ok heres a wee task for your Friday afternoon, imagine if you will you are having to explain rubgy to someone with very little understanding of the game...
scrums v rucks v mauls
1/2 backs, full backs, hookers, 1st 5/8ths, tight heads, front row, second row,
1st phase play, 2nd phase play, short line outs,
please demistify
oh and the reason I am asking ... I now parent a provincial rep..
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All I know is if you can't see the ...
All I know is if you can't see the ball then watch the ref, and cheer when everybody else cheers.
good points, and I have been informed ...
good points, and I have been informed that yelling "Go Baby" isn't really the best idea
//good points, and I have been informed ...
//good points, and I have been informed that yelling "Go Baby" isn't really the best idea
Go Boy, Go son or Go (insert son's name here) are probably more acceptable encouragements while watching rugby being played.
Oh, sweet, just when I thought I had ...
Oh, sweet, just when I thought I had run out of procrastinations!
//scrums v rucks v mauls
Scrums are always performed after stops in play, usually for a minor indiscretion that does not warrant a penalty shot at goal... eg a player from team 'A' knocks on the ball by accident, so team 'B' gets the 'feed' to the scrum (that is they get to put in the ball. Rucks occur after the initial tackle situation, when a player has been forced to the ground. While it is still a tackle, the tackler(s) are able to try and use their hands to win the ball back from the player in possession. However, as soon as the tackle becomes a ruck (supposedly when two or more players are competing for possession, but realistically at the referee's discretion) only feet can be used to win the ball. You are also allowed to push opposing players, who are protecting the ball, away from their tackled player, but only if you come from BEHIND the ruck.
A maul is also usually after a tackle, but the tackled player stays on their feet. Sometimes teams intentionally start mauls to drive the other team backwards (re: Keven Mealamu's winning try last Sat), but this can be dangerous because if the maul is not moving, and the ball can't be removed, the defensive team gains possession.
The ruck area is probably one of the most confusing and ill-defined laws in any sport. I've simplified it majorly.
//1/2 backs, full backs, hookers, 1st 5/8ths, tight heads, front row, second row,
half back wears No.9. They put in the ball to the scrum, and usually pass it to the backs from the scrum/ruck/maul situation. Their main task is a quick and accurate pass, but often they act as another forward in defense (hence HALF back) and often make clearing kicks to relieve pressure. Famous halfbacks include Meg Marshall and Pornstar Kelleher. Halfbacks are often referred to as having 'little man's syndrome', in which they talk too much trash relative to their small stature.
Full backs wear no.15. Mils Muliaina is usually the AB 15. Their 'default' position is behind the initial attack/defense line of backs. They are the last line of defense, but also need to place themselves right place, right time, in joining attacks. They also need to be able to catch long kicks and kick for touch to relieve pressure.
Hookers wear No.2 eg Anton Oliver. They 'hook' the ball backwards in the scrum with their foot when it is put in. They also throw the ball into the lineout. Their job is to be big, tough and strong.
1st 5's wear No.10. They are a key member of the team, because usually they play in 'first receiver' - that is, of the many passes from the halfback. 1st 5's need to be able to run, pass, kick, direct play, tackle, and so much more. They are taregetted heavily by the opposition.
Tight heads either describes a position (tighthead prop), or alternately where the ball is put into the scrum and the opposition hooker steals the ball... this is a 'tight head against the feed'.
Tight head the position is part of the front row, which refers to the front row of the scrum. This includes the tight head prop, the hooker and the loose head prop. Their job is to be strong and look hard, although nowadays props are becoming more and more athletic - for instance, Greg Somerville is one of the fastest AB's over 3K's.
Second row refers to the two locks (the tall bastards who usually jump and hopefully win the ball in the lineouts). I'm sure you can work out why they're called the second row.
//1st phase play, 2nd phase play, short line outs
1st phase play is the first passage of play that occurs after gaining possession. After a tackle is made but possession retained, it becomes 2nd phase play and continues to count upwards. The goal is *usually* to link as many phases together as possible. The link is stopped if there is a mistake that stops play, the ball goes out, or there is a penalty, and so on.
