I read a lot of comments about bands like Jakob, Bailter Space and HDU that are variations on the following:
Their music sounds like quintessential New Zealand music.
Their music sounds like New Zealand itself (the geography, the space).
Their music could only come from New Zealand.
I don't understand why. What's the deal?
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looking forward to hearing feedback on ...
looking forward to hearing feedback on this one.
//Their music sounds like quintessential New Zealand music.
hell, no. can think of lots of examples of similar sounding music not at all from NZ or even influenced by NZ bands.
//Their music sounds like New Zealand itself (the geography, the space).
yeah, i really get this/agree with this. i don't know why though. when those bands who noodle noise play, the same bit of my brain that makes me feel all sublime and awed by the landscape becomes highly charged too. when i'm zipping through central otago/mackenzie basin, i get certain awestruck feelings and the same thing often happens when i listen to noodle noise rock bands/musicians. don't know why but it's a very distinctive set of reactions to a sense of the sublime. Dukes of Leisure, playing at the planetarium - totally spot on - never seen them live, have heard live tracks, sound great, adore astronomy - an equation that adds up on my balance sheet.
//Their music could only come from New Zealand.
dunno about that, see number one above, but when i listen to noise rock noodlers in central otago, and they aren't from NZ, my sublime awe reaction is less. sometimes the images that pop into my head from non-NZ noodlers are more about city-scapes. not black and white though - Meterman, who i adore, really seem to be fascinated by city life scapes and even if i don't hear the lyrics or know the track name, that's what pops into my head.
sometimes the music sounds like a melody wrapped around a natural event - Roy Montgomery's Nor'Wester tune for instance - growing up as a wee kid driven mad by that wind on the Canterbury plains - he captured it spot on for me. the tune sounds exactly like the experience to me.
I agree with all that pretty much - esp ...
I agree with all that pretty much - esp going mad in the Nor' Westers and the Dukes Of Leisure reference. Those fellas need to play out of Wellington soon.
I'll add a bit though - I'm just ...
I'll add a bit though - I'm just listening to the new Mogwai album and drinking vodka....I have to say, it's a great album all. Hello 2006. Yeah, buy it, etc.
Woah, flip back to Flying Nun 1996 and ...
Woah, flip back to Flying Nun 1996 and I'm now playing HDU's first album Sum Of The Few...still great...still drinking vodka...and still did not hear one thing that sounded as original at that at this year's SXSW06...I sincerely hope that HDU are able to repress or reprint that 1st album...I love this country and the music made within it...would like to hear fully-fledged new HDU tracks or even those wonderful tracks that Alister Parker has been promising...anyhoo, back to the venue-bashing and the drinking...
Mogwai are a perfect example of a band ...
Mogwai are a perfect example of a band who in theory should be loaded with all these connotations of open spaces etc... yet are from Glasgow. I think? Not much of an open feeling there, IME.
It rains there pretty much constantly- ...
It rains there pretty much constantly- it's unfairly exposed to the elements in general, I think... and their music does convey a sense of melancholy, like you can feel the clouds slowing down above you with the weight of their rain. I don't know if Glasgow's clouds are any different to anyone elses, but Glaswegians are probably better acquainted with their finer points than most.
Did the grunge movement give people a good visual image of Seattle (having never been there personally)?
//Those fellas need to play out of ...
//Those fellas need to play out of Wellington soon.
Yo... at least 4 of us are here and drunk, and we will play in Auckland as soon as we can, if you'll have us.
We'll play at the stardome, if possible.
dunno bout the noodle rock tag... ...
dunno bout the noodle rock tag... stupid label #24656
but there are a few bands and electronic artists that evoke a sense of the space and majesty of parts of NZ to me - I put it down to the space in the sound, the lack of lyrics (sometimes) and often a sense of imperfection, its not of the music but a feeling that comes from the overall sound(s) created
nothing in modern culture is uniquely of our land, yet there are some that are evocative of our land - and that applies in my mind to some overseas bands as well
as for the useage of these lines/terms, music writers (reviewers/publicity types etc) love that shit, often its just plain lazy writing and sometimes they hit the nail on the head
- its always subjective as it depends on context, Roy Montgomery makes no sense in the context of this thread if one has never been to the South Island for example
Yeah, that was definitely not supposed ...
