No such thing as a predatory woman
Especially for N/A, and to divert the sex abuse posts to their own topic...
First ever woman to be convicted of sex with a minor in NZ, and she got community service.
So...compare and contrast. Do you reckon that women are likely to ever be sent to jail and treated like evil paedophiles, Graham Capill stylez? You reckon a man could get community service by talking about their nervous breakdown?
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Comments
a woman culd never force sex on a adolescent boy, unless she were real butch... the whole physical intimidation aspect of it isn't there for a woman abuser. The small number of cases with woman seem to involve boys in their early to mid teens, so it's not paedophilia.
> a woman culd never force sex on a adolescent boy, unless she were real butch
So your rationale is that if she can't force the boy to stick it in that is some how better than what Graham Capill did?
he has a strong point rdor.
if a child begs you to beat he/she soundly with a frying pan, and you accept,
will the ensuing beating constitute a crime
//The small number of cases with woman seem to involve boys in their early to mid teens, so it's not paedophilia.
So men that abuse 13-year-old boys shouldn't be condemned as harshly?
more likley that he was mature for his age, approached her, and she was just an idiot.
I've never heard of a genuine female paedophile.
Like Rosemary West?
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Or what about poor Davidito? I'm sure he was mature for his age and 'wanted it'?
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rdor, every further post of yours convinces me that you are either the trolliest troll on these boards or a a complete and utter boofhead. I sincerely hope that you are the former because I find it difficult to believe that anyone with a modicum of sense would actually espouse some of the views that you appear to hold so dear.
Though I must admit to a fatal fascination with your posts; I simply have to read them to see what you have come up with.
/I simply have to read them to see what you have come up with.
Same- although usually it has positive spin offs for me- I end up trawling the web for political/ethical/philosophical ammunition, and get so interested in what I find that I often forget why I started looking. I mean, I found this really challenging feminism debate yesterday which left my head reeling... I'll have to read it a few more times before it sinks in properly...
.heterrosex ( and male homosexuality I guess) is always to do with the male as the objectifier, the female as the object. Its the nature of male urges - the other is an object of sezxual desire - you know this, I know this - that's the also the reaons why men rape, it's nothing to do with power, it's sex. The diea of a woman doing this is kind of appealing acutally,cause it makes us men feel better, cause perversion is no longer ajust associated with men, but lets be honest - it is fundamentally a male thing.
So its rather ridiculous to suggest that a woman would abuse a boy for the same reasons that a man would. More likely she has mental problems and is looking for intimacy in the wrong place, so the fact that she's a woman sould affect the sentencing.
//rdor, every further post of yours convinces me that you are either the trolliest troll on these boards or a complete and utter boofhead.
//that's the also the reaons why men rape, it's nothing to do with power, it's sex.
Do you even listen to yourself rdor? You know nothing.
Fucking hell nothing ever changes............ see ya all in another month
//You know nothing.//
so you think it is about powe do you? that whole feminist theory has been proven wrong, even feminists now acknowledge this. The premise was - if rape is about power and patriarchy then if we change society, make men less inclined to desire control over women, and get rid of patriarchy, then rape wouldn't exist. A problem with a solution. But its a load of crap, rape is about sex.
Well I guess that ties in with your insistence that women that dress in short skirts are "objectifying" themselves. Women are a tool of their own downfall, since some men can only deal with a certain amount of sexual tension before they just *have* to fuck someone.
Seriously rdor, saying that rape is purely about sex is identical to saying that some guy regularly beats up his wife purely because she's always doing things wrong. There's clearly more to rape than just sex, other factors that override some pretty fundamental attributes that dictate our ability to coexist with other humans.
Not every sexually frustrated guy is a potential rapist, just as not every woman that wears a short skirt is a potential hooker with a self-image problem, just as not every husband with a ditzy wife is potentially guilty of domestic abuse, not every divorcee is a selfish freeloader, not every conservative christian is a judgemental dupe, not every liberal christian is a fraud that's tweaking their beliefs to suit their indulgent lifestyles. By constantly focussing on the most extreme negative aspects at either end of demographic spectra, in your head you've normalised some pretty abnormal attitudes and behaviours - extended them to the entire population. I'm surprised you can bring yourself to interact with anyone at all, ever.
