because if they don't do it we are fucked - please support any local indie you ever hear of - they deserve your support more than brittany. A good song is always a good song.

Hey, if **you** like it, then its god! who gives a flyin shit what anyone else thinks? People like different things, thats a good thing, if we all liked the same thing it would be a damned sad place. People who like brittney or Ronan or Elvis or Iron Maiden or whatever make this world a better place - an interesting place. We wouldnt be having this argument if it wasnt for them, there wouldnt even be this web site.

thats my 2 cents anyhow, take it or lump it...

it's always interesting when people classify bands as bad musicains based on how difficult their songs are to play...sorry, did i say interesting?
i meant laughable.

yeah well im not saying they are crap....im saying their songs are! my criticism of them was that their fans insist on calling them 'great' musicians when theyve done nothing to deserve that. now thats laughable mate

i'm liking where you're coming from foetusboy.

my mum always told me if you had nothing nice to say...And didn't Andy from Zed win the Shit-Hot Guitarist of the Year Award recently -- he must be reasonably proficient. He certainly rattles of a couple of licks that a "music learner guitarist" like myself would struggle with.I'm a bit confused by this thread: was there a point to it all? Anyone with an opinion on music is a hypocrite? "Hypocrite [n]: a person who pretends to be what they are not." Ah well, mark me down as rampant two-faced liar: "I love indie NZ rock!" So, according to Jimi, I don't love indie NZ rock. My cover is blown...

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re the whole blind spott thing-its fucken wonderful to find ppl who have even heard of them before, let alone like them (nearly as much as i do). can someone send me any info theyve got on them, my emails on my bio. thanx =)

get a life, get a brain and try and work out how to use it man. maybe if you made some decent arguments for or against types of music i would listen.......

look shaz your stupid comments around nz music are starting to really fuck me off. what the hell are u saying?? what you just wrote has NO POINT WHATSOEVER, i was telling that punker guy that him saying 'huh huh punk is cool no-one else can say differently' is exactly what i was trying to point out when i started this thread: that everyone with an opinion is a hypocrite, which is not necessarily a bad thing! if people want to say whether they think a band is good or bad, they should be able to point out strenghts/weaknesses in the chosen band. saying 'my kind of music is best' is fucken stupid. so before you try and get one up over me (or before you go and drool on your britney poster like you said you were going to), why don't you think about what youre saying and make some intelligent points.....if thats not too difficult?????

its not GETTING complex, it started off complex...that was the point! music is always a complex thing, but if no-ones understanding me here....i give up!! lol

no, sorry to disappoint you shaz...that was actually L O L = Laugh Out Loud, a commonly used internet abbreviation. i can forgive you tho because youre new..... that is unless you start talking about something totally different to what i'm saying, which is what youve been doing up until now.

"I think you need a brain jimi", "Jimi, was that an arse signal you were giving everybody else", "Oh, I'm so terribly sorry about that, baby". Shaz are you telling me to get on with the point?? take a look at yourself first buddy. and i spose i'll have to answer all your other pathetic attempts at worthwhile arguments otherwise you'll think you've won. hang on a second, you haven't even made an attempt at sounding intelligent! oh well i don't need to waste my time, YAY! now if you would do me the pleasure of not trying to call me gay and a dyke etc, i will be glad to get on with the subject (as long as some retard doesn't come along saying 'punk is good' or 'you are a dick' as their opening sentence) with anyone who wants to have a semi intelligent conversation about music without britney comments thrown in all over the place. please shaz, fuck off.

well codpiece, i fucken hate all organised religion and whether i'm socially successful or not doesn't really affect what i'm saying. is it too much to ask to have people with limited brainpower like shaz talk about something semi-intelligent? i know forums arent supposed to stay on exactly the same topic they started with, but they should at least be based around the same discussion. the people wanting to change can go off and make their own. for instance if shaz would like to stop posting stupid messages in this thread, he could go off and start his own 'lets dish out meaningless insults' thread. seeing as hes already started one about britney spears, saying how he likes her, on a new zealand music site, i dont hold his music taste in very high regard. and if youd read the thread peoperly codpiece, you would see my definition of hypocrite, which may not be the same as yours. basically all the points you raise have been raised before, and i've replied to them. cya

punk is good

music is like a drug.... and different drugs have different effects. Some music is addictive an some can get boring after a while....
I listen to different types of music when I feel (or want to feel) a certain way.

Punk is good when I feel like listening to punk....