Yeah, that was definitely not supposed to be a useful description of the sound, I just couldn't fit enough examples in the title of the thread...
Thanks for the responses so far.
// the space in the sound, the lack of ...
// the space in the sound, the lack of lyrics (sometimes) and often a sense of imperfection
ya, ya, that is good. imperfection as in it captures a rendition of a song - something that passes and will never be the same again - damn i love stuff like that. it kinda ends up being perfect for me, but then you'll see a band/musician perform something live and suddenly the tune has grown up and decides to take a walk somewhere else. but i feel imperfection in those types of landscapy songs in a way that makes me think of something in process - the land in process as it shifts from one type of feature to another. i'm just a sucker for erosion and events taking place slowly over time. those types of music make me think of slow glacial violent processes that are impossible to see clearly close up.
//useful description of the sound i ...
//useful description of the sound
i do like "noodle noise" though, that's an appealing term to me. puts across the idea that it's a riff that's jammed until it goes somewhere of its own accord, in a way.
There's always silly over-statements ...
There's always silly over-statements about such things, but I think there's some truth in it as well.
"Lull" by HDU does it for me evertime. I can't think of any overseas stuff i listen to that invites the listener to fall so deeply into the music. It's a beautiful thing.
Your surroundings definitely affect the way you write music (unless you are a cyborg and don't actually feel anything...) , and our little country is full of inspirational isolation.
So true. Lull is my 2nd fave rock song ...
So true. Lull is my 2nd fave rock song at the mo, after Nicklebacks new single.
Ah, Nickelback..... it must be hard ...
Ah, Nickelback..... it must be hard for Chad being a son of Rohan.....
HAH!...
HAH!
This reminds me of a thread from a ...
This reminds me of a thread from a while back... can't find it again though. But anyway, NZ doesn't really have exclusive claim to isolation, gorgeous landscapes, etc etc, so I don't really buy the idea that noodle noise rock bands are quintessential because they 'distill their music from our unique geography'. But there's definitely a je ne sais quoi isn't there, a mystique of some sort. Maybe it's less about what the band does, and more about active listening on our part.
...I mean, NZ itself doesn't create ...
...I mean, NZ itself doesn't create music- people perform it to other people. Action - Reaction.
I wonder- if you'd never seen Dunedin (for example), how accurately would you be able to visualise it from a soundtrack alone?
/people perform it to other ...
/people perform it to other people
...ok, too simplistic.
Some people see landscape, feel something, try to interpret it through performing music.
Other people hear people perform music, feel something, try to interpret it by comparing it to landscape.
Landscape just is.
It seems that the NZ noise rock/drone ...
It seems that the NZ noise rock/drone /wall of sound/noodle noise music works well as an aural metaphor for New Zealand scenery, or the scenery works as a visual metaphor for the music... or something. Or if not the landscape, then certain feelings evoked by said landscape. Something about the diversity and occasional epicness contrasted with gentler picturesque moments, and its like the whole mood-tone of the music changes, and thats reminds me of certain spaces which are familiar, ie landscape...Its like its drifting and light and then its dark dark, and its soft and then its heavy and then its just drifting some more and then its LOUD and HEAVY and theres that mood tone change again. It also has a lot to do with space, and space within the music, which affects how it breathes and flows. And this links in with the landscape and how we realate to that space... think of driving through New Zealand landscape and its rolling hills and fields, and its rivers and lakes and the sea never too far away, and mountains, and power pylons, and then you're in the city and you're surrounded by sky scrapers, and the only way you can see the sky is by looking straight up.
Sorry, that was rather rambly. Its a ...
Sorry, that was rather rambly. Its a difficult to explain, and it sounds kinda cheesy written down, but there is definately something about bands such as HDU that capture a remoteness and a darkness that i particularly associate with certain aspects of what i will call New Zealand's LandSpace. At times the music is pensive, aggressive, beautiful, peaceful, dark, and many other things...I love it. And I love that this music is so removed from fashion or trendyness or other such tedious notions. OK so now i sound kinda fan-girlish, but i can't help it :s
Not at all, I get it- the landscape ...
