JC, I understand that you want to talk to people, and that you want to talk about your experiences, but in all seriousness, do you really think this is the right place for it? I think that it's already been demonstrated that the NZM forums, while a lot more mild than many others can be, are often pretty snarky and insensitive, so I worry about you exposing your vulnerability like this - I mean if these are still issues that you're dealing with on a day to day basis, you might find that talking to a counsellor or someone within your church might be more helpful.

I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't talk about suicide, or that it's something that only you have ever been through, just that I'm not sure what benefit you're going to get out of this. But hopefully I will be proven wrong...

go graft yourself avril, let the guy post what he likes, going against the grain to express our true perspectives is coolish, and is one of a few admirable human qualities, telling people what they 'should be doing' is ne of the lamest and most cowardly. be that as it may, if you don't stop posting about the blowhardness of christianity JC i will personally send someone out to hunt you down and baptise you in the avon.

and if there was a NZ Christian musician's forum i'd be visiting it instead of visiting this one, at least people there probably wouldn't have this racism-like prejudice of Christians for simply existing in the same forum

> I find I think about suicide from time to time when I'm faced with a really stressful decision and/or if I'm physically run down. I rationalise the option away instantly, and I've never been in a situation where I could say I've considered suicide seriously. Regardlss, I find even thinking about it for the briefest moment unnerving.

i'm glad to hear you don't think about it seriously, but if you do ever feel like you have a really stressful decision to make and are physically run down so much that you do start thinking about it too much i hope you have support from other people and not let it get you to the stage where you want to kill yourself, and you can always e-mail me if it helps to have someone to talk to at all jesuscrux@hotmail.com, i've always found that if people are there for you it helps 'cos like for example they can perhaps give you advice on how to make a decision, or how they would make the decision. i used to not think about it seriously, 'cos i had my parents and little sister to think about, but when i moved away from them it's not that i cared less about them but it was just harder to feel like they were a part of my life that i had to keep living for

> My God you have some issues,is it really good idea to expose personal things like that in front of strangers? suicide : if you belive in a God (a christian god) ,then if you kill yourself, you go to hell. Whoe to the man who wallows in despair and denies the theological virtue of hope. Just like Judas who came to a worldy form of greif that lead to condemantion rather than a Godly form that leads to repentence. And all that. But if there is no God then death is just oblivion. Really it's no win either way.

i don't really see anything wrong about about talking about these things in front of strangers (instead of say close friends) or something, i don't know why you don' ttihnk you should've posted that either i always think if there's soemthing in your mind it's best to get it out, either to talk to others, or have others talk to you about it, like for example if you have a thought about what happens if you commit suicide (eg. you go to hell) maybe you can get more views from other people about what they think happens. that was actually a big thing that made me scared about committing suicide, whether or not it's what really happens i don't know 'cos God made us and surely if we were going through something really hard He could understand. as for Judas, he committed suicide because he was ashamed, Acts says he went to hell but i don't know 'cos before Jesus died He said: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do". other things that helped me not want to do it was the thought that someone else would commit suicide because they felt like they were responsible for my death, and thinking about all the people i loved and how even if they don't want to know me i'd miss seeing them around sometime in the future

I mean surely you must have gotten pretty low when Creed broke up JC?

see this is what is needed.....more sensible debate and opinion....i am with you manamana......

//Good on you man, i've been waiting for someone to have the balls to debate the hard issues....

Um, excuse me, I debated the big issue a long time ago:

[ external link ]

there must be alot of failed suicide attemps in CHCH seeing as the biggest sky scraper is only 2 storys high and the river is only 3 feet deep.

heh

thanks a lot... also that's really admirable if you can go through teenage angst stuff but are still able to keep standing through it without thinking about suicide, 'cos i think a big reason sometimes why some people want to commit suicide is to make someone else feel like they should've treated them better or something, but if they don't have that sort of "revengeful" mindframe then it shows they got quite a big heart for forgiveness

or perhaps just more "inner strength" to deal with things

depends really, i mean would you say the little 12 year old girl who committed suicide 'cos she was being text bullied at school didn't have personal responsibility?

but the reason i wrote "ability for forgiveness" was because for me personally that is my weakness that makes me suicidal, because i can't just let things go. that doesn't mean the little 12 year old girl can't forgive others, her reason could have been because she couldn't handle the pain