almost anti vibe towards NZ music going on in a couple of threads .. okay maybe anti is the wrong word, but I seem to see a few people taking a look outside of the confines of what is NZ music and asking "has it had it's day" or more importantly " where do we go from here" The point Heather made in her Herbie Hancock post about the calibre of musicanship within NZ for instance. I can see where she's coming from. It's kind of hard for me to put into words at the moment as I don't want to come across as some wanker sitting over seas being a non muso and casting stones ( which maybe the case, but hey ho :-) ) However that said, I'll have a go, over the years I've been coming onto this board, meeting Kiwi's from the NZ music scene who have come over to London and one instance of my own. I think I began forming an opinion a good few years back. I won't go into to much detail but in a nut shell I had the green light to look into getting a Kiwi to come over and work for a year at the studio I work for here in London, okay it was in the technical department, but it was the opportunity for someone from NZ to gain experience in a large London recording facility and to gain experience outside of the NZ sphere. I sent out e-mails, phoned Jeremy at York street etc and waited .. the only person who was enthused was Jeremy, did I hear anything back from anyone No, not one iota, I sent and phoned and left messages for people to phone, but not one replied, I put it down to the fact that NZ was happy with what it had and didn't need outside interference. Not long after that I was talking to an NZ engineer about what had happened. He gave me an example of an audio school back in NZ. His comment was that it was run pimarily by ex students who due to a lack of studios in NZ have stayed on as teachers, they have all the theory but very little hand's on studio experience. weather that's the case or not I don't know, but it struck a cord, that may well be the state of NZ music, no outside advice interference needed we're fine where we are ta. So I backed off. The only problem with the above is it's ever decreasing circles of experience, eventually things come to and end, remain the same / stagnate, with NZ being so small on the international scale of things and so far away from any hugely populated main lands, the above seems to be the case .. aussie 25 million ?? there's 12 million or more in greater London alone with hundreds of nationalities, 60 million in England and quiet a few million more just 22 miles away on mainland europe. With Millions of influences and talent just a stones throw away and around every corner it pushes musicans harder to succeed and remain at the top of their game. If they're successfull they still have to push the boundries to remain there. This is going on quiet abit and I don't really know if I've put things in such a way as it makes good reading or indeed any scense. There's more I want to say, but will leave things here for the time being.
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dude, i love the way you
dude, i love the way you manage to push what could be quiet inflammatory viewpoints in such an even handed and diplomatic fashion.
respect.
a good read.
:-) ta rope, as you picked
:-) ta rope, as you picked up I really don't want to be inflammatory, but as you know on this board it's hard not to upset someone at sometime or another, what I wrote above is just my opinion, it means nothing really, but I do get frustrated sometimes, I think NZ music could be so much more, but they limit themselves in someways I feel by being so darn independent. If you don't get that interplay from other musicans / engineers / producers with other worldly experiences you end up with a dry pool. That's not to say NZ is void of inspiration or worldly people, but i think now at this point if people are begining to get bored with NZ music the way it's going then if the government / record industry want things to keep on the move they should look at getting overseas people over with a different outlook as such to help push it along. I know for a FACT many people would jump at a chance to work / play in NZ for a month or so.
Fuck. Had I known, I would
Fuck. Had I known, I would have been over in a flash. Stink.
You do speak the truth, I think a major problem with NZers is that we get discouraged easily, all it takes is a bit of flack and it's all over.
How many awesome bands have you seen, who are genuinely talented and interesting, and should by all means "get somewhere", disband under disillusionment and lack of support.
I know my personal problem is laziness, I spend to much time watching dvd's. lame.
P.S. Do you know where the enter key is ;)
// How many awesome bands
// How many awesome bands have you seen, who are genuinely talented and interesting, and should by all means "get somewhere", disband under disillusionment and lack of support.
ok, but how many of those bands are so bloody unreliable/drug fucked/drunk/UNRELIABLE that no one in their right mind would spend time and money trying to promote and support them? i know of a few.
dear stalkers: no, im not referring to you!
It's certainly an
It's certainly an interesting question - and I think a lot of people are currently revaluating the "NZ Music" brand which has developed.
Personally I think the fierce indepdence is a good thing - but I am somewhat biased in that direction myself.
