Having seen the terrible debates raging over who copied who recently, I was dreading bringing this up, but for the sake of process (cos thats what its all about - for me anyways) I'd like to reassure myself and others that IT"S ALL OK!
For a starter here is one of the points from Bruce Mau's (VERY VERY GOOD) An Incomplete Manifesto For Growth:
35. IMITATE. Don't be shy about it. Try to get as close as you can. You'll never get all the way, and the seperation might be truly remarkable...
Surely music is part of a collective consciuosness that started with sticks on rocks around the fire etc. Aren't we all just evolving the soundtrack of our lives bit by bit?
Thoughts anyone?
p.s.We used to have all 43 points on our website in a Flash movie thing when Bruce wasn't online yet - i must dig it up cos it was one of the best things we did. Meanwhile check the link below to go straight to Bruce Mau Design/manifesto - he rules.


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[ http://www.brucemaudesign.com/manifesto/ ]
yeap, have to agree there. Some of ...
yeap, have to agree there. Some of that stuff I've been realising over the past year or so.
Reminds me of a paper I read in Media ...
Reminds me of a paper I read in Media 101.
well a lot of the bands with buzz ...
well a lot of the bands with buzz around them lately, ie. The Strokes and The White Stripes aren't exactly original but it is still damn fine music.
Most similarities in music I think are coincidences or tunes half remembered. I mean out of all the music people hear someone is bound to come up with a tune that they do think is their's but really they are remembering it, even then chances are it will have a different take to it anyway. God knows I worry everytime I write something and think hey that is cool, hmm, must be someone else's that I am remembering.
...Eventually you just have to say ...
...Eventually you just have to say "fuck it" and keep it otherwise you'd never get anything done.
It really pisses me off how some people ...
It really pisses me off how some people diss the Strokes as a bunch of copycat rich-kid models. A lot of musicians have come from middle-class backgrounds (John Lennon, for example), and so what if they aren't original. Everyone's had their influences - the Beatles had Chuck Berry, Bob Dylan had Woodie Guthrie, Eric Clapton had countless blues heroes, and the Strokes have the Velvet Underground and Stooges. The point is that they are punk revivalists who play great music - quite refreshing in this day and age of Limp Bizkit, Britney Spears and Californian bubblegum "punk". "This Is It" was one of my favourite albums of the previous year. I haven't heard the White Stripes yet. Are they worth checking out?
DEFINITELY worth checking out soldier ...
DEFINITELY worth checking out soldier ...'when you're in a little room / working on something good / it might be so good / you gonna need a bigger room ...etc' is a mantra on originality, and what inspires - all in one 50 second burst of howling voice and drums ....
yeah White Stripes are worth it, ...
yeah White Stripes are worth it, "little room" is a very cool 30 seconds. I accidently bought "De Stilj" and then got "White Blood Cells", both are great. Mix of blues, rock and punk.
hmmm The Strokes: People have bagged ...
hmmm The Strokes:
People have bagged me for being a staunch fan of this album. First, it's not a "classic" but I REALLY enjoyed it for about listens 3-12. That's rare for me these days.
I heard it for a few weeks before the hype hit - a friend bought it for us to listen on holiday for a couple of weeks before Sept 11 unfolded. It was a breath of fresh air for us rock/indie fans. Then the hype hit and all the "they are just Velvet Underground or Television" bollix which got as loud as the hype was. Now I believe the hype is gone and there is a backlash aggainst the revivalist theories - "You people can keep whining about how the Strokes sound like Television (they don't)" JASON COHEN and MICHAEL KRUGMAN
The White Stripes - just buy them all. Very worthwhile. Others in this vein Spoon, The Hives, BRMC, Les Savy Fav, I Am Kloot, tell the elitist muso's to get fucked and make better music for you to enjoy :)
Way out on little limb: I reckon this will be valuable time for the 'right' rock sound to come back and evolve again. The Strokes lucked out but luck is what you make of opportunity - they've opened a door for someone to walk through (like Mudhoney for Nirvana). I think Shihad will be involved in the more metal end of this doorway - the timing is extremely exciting for them.
And on another note: (Marty will hate me for saying this) but buy the goddam D-Super album - it's fuckin brrilliant in places.
// Others in this vein Spoon, The ...