Not at all, I get it- the landscape isn't as passive as I made out- it's constantly changing with the weather & time of year, and we're usually experiencing it via a journey with a beginning, middle & end. NZ is pretty unique for the fact that there are plenty of amazing vistas connected by relatively short distances. The drones, repeated figures and epic sonics in a lot of NZ Noodle Noise (tm) are always well suited to a few hours on the highways...
Do you think its possible that you are ...
Do you think its possible that you are relating the landscape to the music because of its national grounding i.e you know in the back of your mind that Jakob are from NZ so you are making the link that way?. This type of music is often extremely programmatic so I also argue that it given another landscape setting it would also musically express these rather well...I mean talking about hills and flats is various forms - the swells and flows of this music would conjure up much emotion even if it wasnt NZ landscape....just a suggestion.
I would say that HDUs later sets ...
I would say that HDUs later sets sonically evoked the barren and alienating landscape of the Lower South Island of New Zealand. If I was a reviewer for the Listener or the Herald or something.
As for noodling, no, HDU'a guitarist couldn't 'nooodle' for shit, and moreover the rhythm section didn't really play anything worth noodling over. Leave that to bands like C.L. Bob, they were the only instrumentally driven NZ band of the nineties that were talented and unpredictable in my opinion.
It's from the noise rock being a ...
It's from the noise rock being a descendent of the Flying Nun aesthetic. Bailterspace's Splat displays the transition from jangley to breaking guitars. Early HDU is lo-fi and raw, like Chris Knox's recordings. Jakob use a spatial delay found in later HDU songs, like Lull, to create soaring soundscapes.
HDU evoke the isolation of living in a stoic society and the catharsis of angst. Jakob fills the void of open blue sky with the ego of man, imposing his whim onto the land, shaping bush clad hills into desolate fields and neatly ordered forests.
The myth of noise rock being unstructured plays to the audience belief of the music being etheral. Improvisation is more due to extensive knowledge, technique, and the ability to go with the idea. Also, the belief that isolation frees ideas from the restiction of comformity to trends and society's normalities ignores the role of a culture which fosters experimentation.
Woah - you really know how to turn a ...
Woah - you really know how to turn a guy on!...Anyhoo, in a timely piece of journalism (just when we're all yakking about it) there is a bit in the April issue of Real Groove about Bailterspace, Husker Du & MBV...plus a bit about HDU, who are playing at the Studio on the 22nd, and Sigur Ros who are here on the 17th. In other news, Mogwai, Concord Dawn and the Bleeders all have new albums out and Bauhaus are back.
Oh, and winter is coming too.
Can you clarify re: the culture which ...
Can you clarify re: the culture which fosters experimentation? Are you meaning in New Zealand? A certain town? A circle/circles of friends/associates in a specific time and place?
Culture forms in the mind and exists ...
Culture forms in the mind and exists with action.
Experimentation in New Zealand was initally from pragmatic reasons; making the most of the imstruments at hand, in towns where you had to make your own fun. The belief in New Zealand being a young country with no boundries and fresh possiblities further adds to the potential of its citizens pursuing their ideas.
The culture which fosters experimentation is not exclusive to a country.
Groups can also encourage the ability to experiment. Sigur Ros bassist, Georg Holm, mentioned in an interview on National Radio's Music Mix that the band members play whichever instrument is closest at hand when practising. They also support and pursue any musical ideas a member has when creating a song.
Random haphazard events are a part of experimenting but require the nous to follow and incorporate the event. The Who's 'Who's Next' album is a culmination of events. Initially the music was a soundtrack for a movie. The movie was never made but songs on the album still contain parts of the plot. On the album a simple oscillating synthesiser is used. Singular notes from the synthesiser are plain, but experimentation led to the use of basic chords to create dynamic harmonies and tones.
I'll restrict my comments to Jakob ...
I'll restrict my comments to Jakob sounding like the landscape, since I don't agree with any of the others you mention.
The music evokes an emotional state/response similar to that which the landscape does. So they get associated.
Why? Dunno. Why do minor chords sound "sadder"?
Are they trying to? Who knows.
Are they influenced on some level by their environment? Sure.
The effect is likely to be in the interaction of the listener and the music. ie if you play it to Japanese people they pronably won't nod and go "yeah, it sounds like new zealand landscape", because they are unlikely to have an emotional association for NZ landscape to be set off by the music.
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