Performance VS Music

So here is the question.

When you go to a gig to see a band play, it's reasonable to assume the music will be accomanied by the show the band puts on. Energy, bizaare antics, nudity or whatever. It seems the two (music & how the band interact w each other) are strongly linked.

BUT when watching an electronic act where the artist plays music off a computer I can feel cheated. If I rationalize it I still can't put my finger on exactly why I feel like this. Sometimes it's obvious, Someone pushing play & zip else can leave me cold. I'm new here so I dont know if this thread has been discussed (and I was too lazy to search to see if it was)

How do you feel?

Forums: NZ Music,

the atmosphere created by the light show/smoke machines, people getting into the groove, the sweat, the joy. It is a totally different beast. A good DJ alters the song/the beats/the vibe to match the crowd. DJ Push Play sucks.

Fukk I love going to an electronica gig, its wicked. It is like a whole new atmosphere. what a lot of kids dont understand that yes they do play off a computer, but a whole lot of fukking around with different noises and tunes has been going on. The "DJ's" if you can call them that I dont really respect are the ones up there just spinning the record that someone else has created just for the fukk of it...Thats just really boring. But I lOVE it. Like Shapeshifters last gig in Welli, before heading to Melbs...that was just fukking brilliance on brilliance...fukking the mc'ing and everything. BEST FUKKING GIG. Even though I have thrashed their album so much that it is nearly see through and been to about 4 of their gigs before this one...I still loved it and had a wicked time, either they have a good thing going on...or this is true love.
BUt I think the real talent lies at a hip hop gig to tell you the truth. Only have I realised the detail, the time effort and dosh that goes into this after living with two hip hop DJ's. Its carzy at a hip hop gig, so much fun & hype to stir ones soul.
Really though, I think if you like the music, you take a little time to see whats going on behind the scenes.
That is all.

I certainly agree with both points. I think that the "oasis" approach to a live show had better be backed up by some dam good tunes. I mean, showmanship is half the battle when playing live. But to watch an electronic act judge, premeditate and act on the vibe of any given audience is truly a beautiful thing. There aren't many DJs, that I know, that play off a computer. In fact there are none. Sampling, mixing, turntablism, and mc-ing are just as complicated and praise worthy as any 3 chord wonder that ZM chooses to playlist. I think the "Electronica Vs. Rock n Roll" debate has, for a long time now, reached a stalemate. A mutual respect type of deal even. All is alive and well at Kog, I presume?
xxx lucy

http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=3240 ]

Well I know for a fact that Cuffy & Leon for one, record onto their computer...I have seen it in practise.

I'm not a huge fan of electronica, but I can appreciate that a good live show can be as good as a good rock show.

There's a movie playing at the moment (also doing the rounds in the film festival) called "24 Hour Party People". It's about the Manchester music scene. It's really funny and touching you should see it. It focusses on Joy Division and the Happy Mondays, but there's a really interesting bit at the end where it's noted that suddenly there was a point where people started applauding the DJ. Previously the guy playing the records was just some guy hidden away in a dark booth, but then boom, DJ culture was born.

And it's a similar situation with electronica artists. Yeah, they could be hidden away in a back room and maybe no one would be able to tell the difference between the live performance and a recording. But the fact that such performers get up out on stage and do stuff in front of an audience suggests that as well as giving the audience something, they are getting something back from the audience which they can feed off. So even if the performance isn't as visually as exciting as a rock show, I'm sure there's extra stuff to be experienced than you'd get if you were just listening to a recording.

Personally, I find live electronica performances to be mindnumbingly boring.

http://www.secret-passage.com/ ]

that movie is r16. which is hugely irritating because it was no 1 on my 'to see' list.

if i'm going to pay for a gig, then i want to see some kind of live show... otherwise i may as well stay at home and listen to the cd.

I can understand how tanked up to the eyeballs on drugs, Djs can seem entertaining, but otherwise they bore the fuck out of me. I don't think dance culture was designed to be performance based otherwise djs would have turntables hanging around their necks and be wearing tracksuits (I miss the 80s). A good inbetween act are bands like Shapeshifter and the Blackseeds, still live bands with great on stage prescence, but also great to dance to even if not toasted. Djs need to fuck off and take all their white pant hos with them, or wear their turntables around their necks :)

very cool

i'll have their white pants hoe's mmmmmmmmmmmmwhite pant hoes.

FUCK HARD HOUSE, TRANCE & other such nonsense those fukkers need to rack off. I find that whole scene utterly annoying....glow sticks, their fukking lolli pops, the gimp boys & the non-clothes wearing slap sticks to go with it. That is not what I see as talent...it is mindless, aimless tripe that dikks on E 'rave' about..(excuse the pun).

now there's an open mind....

I know what I like & what I def. dont like! No pretending, or sugar coating....why bother?

Wow, I like a lollipop, e and a strobe light every now and then. Sugar coated or not, rock n roll is Rock-n-Fucking-Roll. Same principles, bunch of people, loudness and letting go of bullshit for a few hours. SHRUG. Who really gives?
xxx Lucy

http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=3240 ]

Your thing is your thing. I just think that it is cheesy. period. I like drum & bass, I like electronica, like pitchblack for example, I like hip hop, I like dub, I like reggae, I like jazz, I like my rock & roll. But that type of music I dont like, so I chose not to associate myself with it. It is not about being open minded pandora. I like to have a good time with out unnecessary fit enhancing lights. And St Lucy thats not just rock n fukking roll, thats a good gig!