One of the questions which has been floating around my mind for the last couple of months is, "is there still an advantage for bands to be identified as being NZ music or is it limiting their potential in overseas and local markets". To me, the NZ Music brand seems to have passed it's peak point of a couple of years ago and is at the risk of diminishing returns - much the same way as fashions fade.
Do bands see it as advantageous to push the "NZ Muisc" angle or is it better to simply playdown the fact that we're from a very protected (because the government grants do equate to some level of protectionism) and musically segregated area of the world?
Has the support which artists received via government funding steered them away from expanding into the international market because they feel they can comfortably manage here? Are we making it too comfortable for NZ artists and as such removing their incentive to look off shore?
Personally I would have jumped at the chance to work in London - but I'm strictly a bedroom engineer/producer (so far). I've thought about doing an audio engineering course, but all the engineers I've spoken too have been somewhat scathing about the level of expertise which is offered at a lot of these courses - I recognise that these are just their opinions but they are people who I respect for their opinions and their technical skills.
Very interesting all round...
"Do bands see it as
"Do bands see it as advantageous to push the "NZ Muisc" angle or is it better to simply playdown the fact"
Interesting, I don't see that as a disadvantage, but again I don't see what it gains you in the long run, the fact your from NZ isn't really what the music's about, it's about the music you play surely. I think the only small country I know that can get away singing in English and having a sound of their own is the Irish, and that's basically cause of the American connection. Just got to sign off for a bit, got work to do and our receptionist needs her computer back, and I gotta log onto mine ..back late.
I think the whole scene is a
I think the whole scene is a bit stale at the moment. It feels like we're in a transitional phase. Most bands around are either trendy and dull or worthy and dull. Not all of course, I don't doubt there are some exciting acts I haven't seen. It doesn't feel like there's anything storming in from the fringes though.
I would disagree that this has much to do with a lack of overseas interaction. Every muso I know would love the chance to have a crack at London. It's just so damn expensive, and also means packing in your job (if you have one... if you don't, it's unlikely you can save enough money to go overseas anyway). I think it's more of a natural trough, and in time a couple of amazing bands that can't be ignored will revitalise things again.
It all seems very unfair when I hear a shitty NME-hyped band on the radio, or in the shops, or hear they've broken into the American market and I know I have friends with infinitely more musical imagination and talent who struggle to find gigs that'll pay enough to cover petrol money. It's kinda natural though. There just aren't enough people here. Even if you live in Auckland or Wellington, you have only a handful of possible venues. A nationwide tour is probably 6 shows, each to a couple hundred people if you're lucky. To actually make a living from music and music alone, you have to be getting corporate bucks from somewhere- TV ads for instance- and even then it's less than your middle-class average.
So I'd say that the overseas experience is musically valuable to bands mostly in that, if they stay over there, it can keep them together longer than they might back here. If a band does a tour of the States, gigging every night for two months, that will have a huge effect on their performance skills, and it's something that simply can't be done here.
Well to be honest I don't
Well to be honest I don't live in NZ anymore and I don't really know much about the " VIBE " of the NZ music scene as it is, but from what I can see yes it seems to be the same artists / bands doing most of the work, or getting most of the work. That's not really a bad thing as some of the NZ bands / artists I've seen over here in London are great. Goldenhorse, Pluto, The Brunettes, Bic Runga these are great musicans / bands and in my books can and should compete on an international stage. The problem is they're 12000 miles away from England and a good few thousand miles away from everywhere else and they have just over 4 million people to entertain. it's a small market force to try and make a living out of by music alone. I'm sure everyone knows that in order to "make" it anywhere or make a living from your music you have to invest not only financially but also your time and a hell alot of effort into pursuing your goal, that's easier if it's your home country in many ways, even if it is small. So alot of them do the quick trip to London do a few gigs and have to head home, somewhat stranded in NZ through lack of an overseas support system as such, hence they're stuck playing the music they love and no way go forward really. Frustrating I'm sure. Maybe if NZ on air would fund a halfway musicans house here in London, an NZ band could plan a european tour, get funding or rise the finance needed and live in London for 6 - 8 months while they get established .. maybe not a good idea, they'll stay and NZ won't make $$$ out of the band ... :-) !!
That would probably be a
That would probably be a very cost-effective way of giving bands a crack at Europe... pay rent on a big old flat somewhere in the suburbs of London. Stuff musicians in, four to a room. Doesn't have to be flash, most are used to living in shitty flats anyway. Said musos can live on rice and onions for a few months while doing the London toilet circuit, see if they can break through.
