well, what's your definition of Christian?

yeah i realised you were being sarcastic, but at the same time i thought maybe you were thinking about my comments on kiwiblog which sometimes have some pretty offensive things written in them and where most people don't consider me to be a Christian even though i call myself one and call me a hypocrite instead (although i usually write those comments to prove a Christian point)

you're such a big tough macho man, i feel so bullied i should go commit suicide

// i should go commit suicide

I don't think you should juke about that kind of carry on

There's nothing particularly mcho about me or what I've suggested. I strongly suspect that your christian agenda is as repugnant to other NZMers as it is to me, but by responding to your inane "topics", which are thinly veiled opening lines for (once again) presenting your christian viewpoint on something or other which you know nothing about, the NZM community is effectively encouraging you to keep pushing your (unwanted) fundamentalist christian views.

Your musical knowledge is astoundingly limited (see your recent topic concerning "pop rock" and "alternative rock") and your opinions are formed without any consideration beyond the lies you're force fed at youth group, or Rodney Hide's blog, or something equally extremist and ignorant. You have so much to learn and so little capacity for seeing things from others' viewpoints.

NZM is one of the few places on the net that I know of where intelligent people discuss and debate things I care about, mostly centred in some way around music. We learn from each other, see things in a new light, share. Your attitude and almost everything you've done here flies in the face of that, forcing your dogma on all and sundry. You see things as you would like them to be, not as they are. You have never stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe, something you thought you knew turned out to be wrong.

Has anyone on here, ever, expressed even a remote interest in learning more about christianity? Has anyone ever asked if you know of a good church in their area? Are there any posts, apart from your own of course, in the classifieds, expressing a desire to form a christian band? No, and there never will be.

I'm tired of being subjected to your extreme right wing views, with no thought behind them. I'm tired of your stupid middle class Don Brash politics. Go away, get a job, rent a flat with some non-christians, listen to some music that isn't played on ZM, think, think some more, and come back. At that point, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

// it could've been something like "to end world poverty"

¿I have a big dream that the songs of Dragstrip are going to end world poverty?

There ya go!

A bit of info like that about songs can be good. But I always like it best when the commentary's given over the top of an extended intro (a la Memphis Slim's London sessions) or a lull in the middle of the song (a la U2's Silver & Gold live). When it's just talking between songs, it sounds like the band is just covering the the fact that the guitarist has got to tune up AGAIN!

Sorry to go against the flow of your topic, but I have no dreams for my music; just a goal: anonimity. I want to release songs without telling anyoneand just letting people encounter them coincidentally but never letting them find out who performed the songs.

I'm not convinced White Rhino has a hatred for all things Christian, JC.

That he is tired of you is self-evident, but this should not cause you concern.
Different Strokes you know Willis...

Big Dreams.

well... I was hoping to be happy on my chosen instrument and to vocalize some of the sounds and feels I could hear but not yet say. Despite many years of this and some inroads being made I am still at it.

I hoped to attract the highest level of Musicians I could, I hoped to put forward some solutions I had in my head but nowhere else to outlet, I wished to interact "Live" with Musicians in conversation. Despite many years of this and some inroads being made I am still at it.

I hoped to learn the Recording process from different angles, Genres, Studios and Employers.
Despite many years of this and some inroads being made I am still at it.

I hoped to set up a Leftist Business framework for individual members to share and grow into where they set their involvment levels. Despite many years of this and some inroads being made I am still at it.

I hoped to create and record Music that those who I love and respect would in turn love and respect. That all the things I am not, could at some level, be at least heard or the things you wanted to be said where spoken. Despite many years of this and some inroads being made I am still at it.

Hopeless dreamer, but thats part of the charm of making Music.

Let's get one thing straight - I don't hate christians or christianity, and in fact I agree with some bits (my absolute favourite, and a good rule for life, being the old "Do unto others"). My best friend invited me to see him get baptised a couple of years ago, something that was important to him, and I went, and I thought it was a beautiful idea, and it was right for him - it was great to see him so happpy. A lifestyle choice I guess - some people are christians, some people are bikers, some people are into house music. That's cool, fine by me, live and let live. He doesn't talk about much, and when he does, he doesn't insist that we agree, he just puts in his two cents and that's that.

