Judging from what alot of people post on this site, a band can either 'keep it real', stay underground and play to a handful of people at their shows and keep their cred, or sell out and become mainstream shite. Your thoughts please.
Judging from what alot of people post on this site, a band can either 'keep it real', stay underground and play to a handful of people at their shows and keep their cred, or sell out and become mainstream shite. Your thoughts please.
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// How does a band achieve success and ...
// How does a band achieve success and stay credible?
...by doing what they want and not letting their creativity be influenced by issues such as record sales. if they manage to stay true to their music and still sell alot of records and have loads of fans, then good for them. if they change their style or things about their music in order to appeal more to the mainstream market, then that is considered 'selling out' (correct me if i'm wrong)
congrats on the tricky question... im sure you'll get alot of different opinions on this one.
Yeah that is a bloody good point that ...
Yeah that is a bloody good point that you have raised. Basically if you're in a band, usually it's because you can play an instrument (well) enjoy doing it more than anything else, and get a total buzz out of playing live. The next step is naturally to want to take it to a higher point. If that it is achieved then all the more reason to party! The buzz of making your own music is always something to be proud of, even if the masses dont like it. But in the case of Pacifier, which is what I assume "Redline" was referring to, there seems to be a lot mixed emotions on their "new" style, and a lot of people really dont seem too pleased with the way they have "moulded" their music around the puddle of mud style of rock coming out of America at the moment. I have heard their new single, and personally I enjoyed it. I dont think that Shihad would release anything that they weren't proud of, and I seriously doubt that they have totally changed their style to suit America. But I can see how they have marketed themselves recently to make it appear that way. I think that they have dedicated their entire lives to their music and have always been loyal to New Zealand and good to their fans. They have well and truly served their time in the New Zealand music scene (and will continue to) so it's about time they got some overseas cred. As long as they continue to enjoy what they do then it isn't selling out. The minute they dont feel good about what they're playing, and start to question the reasons they are doing it, is probably when they have well and truly "sold out".
When I hear about kiwi bands signing big fat record deals overseas, it makes me feel all good inside.
goodbye now
onya quad......
onya quad...
//The minute they dont feel good about ...
//The minute they dont feel good about what they're playing, and start
//to question the reasons they are doing it, is probably when they have
//well and truly "sold out".
I think this hits the nail on the head. It's got nothing to do with how many records a band sells, the demographic of their fans or how many ads feature their music.
I guess for people who believe that any mainstream music is shit then any band who makes it onto mainstream radio or achieves broad success is no longer credible, but to me that attitude is snobbery.
It's funny that you only hear the term "selling out" with regard to musicians. For professional sports people and other branches of the arts, what would be considered "selling out" for a musician is essential to keep doing what they're doing. Where would the NZ Ballet or the All Blacks be without corporate sponsorship?
And finally, Pacifier. If Metal Song from The General Electric is your Dads sturdy and reliable Holden Kingswood, then Comfort Me is the same car but with fat tyres and a decent stereo and a new paint job.
music snobbery, yes! someone has to ...
music snobbery, yes! someone has to write a book or thesis or something.
educate the people!
I blame a lack of TV and books.
Seems there is always mixed feelings in ...
Seems there is always mixed feelings in these cases. You really like a band, think their music is legendary, and want more people to experience the pure pure genius of your discovery. 'Listen to these guys!, aren't they fantastic!?' But not too many people, otherwise it becomes diluted! It's like that perfect coffee shop in that little corner you could chill out in, read and not be bothered. Then it becomes The Coffee Shop and its always busy, you can't get your regular table(shit), and is that a Starbucks going up across the road, nooooooo!
But all in all I believe anyone who put in a lot of sweat and tears to build a band, played every shithole from hell and back, and then gets some recognition of their talent, deserves every bit of it. Music should be shared, isn't that the point? Especially really good music. And just because they are up there on the charts next to (fill in your most despised singer/band) doesn't make them (fill in your most despised singer/band). We need more good bands up there to push (fill in your most despised singer/band) off the charts.
Firstly, success is determined by ...
Firstly, success is determined by perception. If you measure it by comparing to and surpassing, others success will be difficult to obtain and maintain. Inevitably you will be surpassed.
If measured by achievement: creating, or performing music to the best of your abilities; achieveing 'X' number of record sales, or whatever else, and those goals are reached; you could consider yourself successful. Others may not think you are successful as their goals and values are different.
