there's no irony u inadequate boy
ur mind is a simple machine rdor
the maori are quicker and better at embracing foreign technologies than whites
we knew this even before we engulfed and supressed their morality system.
its this system which i'm referring to.
your pig headed response is reflective of the whites' inability to cooperate in a reasonable and dignified manner

i'll ask again,
any suggestions on improving nz.?

Class has everything to do with it.

I object to the term "White".
"Rich" is far more accurate.

How to improve NZ?

Nationalise the Banks, Petrol Companies, formal Trade agreement with Cuba, Venuzuala, Uruguay, Chile, Bolivia.
Compulsory Unionism.
Ban all private vehacles from any CBD
Incoropate Free BMX Policy regardless of UN pheaseability mandate
Burn down any school that won't incorporate I.D. in creation mythos.
Public Flogging for Lesley McTurk
Reintroduce Death Penalty for Treason
Charge all members of Labour Govt 1984-90 and National Govt 1990-99 with said charge.
Higher Education as right not profit making mechanisim
Health System as cleanser of Public not profit making mechanisim
Replace whats left of "Justice" System with Marae based Courts
Immigration Policy completly reworked to incoroporate Treaty of Waitangi as original document and this scandoulus "have money, can stay" criteria be scrapped.
Only Husband or Wife can work, other looks after Kids
All Schools Co-ed
Fairfax and Murdoch exiled, Editors of Red Flag to organize our TV, Print, and Radio News.
Public Holidays to mark Paul Feyearbend, Miles Davis and Noam Chomsky and Dorothy Day.
Bass Guitar to be recognized as NZ National Instrument
No Manchester United fans shall live in our society
Prince Rogers Nelson to offered residencey in Doug Myers old house providing he plays the Dux de lux with Equus in support, each MONTH MF
Eric Watson disowns Warriors, controling intrest to AuckR.L.
and Bluey to coach eh!!!
Black Cocks to be awarded theme song "LenaO's mouthful"
7Day trading strangled, Sunday is the day of rest , you know.
All Music lessons to include Therory.
All round Spelling must improve
National Stubbies Day, or at least Tree TShirt Bonanza
On the Mat to recieve 75% of NZ on Air Budget
Jody Lloyd to be public arbitor of taste, in conjunction with John Rowles, David Clark , Blink, Phil Bowering and Aly Cook.
Any Man failing to remember Wedding Anniversey to face stiff punishment
PoiE to be National Anthem
Goodbye to GG and Queenie
All Lottoo proceeds to Public Transport, Wind Power and replacing Dairy Farms with Fruit trees.
or Walnuts, wood is good for guitars a bit later on.
It'll be an organic Marxist Collective with strong Catholic overtures, it'll all be alright cos we love each other lots, really we do.
I want to say what happens without having to do any of it
I accept no responsibility
I will let those things which I accuse now happen again
I will burn

White genes

um, yes but theyre be no change without white particapation
Hence, a class differentiation is appropriate.
Assuming we want a peaceful change of order of course...

//it's retarded in this day and age to assume industrialization and scientific advancement are one and the same
//

um yes one requires the other. You need idustry to mass produce the moulded plastic (made from oil) on your keyboard, screen, casing, you need industry to smelt the copper for the circuit boards. You need high tech mahcinery to burn the silicon, which in turn needs to be mas produced aswell. You need technicicians and engineers to design it all, production lines to put it all togethor. Same with your car (or the bus you catch) , same with any elctronic goods. I am a machine, you are a moron.

As for steamrolling Maori culture, well no excuses for that, but the if us awful white devils didn't colonise, then living standards in this place we now call New Zealand might be more akin to those in Indonesia or some other semi developed third world nation.

dark nick, obviously ur far more reasonable
so please excuse the tone i just used with rdor

i can agree we are not any worse than a whole heap of other countries.
but i don't think that's anything to be proud of
"new zealand-not any worse than a whole heap of other countries"

// Before white people came to NZ, Maori were already killing, fighting and enslaving each other. In the scheme of things they ended up being marginalised by a much bigger and powerful tribe that happend to be white.

now this is true, but things were certainly no less civilised than they are now;

Naenae teen shot in drive-by
11 April 2006
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3634105a11,00.html

basically the family unit and community/tribal group has begun to fall apart
the maori didn't have CYFS because they didn't need it

what i'm saying is the blueprint still exists,
and the spirit of the people that founded the blue print is among us.
how long is it necessary to remain a production line clone?
where's the spirit of innovation in the government?
where's the respect for the land?
the family?

this isn't about guilt
or pointing fingers
it's simply that looking back on white man rules; particularly government and colonisation
it would be fair to assess that some blunders mave occurred
and hypothetical (given the lack of significant variation in anglo-western governance,) ;
that those errors and their ilk are still occurring,

and yet herw we had a civilization
that was more respectful
of things that mattered most
and we/our government could perhaps be a little more open to learning from the better players*

*law of the jam,

Difficult problem with no real solution. Sometimes you have to destroy something completly before people will want to conserve it. I am not quite convinced we need to worry about nature, I think in the end it will balance itself out (probably at our cost). At the moment things are happening so fast that the environment is in constant flux. I don't believe the environment is ever stable, there are times when things are changing very slowly or almost balanced but we have just not reached this yet.