It's not really about your religion, though lately it has been. I felt the same during the politics thing. It's your attitude overall. You're like a child with your hands over your ears, eyes shut tight, screaming at the top of your lungs to avoid hearing what anyone else has to say. You could be a muslim, buddhist, atheist, whatever, and you'd still be completely certain that everyone else was wrong. I've spent a lot of time (too much time) on trying to make you see the error of your ways, but I'm not sure you have the capacity at this stage in your life to reflect on this and see that maybe when the entire group is telling you something that's at odds with your opinion, maybe it's time to reconsider.

I would also strongly advise you to discontinue using the word "youse" in any context.

Yeah, some of your examples pretty much hit the nail on the head with me too Monsieur Foal. I'm not sure if that's depressing or reassuring.

Hey don't quote me in there. I was being facetious.

> A bit of info like that about songs can be good. But I always like it best when the commentary's given over the top of an extended intro (a la Memphis Slim's London sessions) or a lull in the middle of the song (a la U2's Silver & Gold live). When it's just talking between songs, it sounds like the band is just covering the the fact that the guitarist has got to tune up AGAIN!

ha, as a solo musician it's impossible to talk and retune my guitar at the same time : P but yeah those examples are cool too

> Sorry to go against the flow of your topic, but I have no dreams for my music; just a goal: anonimity. I want to release songs without telling anyoneand just letting people encounter them coincidentally but never letting them find out who performed the songs.

interesting. i get so frustrated when i hear a song i really like and don't know why it's by though. if your songs become famous people would come up with all these conspiracy theories and stuff about who they're by!

> It's not really about your religion, though lately it has been. I felt the same during the politics thing. It's your attitude overall. You're like a child with your hands over your ears, eyes shut tight, screaming at the top of your lungs to avoid hearing what anyone else has to say. You could be a muslim, buddhist, atheist, whatever, and you'd still be completely certain that everyone else was wrong. I've spent a lot of time (too much time) on trying to make you see the error of your ways, but I'm not sure you have the capacity at this stage in your life to reflect on this and see that maybe when the entire group is telling you something that's at odds with your opinion, maybe it's time to reconsider.

well if i remember correctly most of your posts in my topics have been personal abuse with no real room for discussion, so i don't know how you come to all these conclusions as if we've had some real in depth debate about it. andi don' tknow what you mean by not listening to what everyone else has to say i read all the posts in my topics

> In the last few thousand years all its done is slow down the recognition of EVERYone of EVERY culture/sex/sexual origin/race having equal rights.

- just because people do things in the name of Christianity doesn't mean they're accurately reflecting its principles. Jesus is the perfect example of Christianity where he recognised equal rights for all human beings, sinners and non-sinners, rich and poor, whatever race, whatever gender, sexuality (although homosexuality is considered a sin, as is lust in general), criminal record, etc. that everyone has the same opportunity to be forgiven, that everyone was worth dying for

> I have a dream that my band will end MY poverty.

well i hope your it does 'cos it sucks to be in poverty

> The fact that you label any post you dont start as 'non-christian' is closeminded and makes you an idiot. There are those who are also christian but dont 'judge' people as you are doing.

well you've just made that up, saying i label any post i don't start as non-Christian, considering that's not what i said. how am i judging anyone?

/i think lyrics like those are just such a good reminder that when we're doubting God's love for us when something unhappy happens, we just have to remember He was willing to go far enough to even die for us, and that's something few people would do for us

I don't hate it as much as Rhino does when you go for the pulpit like this JC, but it is annoying. There are other religious/'spiritually aware' NZMers on this site who are nowhere near as full on as you are, and BONUS, they manage to have conversations with people that don't hinge on test-a-fying in every second paragraph. Do you think you could manage that?

well, no-one's actually answered my question in this thread so there isn't much to reply to...

it's ambiguous 'cos you've probably never bothered to look into it. if you can offer a logical explanation for existence and our conscience and what happens after we die i may look into it

I really, really, really , really suggest you start reading other books, like perhaps science books.