Credibility is determined by the value placed on success. It is someones opinion. If high value is placed on success, then credibility increases. If negative value is placed on success, that person dislikes the achievement. Whether you value another's opinion over your own is an individuals decision (only you can decide).
As for being sucessful and staying credible in the music scene, assuming the opinions' of you 'first' fans are more important than your own; it probably be best to adhere to your original goals while mantaining a strong presence in the media (although this is a type of 'marketing', marketing would not be appropriate as it may create 'negative' credibility). In theory, credibilty amongst the general population should increase, with lesser negative credibilty occuring, than an alternative situation. The Black Seeds are an example of this theory. (Did anyone else spot the NZMusic t - shirt on Squeeze, 2nd/6th June 2002?)
Hi Chris...
Hi Chris
Flip side: Most underrated NZ band ...
Flip side:
Most underrated NZ band that deserved to achieve success and never did? Bonus Mark: Why did it not happen?
Curiousity and I'm just looking to add to my ever growing list of music to look for. Cheers.
Letterbox Lambs. Unwilling to ...
Letterbox Lambs. Unwilling to comprimise for industry needs. Made music they liked.
Weta. They broke up just after ...
Weta. They broke up just after releasing their album which is still very very good.
DSUPER broke up at the album ...
DSUPER
broke up at the album release.
and dust is right on the money with the letterbox lambs call also.
// underrated NZ band that deserved to ...
// underrated NZ band that deserved to achieve success and never did
god...the list is endless, who will be the king of this sadly very long list.
yes, the list would be long and sad ...
yes, the list would be long and sad I'm sure. It does balance, or put into perspective, the crankiness brought about by the belief that someone has 'sold out' though.
The lambs are already the list, now if my recently arrived gf gets a job I can start buying cd's again :)
ya better watch your job if your boss ...
ya better watch your job if your boss finds you've been posting to nzm all day rather than grinding out code :->
its my limited, uncool and nerdish way ...
its my limited, uncool and nerdish way of sticking it to the man! ;).
p.s put up your hands everyone at work.
hand...
hand
surely straitjacket fits should be up ...
surely straitjacket fits should be up there. So nearly made it before it all imploded.
Darcy Clay...
Darcy Clay
Bressa Creeting Cake or the 3Ds, ...
Bressa Creeting Cake or the 3Ds, although the 3DS had some success, they should have been bigger! Just too Indie sounding for the masses me thinks
PRoduCt!!!...
PRoduCt!!!
For me playing live is where its at. ...
For me playing live is where its at. Thats the reason for being a musician. Recording is fun, but its nothing compared to the rush you get being onstage infront of a cool audience. My point is this, if I have to pose on a couch for a publicity photo, get a sponser to pay for gig posters or put make up on and dance around under lights for a music video, to get more people to come to the shows, then I'll do it! I don't enjoy it, but its a nececary evil in this dumbass indistry. Anyway isn't selling you soul to the devil the first rule of Rock'n'Roll!
Peace
// nothing compared to the rush you ...
// nothing compared to the rush you get
// being onstage infront of a cool audience.
aha. the problem being that once you get popular (ie. commercial radio play), every tom'dick'n'harry-91zm/the rock listener starts turning up at your gigs and destroying whatever 'cool' vibe you had going. time to disband...
I think you missunderstood me, I ...
I think you missunderstood me, I didn't mean cool in an "exclusive wanky" kind of way. I ment in a "goes hard, jumps up and down, cheers & yells alot" kind of way. The bigger & Louder the better! hang on a minute, you were taking the piss wern't you. Opps I'm an idiot.
not really taking the piss. just ...
not really taking the piss. just working on slightly different tangents there I think.
What I'm trying to get at is that I think the reason bands start losing their 'cred' when they get popular has a lot to do with their fanbase. When you're supporting a new band, it does feel exclusive (and for want of better word: 'cool'), you feel part of the (probably small) crowd, as you're probably actually enjoying the band for no other reason than you like the music (or are mates with the band members). You're 'in' with something that not many people know about.
As soon as commercial success strikes, the band you were once going to Bodega/Dux/Kings Arms/Arc to see has suddenly jumped into the Town Hall, and there's an extra 1000 people there who don't have the same 'connection' that you do. The "they only like it, 'cos they heard it on the radio" mob.
"Play 'Sophie'!" they'll cry.