//if rape is about power and patriarchy then if we change society, make men less inclined to desire control over women, and get rid of patriarchy, then rape wouldn't exist. A problem with a solution.
Umm, pretty much your very existence proves that we haven't managed to change society enough yet.
that's a fantastic answer Heather. another one of those "cut & paste; repeat" moments.
heh, cheers, I was actually thinking of quoting your sandwich board and all. "THE END ISN'T NIGH!"
No heather, you misunderstood. Not every guy is a potential rapist, woman do not "ask for it" by dressing a certain way. There is not excuse for these men, I was simply saying that their principle motivation is sex, not power.
...then you might reply by saying " well if that's so, why don't they just go to a prostitute then?" I think the answer lies in that fact that most of the victims are known to the rapist before it happens. They've had time to "eye them up",nd ofcourse being sick bastards they have no inhibitions, and don't care about their victims.
Actually, I do get your point, and I both agree and disagree. I think explaining away every rape situation as a power thing is as mistaken as explaining it away as a sex thing.
But in domestic and date-rape situations (like you said, they make up the vast majority of rapes) sex and power are both very tightly linked. There's a massive power imbalance in situations where a woman suffers abuse from her partner, or a girl or boy from their stepfather or teacher, or where a girl/boy is drunk at a pub, or even just naive - assuming that every person that buys them a drink is harmless.
A man's primary motivation for rape may not necessarily be because he feels emasculated by his crappy job. But no man would rape a woman if they didn't think they could get away with it without losing a testicle, or avoiding the wrath of their victim's friends or even their own social circle, or being able to justify it in their own minds as their right, generally losing control of the situation in some manner. The immediate impetus may be to get laid - primarily for a date rapist, I wager - but of course there's a significant element of power, even the ability to ignore those fundaments of treating others with respect is a fucked-up form of empowerment.
I guess what I mean is that both sex and power are major and inseperable elements of a sexual attack, and neither is necessarily the root cause of an attack on its own. The reason that I disagreed with you the first time was because of the ramifications of certain of your meanderings that you often seem to think have no bearing on each other:
* Women would be horrified if they knew what men were thinking about them.
* Women don't even like sex anyway, except as a way of getting security and intimacy.
* Men see women as sexual objects. The only difference between rapists and "normal" men is that the rapists extend that perception to the point that they stop caring whether or not they hurt a woman.
* Women that dress up like slappers are buying into their own sexual objectification. Therefore they could be seen to be playing up to would-be rapists' perceptions.
..so I guess I can understand why you're so confounded that "women would want to dress like that". But I still hold to my original comment - while I can't deny that all those points have a grain of truth under certain circumstances, you've still taken some extreme and out-of-context facets of some very complex and textured issues, and treated them as the norm. You do that a *lot*.
Found that other online debate I mentioned ^, if anyone's interested...
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/They've had time to "eye them up",nd ofcourse being sick bastards they have no inhibitions, and don't care about their victims.
Listen to your own logic... you acknowledge that rape is predatory, that the attacker objectifies/dehumanises their victim, that the subject of a rape is a 'victim', that rape itself invloves a lack of control on the part of the attacker, and then say it's just sex? ? How completely messed up.
er, no I said that the motivation behind it is sexual, not about power. That doesn't make it any less digusting. More, in fact.
we'll you'd know
Rape is motivated by sex? Rape doesn't happen without an attacker and a victim, dude. Is that how you view sex in general?
...I already regret asking...
what the hell? the motivation in the mind of the rapist, why he would do that, duh. What part of that don't you understand?
not everyone understands the mind of a rapist as well as you.
rdor, they say that everyone is entitled to their opinion; in your case I think we need to make an exception.
whatever, you need to learn to read.
Yeah deliberately misinterpret what was said, thus giving impression that I, or anyone else you happen to disagree with, is a weirdo.
/the motivation in the mind of the rapist, why he would do that
So, you mean 'sex' as opposed to being motivated by, I dunno, used car prices or rare species of moth?