// Others in this vein Spoon, The Hives, BRMC, Les Savy Fav, I Am Kloot, tell the elitist muso's to get fucked and make better music for you to enjoy :)
The Dismemberment Plan.
I agree, dust. It's not one of the ...
I agree, dust. It's not one of the greatest albums of all time but it is one helluva enjoyable listen. I personally think that it is one of the best indie debuts since Oasis's "Definitely Maybe". I've also been bagged for liking the album. The first I heard of it was when I was reading a copy of NME - they were going bonkers over the Strokes.
actually there are a few there I've ...
actually there are a few there I've been meaning to check out, curse my lack of funds
and dislike of downloading full albums.
// and dislike of downloading full ...
// and dislike of downloading full albums.
which I must admit is mainly laziness than moral highground but there is some dirt.
some of the best music i've written / ...
some of the best music i've written / been involved with has started as a 'how-the-hell-did-they-do-that?' exercise - you explore and understand that stuff you like/admire, and then, sooner or later, the lights pours out of you and somehow your own twisted slant on the whole thing becomes something beautifully unique.
We are but our influences, but always our own representation of the many tangled voices that speak within us ....
two thoughts came to mind ones, the ...
two thoughts came to mind
ones, the old jip about monkeys and key boards eventualy type the complete works of shakespare
and no i am not calling music writters monkeys, it translates into when there is only so many notes eventually all cominations must be .... ya know.... repeated
the second was a sf story I read about a musical / mathmatical genius going hunting for the lost cord, only to find on dicovering it, it was the true name of god, a mythological discription of the earths harmonic. so if it was played the world would resonate and break apart and come to an end.
Originality in music? Hmmmm I ...
Originality in music? Hmmmm
I personally believe that this is a basic postmodern argument, which revolves solely around the fact that there are no new ideas, only old ideas made better.
Heres an example:
The strokes album "is this it" could never have been realised without the former knowledge/love of early glam/punk/rock i.e. Iggy Pop/Stooges, Lou Reed, Television, NY Dolls, Bowie blah de blah blah.
Anyway these "influences" also could never have made there contributions to contemporary culture without the former work of early "punk" (punk: as in "attitude") bands/people like MC5 and John Sinclair who were major producers of "punk" "new wave" and "metal" way back in the 60’s way before these words were even assigned to help classify music.
Now I must continue on to the fact that even MC5 weren’t that original in that they were only building on and making "heavy" (with Hendrix) the blues which bands like The Who, Yardbirds, The Kinks and The Stones sold back to America in the early 60’s.
So now it comes back to the blues, a very simple and expressive arrangement which evolved from enslaved black America and its "contemporising" of traditional African music,
Oh yes "It started in Africa".
So in short yes The Strokes have produced a highly referenced album, their contribution is in no way innovative, just a collection of catchy tunes packaged with some good lookin New York boys and a few names dropped by just the right people.
Its sad and a bit pessimistic but there are no really new ideas. Try and think of something amazingly new and "fresh" and sure enough its been done/said before.
The fret board is finite.
[ http://www.twolaneblacktop.musicpage.com ]
You aren't suggesting the Strokes are ...
You aren't suggesting the Strokes are "packaged"?
I'm interested...what do you mean by ...
I'm interested...what do you mean by "packaged"?
I mean "packaged" for mass-consumption....
I mean "packaged" for mass-consumption.
can you elaborate? I only say this ...
can you elaborate? I only say this because by your definition the Strokes have definitely been packaged and the masses are consuming.
in fact, let's take it to another ...
in fact, let's take it to another forum. I'll start it up now...
[ http://www.nzmusic.com/topic.cfm?i=1796 ]
Awsome question! I would challenge ...
Awsome question! I would challenge anyone to NOT find incredible amounts of influence durring the major musical eras and cross pollination, otherwise known as IMITATION. The illusion that we
are separate and distinct has always been torn assunder by the
miracle of musical dialog. A good comparison would be inventions
such as the airplane or the lightbulb. In two very different parts of
the world there was concurrent development, so similar as to
make obvious the Truth that ideas pass THROUGH us not FROM us...
Its always been about who has transmitted the idea first, as if
pulled from the wind. Interestingly the blues from the lower
delta were so designed that a transparency to identity was
established. Many of the tunes were just part of everyone's set!
Similar with classical, as the innovations of one led to some
from another who built upon the foundation layed by the former.
Gee, doesn't nature work that way too?
:)