he has a strong point rdor.
if a child begs you to beat he/she soundly with a frying pan, and you accept,
will the ensuing beating constitute a crime

more likley that he was mature for his age, approached her, and she was just an idiot.
I've never heard of a genuine female paedophile.

Or what about poor Davidito? I'm sure he was mature for his age and 'wanted it'?

[ external link ]

/I simply have to read them to see what you have come up with.

Same- although usually it has positive spin offs for me- I end up trawling the web for political/ethical/philosophical ammunition, and get so interested in what I find that I often forget why I started looking. I mean, I found this really challenging feminism debate yesterday which left my head reeling... I'll have to read it a few more times before it sinks in properly...

in the lack of a credible alternative explanation for it - and you have none - then it's most likely i'm right about that.

/...WHY he does it
/...Motivation
/...credible explanation

You're reaching, rdor. Arguing with you is like clapping with one hand.

/A rape is when someone acts on their belief that their need for sexual gratification is more powerful than their victim's ability to defend themselves from it.

Or to use small words, rape is a sexual assault.

Normal people enjoy sex.

Rapists enjoy sexual assault.

Can you tell me what makes sexual assault different to sex? Then, tell me what makes a rapist different from a normal person.

//Arguing with you is like clapping with one hand.

Hahaha, that was a wakeup call. I think I'll stop thinking about criminals now, and go meditate.

I meant that you can't look at it in isolation. Normal adults feel physically attracted to one another sometimes- this does not a rapist make.

What is 'attractive' to a rapist is the power they have over their victim.

well I've argued against that. It means that the man gets to have sex with someone he otherwise be able to. That would of course mean any woman at all for most of them. The diffenence between us and rapists is the level of objectification, and a complete disregard for the victim as a human being.

Case in point, long time serial rapist from south auckland gets a grilfirend, and stops his offending for the duration.

// Listen to your nonsense.

rdor, listen to yours. Out of all the people posting, noone has said "yes rdor, that's so true". Do you think that 100% of posters-bar-you are the loony exception to your weak "everyone knows it" logic?

Everything your mum taught you is a lie. If you're still holding out for the possibility of ever having a loving relationship, go see a psychologist. I'm fucking serious. Actually, perhaps you should start looking into Scientology.

...(less) consideraton?

thanks heather
knowbody wants to face the ugliness around this issue, so its' easier to hide behind the pc bullshit. I've never heard of a female rapist, have you? where are the genuine female paedophiles. Why don't they exist, why is it only men do this stuff. You have no explanation, al you can do is deny the connection.

But fine - "women can be sickos too" then, you get to keep your knight in shining armor daydreams, and us guys no longer have to deal with the ugly association.....

//Do you think that 100% of posters-bar-you are the loony exception to your weak "everyone knows it" logic?

So..that would be "yes" then? Got a Cassandra complex?

//SO, rdor, sex is just rape with less objectification and more consideration?

He's already stated as much numerous times. I don't think he's ever dissociated sex from exploitation.

REALLY tired of talking about this.

Fucking hell nothing ever changes............ see ya all in another month

//You know nothing.//

so you think it is about powe do you? that whole feminist theory has been proven wrong, even feminists now acknowledge this. The premise was - if rape is about power and patriarchy then if we change society, make men less inclined to desire control over women, and get rid of patriarchy, then rape wouldn't exist. A problem with a solution. But its a load of crap, rape is about sex.

//if rape is about power and patriarchy then if we change society, make men less inclined to desire control over women, and get rid of patriarchy, then rape wouldn't exist. A problem with a solution.

Umm, pretty much your very existence proves that we haven't managed to change society enough yet.

that's a fantastic answer Heather. another one of those "cut & paste; repeat" moments.

No heather, you misunderstood. Not every guy is a potential rapist, woman do not "ask for it" by dressing a certain way. There is not excuse for these men, I was simply saying that their principle motivation is sex, not power.

Actually, I do get your point, and I both agree and disagree. I think explaining away every rape situation as a power thing is as mistaken as explaining it away as a sex thing.

But in domestic and date-rape situations (like you said, they make up the vast majority of rapes) sex and power are both very tightly linked. There's a massive power imbalance in situations where a woman suffers abuse from her partner, or a girl or boy from their stepfather or teacher, or where a girl/boy is drunk at a pub, or even just naive - assuming that every person that buys them a drink is harmless.

A man's primary motivation for rape may not necessarily be because he feels emasculated by his crappy job. But no man would rape a woman if they didn't think they could get away with it without losing a testicle, or avoiding the wrath of their victim's friends or even their own social circle, or being able to justify it in their own minds as their right, generally losing control of the situation in some manner. The immediate impetus may be to get laid - primarily for a date rapist, I wager - but of course there's a significant element of power, even the ability to ignore those fundaments of treating others with respect is a fucked-up form of empowerment.

I guess what I mean is that both sex and power are major and inseperable elements of a sexual attack, and neither is necessarily the root cause of an attack on its own. The reason that I disagreed with you the first time was because of the ramifications of certain of your meanderings that you often seem to think have no bearing on each other:

* Women would be horrified if they knew what men were thinking about them.

* Women don't even like sex anyway, except as a way of getting security and intimacy.

* Men see women as sexual objects. The only difference between rapists and "normal" men is that the rapists extend that perception to the point that they stop caring whether or not they hurt a woman.

* Women that dress up like slappers are buying into their own sexual objectification. Therefore they could be seen to be playing up to would-be rapists' perceptions.

..so I guess I can understand why you're so confounded that "women would want to dress like that". But I still hold to my original comment - while I can't deny that all those points have a grain of truth under certain circumstances, you've still taken some extreme and out-of-context facets of some very complex and textured issues, and treated them as the norm. You do that a *lot*.

/They've had time to "eye them up",nd ofcourse being sick bastards they have no inhibitions, and don't care about their victims.

Listen to your own logic... you acknowledge that rape is predatory, that the attacker objectifies/dehumanises their victim, that the subject of a rape is a 'victim', that rape itself invloves a lack of control on the part of the attacker, and then say it's just sex? ? How completely messed up.

we'll you'd know

...I already regret asking...