Sex is part of the lives of all sexually mature human beings, so you might as well say 'genetalia motivates rape'- I'm just trying to explore your logic, man.
//So, you mean 'sex' as opposed to being motivated by, I dunno, used car prices or rare species of moth?//
yeah duh, that's what I meant, should have been more clear I guess. There's0 been that theory around for while that rapists do what they do because it makes them feel powerful. That' thats the motivation. I was simply disagreeing with that. That doesn't mean I think that men can't control themeselves, or that women who dress in skanky clothes are to blame. Its just that there are some scum out there who want their "peice of meat", and will do anything to get it, as long as they don't get caught.
There is no sure-fire way to stop it from happening, unless we kill these guys at birth.
/that theory around for while that rapists do what they do because it makes them feel powerful.
A rape is when someone acts on their belief that their need for sexual gratification is more powerful than their victim's ability to defend themselves from it.
It's always about power.
Jesus, man- I always wonder whether you're being deliberately or genuinely obtuse. Makes me paranoid.
/.heterrosex ( and male homosexuality I guess) is always to do with the male as the objectifier, the female as the object. Its the nature of male urges - the other is an object of sezxual desire - you know this, I know this
If this comment articulates your personal attitude towards sex, then I guess the rest of your comments are understandable. Bored now. Bye.
that has nothing to do with justifying anything. Just saying the male attraction to women is based a lot on physical stuff - and its easier for that to be perverted, so that others become objects for gratification rather than people, for some psychotic men anyway.
But for woman it's all emotional. So women are much less likely to be abusers than men.
/Just saying the male attraction to women is based a lot on physical stuff - and its easier for that to be perverted
Well, since we aren't amorphous gaseous blobs floating in space i.e. we are physical beings, we're all aware of physical attributes in others that we find visually pleasing and attractive- but it's a complete generalisation on your part to say that physical attraction is something felt exclusively by males towards females. I think I see where you're coming from in principle, but it's being skewed by your own preconceptions of who is/is not capable of physical attraction, & I don't think physical attraction has anything to do with rape.
// I don't think physical attraction has anything to do with rape//
um, right...then why not just slap them around a bit? Listen to your nonsense.
I meant that you can't look at it in isolation. Normal adults feel physically attracted to one another sometimes- this does not a rapist make.
Oh no, it's only ever pretty girls who get raped, never grandmothers or fat chicks.
What is 'attractive' to a rapist is the power they have over their victim.
well I've argued against that. It means that the man gets to have sex with someone he otherwise be able to. That would of course mean any woman at all for most of them. The diffenence between us and rapists is the level of objectification, and a complete disregard for the victim as a human being.
Case in point, long time serial rapist from south auckland gets a grilfirend, and stops his offending for the duration.
otherwise 'wouldn't' ......
// Listen to your nonsense.
rdor, listen to yours. Out of all the people posting, noone has said "yes rdor, that's so true". Do you think that 100% of posters-bar-you are the loony exception to your weak "everyone knows it" logic?
Everything your mum taught you is a lie. If you're still holding out for the possibility of ever having a loving relationship, go see a psychologist. I'm fucking serious. Actually, perhaps you should start looking into Scientology.
/level of objectification, and a complete disregard for the victim as a human being.
So why not argue yourself into a corner?
So sex is just rape without as much objectification or consideration?
...(less) consideraton?
...lemme try that ONE more time...
SO, rdor, sex is just rape with less objectification and more consideration?
(Got it!)
thanks heather
knowbody wants to face the ugliness around this issue, so its' easier to hide behind the pc bullshit. I've never heard of a female rapist, have you? where are the genuine female paedophiles. Why don't they exist, why is it only men do this stuff. You have no explanation, al you can do is deny the connection.
But fine - "women can be sickos too" then, you get to keep your knight in shining armor daydreams, and us guys no longer have to deal with the ugly association.....
//Do you think that 100% of posters-bar-you are the loony exception to your weak "everyone knows it" logic?
So..that would be "yes" then? Got a Cassandra complex?
//SO, rdor, sex is just rape with less objectification and more consideration?
He's already stated as much numerous times. I don't think he's ever dissociated sex from exploitation.