She'd be a pretty good DJ who could make playing records or using a computer look so good that you'd spend the whole time watching them rather than dancing or whatever.

Pitchblack, I see your point, like yourself I like most genres of music, depending on my mood :)
I just don't express my feelings toward other styles of music in such a harsh way.

Harsh I am, cant help it. I am straight up. I wouldnt go to a random person who i know liked trance or whatever and say all that, thats just bullshit. I am very passionate about my loves & dislikes. There is kind of no inbetween for me.

i let my 8 y old sister play with my music making software and she was making sounds as good as any dj, because the reality is any fuckn loser can do it and thats why its dying so fast.

MOzart wrote twinkle little star when he was 5. Maybe your sista is a prodigy.BTW DJ's play bac other ppl's music mkay?

OK, have you been to a rave lately? Obviously not because they are all packed!! Even in the coldest months! The website that has been the most popular music site this month is a dance website, with over 6,500 members!!! Doesn't exactly sound like it's dying to me.

disco was also popular.

Ok then. What would be your suggestions to electronic artists/acts to make your night more enjoyable?

//What would be your suggestions to electronic artists/acts to make your night more enjoyable?

as i said abobe "wear their turntables around their necks" and maybe tracksuits. if not wearing their turntables around their necks at least wearing a large timepiece.

sorry to but in
//"wear their turntables around their necks"

one of the DJ's from Jurassic 5 does that - he rips

yeah jurassic 5 are fuckn cool, i wouldn't really cool them DJs though, they are performers. we're talking rank trance, techno, 2step blah, blah, blah djs

its a well known fact the guys in bands get more head than guys not.

i just thought id mention that.

people dont give a fuck about the DJ unless they are wasted. wasted people tend to give a fuck about things that they normally wouldnt.

The whole dance scene relies on drugs, without them it wouldnt survive. people may argue different, but the fact of the matter is - when there are no drugs around the dance scene suffers. Which proves the majority of the people who attend dont really give a fuck about the music or the DJ, they are just there to be stimulated by noise and visuals that will accompany and enhance their buzz. Ok fair enough if thats what you like to do, but dont try to say "its all abouty the music maaaan" fuck off! if its about the music then you will be playing it when you are 50 right? hahahaha!
raving is a phase for teenagers, i would feel old at a rave and im mid 20's i mean really how many 30-40 year old people do you see wearing the tightness and carring the glowsticks.

If I wasn't off my tits on drugs, I would find a rave as boring as arse. And I don't do drugs anymore so I don't go to raves. I much prefer jumping/swaying drunkenly around to some really good music played by a human.

Yeah manamana I agree.

Its pretty hard to make a static ground based inanimate object ROCK (the turntables), that’s why they invented those fucken cool?! portable pianos that Im sure ZZ Top use (fuck they were cool) ahhahaha.
Anyway some people can do it, I mean Elton Johns live shows back in the 70’s actually did rock, that guy used to climb all over that pianola.
Anyway a bit closer to home, Luke (The pianist from Paselode) maybe cant move around too much behind such a big set up, but he defiantly makes those keys look cool, and he interacts with the crowd which is highly important.
Stage persona is such an important thing to me, I love those bands that ‘ham’ it up, the ones that have thought through an idea and are then trying to express that.
People like David Bowie, Marilyn Manson (although he stole the Ziggy idea), Ozzy Osbourne, Kiss are masters at this. This is entertainment, the creation of something bigger then the musician. You aren’t just hearing the music (you can listen to their C.D. at home) you are seeing something completely novel.

When you go to a ‘Rave’ its got a real kinda hollow vibe to it, I mean its kinda like your on your ‘buzz’ (whatever that may be) and your in your ‘zone’……….It’s a real ‘me’ kinda culture, quite self-centred. To me it just seems a little fake, i.e. you go to the ‘dance party’ to complement the drugs your on, not to enjoy the musicianship or showmanship. You could take some acid and get stuck in the Toilets of that $35 gig and still have just as much fun talking to the toilet paper, i.e. your gonna have a great time no matter what you do or see.

In saying this I have seen a few electronic acts which were great showmen/women– Minuit and D.J Spooky were and are amazing. Spooky plays a double bass while hes turn-tableing and the lead singer from Minuit is just plain dynamite.

// “wear their turntables around their necks,” -- fuck even I’d pay $35 to see that.

i like drugs i like bands who use drugs and bands which dont i like rock and roll i like electronica i like bands who stare at their shoes i like bands who jump up on P.A's i like DJs who throw their arms in the air i like djs who dont.

hmm .. I'm playing another gig and for this time around I don't think I'm gonna bring my computer. (other than my C64. . ) - besides probably humming out my mixer to high hell it's gonna make me rely on automation and backing more than I'd like.

the big problem is, for a large proportion of electronic artists (probably speaking non-dnb / house / whatever), the computer is their instrument. One big thing with sequencing is you can do things a person (other than a concert pianist with 8 arms) can't normally do - translating this live can be one helluva thing to undertake. (sorry for being so obvious)

http://mp3.com.au/disasteradio ]