// I think the whole scene
// I think the whole scene is a bit stale at the moment. It feels like we're in a transitional phase. Most bands around are either trendy and dull or worthy and dull.
so true. i went to a gig last night where the bands went from bland to blander and back to bland again. it wasn't even that they were bad, they were just all pretty average! they had a big crowd though and everyone seemed to love them, so maybe i'm just getting old and jaded and i don't get it?
i got home at about 2am and got up to go to work at 6:30am. now i'm listening to the breeze (not by choice) and they keep playing the same shit over and over again, and i'm tireeed. gig so not worth it! fuck you, robbie rakete!!
:-) old and jaded ... that
:-) old and jaded ... that happened to me a few years back, I was going to alot of gigs .. mostly the accoustic nights as my mate was running one in Camden ( I did the door for him a few times ) and other mates were giging around, after a few years of this going to gigs, things begain to take on a ground hog type scenario, That said tho I did hear some great music, and some that really stood out, no idea what became of some of the better ones thou, but most was just plain, well good but not outstanding ... then there were the ones you just wanted to shoot !.
imagine if you will the nz
imagine if you will the nz music industry as a wild bushy field
(an analogy sure not to last longer than a few lines).
it came to be, fairly naturally, relatively speaking.
at least,
that was how the farmer found it
so started, planting these GM crops.
' GM ', because when you take the naturally occurring music/ians;
and _______(verb) it in the blender with 5000 dollars and the promise of fame
then you're really creating a new breed of seed
all sorts of undertalented shite will sift out of the metalwork
but like fuck
having to compete with a whole lot of unimagineative watered down government molested crap, blaring over the airwaves.
then we also throw into the mix
the fact that about 50% OF THE MUSIC IS THE LYRICS
and there is no real tradition of the governmnet sponsoring any political music
which kind of goes against the fabric of the country
as a political nation
as represented prior to nzonair
where's our generation's fred dagg?
our shona laing?
our billie T James?
where's our mcphail and gatsby rampantly taking the piss out of helen clarks teeth?
or have they simply been refused funding, or couldn't be fucked competing with a ton of drivel?
we can see a history of political exchange in many areas of the nz art scene
but so so minimaly in other cultural spheres these days at any decent level of exposure
because they castrated the music and tv scene.
and it's not about blame.
it's about bloody stopping and letting the weeds grow back
thoughts on why i hate the new zealand music scene being portrayed in the media 2007.
but on a brighter note
sweden
just like that
M&G copped Muldoon issues
M&G copped Muldoon issues too and they were State funded by any criteria.
Political expression after Wage, not before, its always the way.
this my bitch with R.I.U. lament the lack of NZ Political expression in Music , yet actually never ever put Political Bands in the Magazine.Just the same scholck required to serve the needs of their Advertisers. Just like Radio. Just like T.V.
where's Jody, he could comment well on this I reckon.It's like beating your head against a wall, those informing Political discourse are naturally those least likely to attract the sponsorship of the people who assign "pop star".Separate the two, and always do it.There is no flukes, no overnight success, just those who some others can Profit from.
Did Government funding kill Political risk taking? Maybe Comrade, but never more than how the Masters of Commerce ensure our Market Worship.It's on the Radio now, it's on the T.V. now.
NZ as Political nation I won't start on. Apolitical/Apathetic maybe.
true
true
On the lyrics front... Can
On the lyrics front...
Can anyone name (without internetting) the last 3 NZ Poet Laureates?
There's only ever been 5 (&
There's only ever been 5 (& I only recognised three of the names).
Cheat! I know Jenny (kind
Cheat!
I know Jenny (kind of)
Hey, I'm not cheating! The
Hey, I'm not cheating! The question was:
Can anyone name (without internetting) the last 3 NZ Poet Laureates?
and my answer just happened to be "no, but I'm curious now". Hence why I didn't post the names, in case someone else could answer correctly.
So there. :P
:P
:P
Christianity Rope Chris Tate
Christianity
Rope
Chris Tate
LLoyd Geering Brian
LLoyd Geering
Brian Tamaki
that old woman the kids are scared of.
Merv Wellington Prince Tui
Merv Wellington
Prince Tui Teka
Ali Williams