When the ancestors of the aboriginal people of Australia got there there were mass extinctions of giant marcupials and other animals. The environment changed. Eventually things settled down and they learnt to live in harmony with their environment. Similarly when Maori came to NZ their were huge extinctions of species, land burnt off, animals introduced. But the people and the land never reached the point where they were in balance like in Aus as they had not been there long enough. It was further disrupted by the arrival of the old white settlers.

My point is NZ had not been populated for very long. The environment and people are still comming to terms with each other. Before things settle down the environment will be modified. We won't see the end of this in our lifetime. Give it another thousand years or so.

If we don't reach a balance the environment will become toxic to us, we die or are reduced in numbers, balance restored. Perhaps we can do better at avoiding this fate, but then it might just be a kind of natural justice.

//acknowledging that maori spirituality and hence civilization
was far more advanced than ours in terms of it's attitude to respecting the power of the land//

this is bullshit. Maori wiped out the vast majority of new zealands endemic bird species within 200 years of arrival, and burnt down huge areas of forest, especially in the South Island. It wasn't till they literally ran out of readily available food and began to starve did they learn to conserve their resources. Anyway, they were a low population tribal society, romantisise that all you like, but we are not.

//mainly this thread is about your ideas for improving the country,//

-nuclear power stations
-become the 52nd state of the U.S
-a McDonalds in every town
-income tax reduced to 6% for everyone earning over 40,000
-services like health and education opened up to privatisation and competition.
-re-establish ANZUS.
-scrap the Treaty of Waitangi
-create a flexible labour force, abolishing the minimum wage, holiday pay, lunchbreaks. Privatise ACC.
-Abolish GST , except essentials like food and groceries

I think class is improtant. I don't care if the poor get a bad deal as long as it is good for me. They are only scenery anyway...

lets all drive as fast as we like people. Our modern cars will save us from dying in a crash. Also we don't need to worry about people runing over our kids outside the schools becasue everyone are such responsible drivers....

people fly planes spaceships. with care.

people are speeding outside schools,
it's not a speed problem, it's a lack of respect for life and pubic safety
putting a sign or a camera up doesn't solve the problem
people commit crime, all over the country
of a (excue me if this sounds a litte melodramatic) more and more heinous nature,
there's some sick shit going down in new zealand these days
nz legislation is a stiff old juggernaut
you can't build a shed without getting permission, you can't smoke in your own fish and chip shop without getting fined or hit up by APRA for some shitty little sum of money to be squandered on stationary.
leeching,
lawyers, accountants consultants, board members and public servants
who rely on this egislation to get money for nothing
it's an excuive game
i just hope we good progress to a fairer more respectful and transparent way of administering law.
at present
it inhibits the mutually required sense of security required to enable a country to function in accord
see a crime being committed and look to our neighbour, neither sure if it's really a crime.
anymore
what to do?
wait for the police!
that's primitive stuff,
they had smoke signals working more efficienty than that 1000 years ago, wyatt earp kept the law better than that, this is not progress.
basicaly you want (the mass) safe
that shoud be No.1 priority
i think it comes back to the family
and the goverments support for the family

So who teaches RESPECT

Mum and Dad?
but they are not home (thats if they still live together)
they work different shifts
they thought shift work would work
but its as good as torn them apart
and Jr's learning that $ is more than partnership
their less problems alone
so he learns to build
he's good at fences
sturdy, like
hard to break through or even peer over
not that you want too look
so go down the shops
spend on credit
shops open every day
not like CHURCH
who again do we worship
that was last decade...
maybe, defienetly backwards

their was a time when A Man earnt enough for his whanau
but that was backward, like
lots of little old NZ was,
is,
and will be

he belonged to a workplace organization
that watched his back
and taught him too look after others
some even took this lesson home
and made their streets not just habitable
but a place where others
MIGRATE too, even
but this too was backwards
because too many of them don't fit current criteria
$250000 or a flip o' the coin
(probably yours)

and as my BELOVED tells me
when she wants me too sleep even semi peacefully
those days are gone
its backwards
back form whence we came
but where our children will never go
except in those fairytales
for that is what they think you tell them
foal
so sleep
dream backwards
and maybe tomorrow
they will say
Granddad remembers too
and Aunty
and Uncles
so how Father
can we go backwards

Might as well legalise all drugs....