Educate yourself musically and in other stuff, and you'll enjoy the whole thing a lot more. Develop some varied tastes and things will be a lot better for everyone.
Thats what I reckon any way

I guess the only way to appreciate and enjoy the music scene is to listen to a huge variety from punk to classical , pop to vomit metal , dance to line dance ..... Lost my point entirely .. sorry

perimeters ( hands feel like sponges on the keyboard )

no I said huge variety , that doesn't mean everything and yes funk metal/hiphop crossover is part of the scene , just not something I personally gravitate towards . doesn't mean you can't listen to it
suit yourself .

i see where youre coming from..... but as a fan of the genre its hard to explain WHY i like it. (or some of it). i guess its just something you have to feel to explain. like i thought that whether you were a huge fan of pop or death metal you felt the same way, but now i dont think so. cos as you said rap metal is testosterone, which i dont reckon 11 year old girls would have a huge amount of. so the feeling i get from hearing the best of this music is a feeling thats so good for getting me ready to do something i would never dream of doing otherwise..... gets the blood flowing. i dont see whats so wrong with corporatism and 'angry' and 'dissolusioned' are just feelings that can be expressed through music and the most appropriate vehicle for those feelings is loud grunty disgusting music (bar the odd softer song). each to their own.....as long as they have valid reasons, for instance liking a band because they are sexy is not a valid reason. cya

sausage! I think I've found a new best friend - another Nick Drake admirer! Though I don't know about that "smoke a j" thing...

a band selling out has nothing to do with teens liking them, its when they/their record company has changed the they sound/look etc to a way that is more accessable a demographic. you can't tell me that the shihad who wrote "factory" "you again" et al would have thought of making videos with flying walls of marshall stacks (although some would argue its done toungue and cheek, rest assured they are very serious, and it is more an advert for their album than anything artistic)!! popularity doesn't equal sellout in my opinion, changing what you are to sell albums is. i think it's a real shame.

well how do you know if the label has forced them to change???/ ya dont unless youve talked to the band themselves.... as hard as it is to believe, mr hunt, bands do actually progress in both their sound and image over time. so you cant really say for sure that bands change just to suit a demographic (which is, actually, becoming more popular which is what you said you WERENT talking about) ok??/ cya

you're probably right jimi. jon probably woke up one day and said "hey guys, i know, we should wear a shitload of makeup at our next photo session and wear clothes that we normally wouldn't wear!" "yay" said tom, i'm big and tuff so i'm gonna dress up like i'm in limp bizkit, and wear heaps of eye shadow!" " i bags the fur coat" said phil, "i'm just gonna wear the same jacket i always do" said karl. "boring!" the others cried. "also guys, we still haven't managed to crack into the zm network, how about i write some stuff that sounds a bit more like every other american band!" jon suggested. "ok" said the others, "and when you've written an album we can tour it for 2 years, playing the same set and same banter between songs! that way it'll put pressure on us to write a whole bunch of songs for the next album, and we'll have to rush them so they'll probably start to sound alike." "sounds fun!" the others exclaimed......

come on man, i don't if you are old enough to remember shihad circa 93-96 but that was a band who could take the roof off any venue with out the help of big p.a's cheesey light shows and rock moves, and stacks of speakers that aren't even plugged in!

yeah definitely gastro.......first of all mike u retard people no matter who they are wear makeup in proper photo shoots. why wouldnt shihad wanna look professional??? theres no point being a martyr and not getting any recognition while youre alive..... i would rather make some money to have some fun. like it or not cash makes the world go round and bands would rather have money than not. this DOESNT MEAN they are selling out!!!!! fuck no. how the fuck do you know that the speakers arent plugged in??? and oh yeah being able to rock the house without speakers is impressive, but i would rather hear some quality sound from some quality marshall amps. who fucken cares if they have good equipment youre being pathetic.
also, you say that they arent good anymore. hello???? have you BEEN to a concert lately? i have, and there is almost nothing more hardcore than sitting on the foldback speakers during my minds sedate (yes mike, a new song) while jon, dressed only in his undies, screams and falls around the stage, his face digging into the wooden ground as he attempts to sing into the mic hes knocked over. you try and tell me theyre not a committed, fucken awesome band and you will be brain dead. cya

BLOODY WELL SAID JIMI. i totally agree...
and to mike: well gee...lets just take EVERYTHING on appearance and what a person wears. last time i checked, tom did NOT dress like someone from limp bizkit........
you also mentioned that karl anways wears the same jacket.....um.......wouldnt that be a sign that they havent sold out?
half your aguement was about what they wear (in my opinion the guys, spec jon, wear great clothes anyway) ..but why careS? i dont, specially if they still sound great, WHICH THEY DO, and are sill preforming kickass shows, WHICH THEY ARE.
I think its important for them to be recognised for the great band that they are, and seeing they are such great people they deserve money from their hard work. I mean what, do you want Jon eating cat food for your benifit? musicians deserve an earning too, and any artist of any form who is dedicated tot their art deserves that.