Actually admittedly some of the bible isn't that ambigious, like this great bit,

"Leviticus "20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

// if you can offer a logical explanation for existence and our conscience

can you offer any evidence that animals believe in an afterlife/heaven or some divine creator?
It seems obvious to me at least that all living things fundamentally exsist to survive. In most part a species will work together to achieve this. As long as humans have existed they have been unable to accept this-therefore primitive myth and modern myth such as the bible/koran etc.
There is a large amount of evidence to prove that Jesus Christ was not one divine prophet but infact a creation hundreds of years after the fact by the church and was the culmination of many selfproclaimed prophets that existed in the area at the time.
I have no problem with the fundamental prinples of most religions-treat people well, be tolerant, be respectful. These priciples are vital to our survival. They are common sense.
I can also see how Christianity etc gives a platform for these priciples and because it's a relatively old and large system its may seem very convincing.
But I just don't get it.
Every atom in my body tells me that religious types are part of systems that cause more harm than good and are in fact these systems act as a very cloudy and misguided "middle man" to the real truth.
We are Matter.

> The atoms and the energy that make up a person during a lifetime are dispursed and recycled just like any other in matter in the universe. People in the past have called it 'going to heaven', or meeting your maker', or 'reincarnation'. I call it a rule of Physics and the way of the universe.

so how did it all begin? and how do you explain things like our thoughts and conscience?

> "Leviticus "20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

well perhaps you don't know Leviticus is from the Old Testament, ie. the old covenant, and the people that followed those rules were the Pharisees, who applied them without the fundamental ideas of grace and forgiveness that Jesus brought in the New Testament, where He died for our sins (like adultery) so that we wouldn't have to be punished for them (at least not by God). have you read the bit about where the Pharisees were preparing to stone a woman to death for being caught in the act of adultery, then Jesus said they were only allowed to attack her if they themselves had no sin, showing the point that no-one was perfect, and He said to the lady He didn't condemn her, and gave her another chance to start living a good life

> can you offer any evidence that animals believe in an afterlife/heaven or some divine creator?
It seems obvious to me at least that all living things fundamentally exsist to survive. In most part a species will work together to achieve this. As long as humans have existed they have been unable to accept this-therefore primitive myth and modern myth such as the bible/koran etc.
There is a large amount of evidence to prove that Jesus Christ was not one divine prophet but infact a creation hundreds of years after the fact by the church and was the culmination of many selfproclaimed prophets that existed in the area at the time.
I have no problem with the fundamental prinples of most religions-treat people well, be tolerant, be respectful. These priciples are vital to our survival. They are common sense.
I can also see how Christianity etc gives a platform for these priciples and because it's a relatively old and large system its may seem very convincing.
But I just don't get it.
Every atom in my body tells me that religious types are part of systems that cause more harm than good and are in fact these systems act as a very cloudy and misguided "middle man" to the real truth.
We are Matter.

there is also a large amount of evidence that Jesus Christ did exist, and regarding animals if you consider them to be the same as humans (as mammals) then yes some humans do believe in a Creator. and as for "religious systems" causing more harm than good well the same could be said with non-religious systems, plus if you think people being killed in wars started by Christian leaders or little kids being raped by priests is a reflection of what Christianity actually is then that's just a stupid way of judging a religion

//So you're really just preaching to the choir.... Literally

i don't read this 'just' to mean 'only' in that manner,
i'm sure members of a choir are listening to christian stations and so he's certainly preaching to the choir
could also be interpreted to mean that he's 'only'/'merely' preaching
+
guitaroid didn't say 'you're preaching to just the choir'
which sort of negates any need to ask;
'Do only choir members listen to Christian radio stations?'

just adv. (jst, jst; jst when stressed)

1. Precisely; exactly: just enough salt.
2. Only a moment ago: He just arrived.
3. By a narrow margin; barely: just missed being hit; just caught the bus before it pulled away.
4. At a little distance: just down the road.
5. Merely; only: just a scratch.
6. Simply; certainly: It's just beautiful!
7. Perhaps; possibly: I just may go.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=just

assuming his music is sctually played by this type of broadcaster.

i find this kind of ped·ant·ry as offensive as the christian stuck record, and i genuinely feel writing this post to be bad for my heart. i've deleted my further illustrative examples. i hope you can see my point joanna, i'm just tired of a language so disparate in it's oral and written forms (and sick of some other stuff too)

ps. joanna, what's your job? ; p

i'm aware of that sam, i was being a black cock