"Play 'Fast Times in Tahoe'!"
"Play the one you made a video for!"
...and so on. It detracts from the 'true fan's' enjoyment of the gig, and hence their total appreciation of the band. I suspect a lot of fans turn on the bands they like not so much because the music, but because of the fact they can't stand sharing their beloved band with a bunch of idiots.
From the band's point of view, if playing to a shouty-jumpin'-goin' hard-kinda crowd is your thing, than you're probably not too worried about alienating the 'cool' kids who were into you in the first place. But, having played a couple of big gigs to the latter kind of crowd, I'd have to say I honestly prefer playing to people who dig the music, and appreciate it for reasons beyond the fact they heard it/saw it on the radio/tv. Give me 15 dedicated fans at Bodega over 1000 munters at the Town Hall any day...
Sad old muso that I am...
and the next loop in the down ward ...
and the next loop in the down ward spiral is the fans screaming out Justyn Rodney Murray Dave love me....... instead of //
"Play 'Sophie'!" they'll cry.
"Play 'Fast Times in Tahoe'!"
"Play the one you made a video for!"
and all those people who would have / could have listened to their music and liked it, wont even bother... because they are over played on radio so they must be crap... never taking a moment to concider what other music may be on the album.
and of course the last turn of the ...
and of course the last turn of the spiral as a band is flushed down the great toilet of credibility is having a video played on RTR new releases
on this post?>
mmmmmmmmy gawd comfort me by shihad is ...
mmmmmmmmy gawd comfort me by shihad is terrible. I would even preferr to listen to limp bizkit than that song.
why?
Because limp biskit are a joke already so you can mock. Shihad used to be so good and it is a shame to see such shite played by such a good band.
anyway this is a bit of a silly post. but still. the song is terrible!!!!!!!!!!
It sounds like puddle of mudd meets creed. argh it is terrible.
pacifier most uncool band of the year.
ok. put Comfort Me on, then POM, then ...
ok. put Comfort Me on, then POM, then Creed, then put Comfort Me on again. Not the same is it?
stop this defamation.
I'm wondering if any song they ...
I'm wondering if any song they released would be good enough.
yes, good point. I'm incredibly ...
yes, good point. I'm incredibly frustrated by this bitterness. I'm embarassed in fact.
just read back over the posts for ...
just read back over the posts for GE.... folks are just never happy.... "oh but killjoy was just the best album ever.... blah blah blah"
what ever get over it, things change so do bands
Sorry but that song comfort me is ...
Sorry but that song comfort me is terrible!!!!!!!!
It is my opinion. It is nothing to do with success. the song is terrible.
Hey that song is ok, I don't think it ...
Hey that song is ok, I don't think it sounds anything like Limp Bizkit, POD, Creed or whatever.
Those bands couldn't even write a better song if they tried!!
Hmmmn. I don't like Comfort Me ...
Hmmmn. I don't like Comfort Me (specifically : the production & Tom's singing); but I've heard good things about some of the other new songs.
I think re : Comfort Me's production; the nu-metal comparisons are justified (if being slightly overplayed). & it's not even shiny poppy nu-metal like Linkin Park! shockah!
you just gotta keep playing to PLEASE ...
you just gotta keep playing to PLEASE yourself. it's pretty easy and mighty depressing to tell when a band stops playing to please themselves and what they want to hear to fall in line with some trend/what audience wants/flavour of month.
generally, if the band play what they themselves want to hear, there is an audience for it.
... that's what i reckon anyway ...
Its so typical of kiwis to shoot each ...
Its so typical of kiwis to shoot each other down when you get a little success. Shame on you all!!
comfort me does sound a lot better than ...
comfort me does sound a lot better than some other songs like carriage h "songs"
... in your opinion ......
... in your opinion ...
bro i dont even think they are in the ...
bro
i dont even think they are in the same league!
fuck dunedin princesses
LOL ... still, it's all opinion and ...
LOL ... still, it's all opinion and taste - no one can force me to like anything i don't have the aural genes for liking. subjective claims can only be subjective, not even the test of time can prove something more worthy than something else.
i aint no princess, you kneejerk reactionary ;)
I think there's no formula... But ...
I think there's no formula... But most of the american bands are the one that "sell out".
Check out The Beatles.
They started as a ROCK-POP band, people love them, but they evolved, to a better level.
That's why the Beatles are THE BEATLES.