Short line outs are an option given to the attacking team (who are throwing the ball in). Both teams must have equal numbers of players in a lineout - in a 'normal' lineout the whole forward pack is involved - but this can be reduced if so desired.
That's it - if anyone wants to correct me on anything I'd be happy to concede. Sorry this is so long, but I did try and simplify things and leave some stuff out.
not to long at all. Ok he plays ...
not to long at all.
Ok he plays wing... number 11, up untill 6 weeks ago he was 2nd row.. being tall and strong, thank god they worked out that he is very fast as well, and good luck had the selectors on the side line during his 1st game on the wing.
So here is another question, he comes home very battered, black and blue, I like a good mother should admire his war wounds... but how do I look after him and get him ready for the next game the next day? Are there lotions and potions it should rub on its skin?
Well, muscle pain is best treated by ...
Well, muscle pain is best treated by massage and Deep Heat lotion (or perhaps Voltaren(?), Deep Heat is used just before a game to warm up stiff muscles if you're playing over consecutive days).
Bruises, I don't know, I think they have to be left alone really. Not my area of 'expertise'.
Comming from someone who has played ...
Comming from someone who has played rugby for around 15 years of my 20 years life,
NO rugby player has a fucken clue about the ruck/maul situation, because ever single ref interprets it differently, if players understood the difference between rucks and mauls and refs all ref'd it the same there'd be NO penalties.
Its all very well explaining it in theory, but really that means fuck all when you boil it down
Ruck, when more than one player for each team has joined the tackler and the tackled player on the ground, this is when hands are NOT allowed to touch the ball, unless you are a person picking it up form the back of the ruck, ie halfback,
You must join the ruck from behind the ruck not from the side,
Maul - when the ball is held up above the ground and more than one player from each team has joined and bound, you may NOT bind in front of your own player, you may not intentionally stop a maul by taking it down to the ground, if the maul stops and doesnt restart moving again after 5 seconds the ball is turned over to the oppostion
Scrums - when 8 forwards.... ( this is when your mother says " what are forwards?" and you reply " thos guys in the jerserys that number from 1-8") bind up and form a maul that is semi controlled, one team feeds the ball through the centre of the scrum and the hooker ( the guy in the number 2 jersey) hooks the ball with his foot to the back of his side of the scrum,
"Ok he plays wing... number 11, up ...
"Ok he plays wing... number 11, up untill 6 weeks ago he was 2nd row.. being tall and strong, thank god they worked out that he is very fast as well, and good luck had the selectors on the side line during his 1st game on the wing."
Nice, how old is your son? im guessing not that old, because moving from lock to wing is a pretty big jump
"
So here is another question, he comes home very battered, black and blue, I like a good mother should admire his war wounds... but how do I look after him and get him ready for the next game the next day? Are there lotions and potions it should rub on its skin? "
Radox bath salts, OR if you finances dont allow that, simple hot and cold showers. must always finish on cold showers though, easy, it gets rid of lactic acid in your muscles and helps rid some stiff and soreness from them the next day, also proper warming down and stretching of muslces helps too,
Deep heat, is good for warming up, and Anti Flame - the peppermint smelling stuff is great for pulled muscles when massaged in properly, also Ice on injuries is a good one to use too ;)
other than that, some harden up pills wont go a miss ( im kidding :p )
Wow, thanks dantheman, your ruck/maul ...
Wow, thanks dantheman, your ruck/maul explanation was really illuminating. (Nothing personal jimi, just dantheman managed to get through my team-sports mental block)
//Wow, thanks dantheman, your ruck/maul ...
//Wow, thanks dantheman, your ruck/maul explanation was really illuminating. (Nothing personal jimi, just dantheman managed to get through my team-sports mental block)
hahah its the truth, no one has a clue what the difference is, in theory sure, but putting it to practice is different.
me rugby player, you rugby watcher
//imagine if you will you are having to ...
//imagine if you will you are having to explain rubgy to someone with very little understanding of the game...
This is what I would say "here are some DVDs we should watch instead"
But of course, congratulations to the boy child. Or the girl child, if that's the case.
//But of course, congratulations to the ...
//But of course, congratulations to the boy child. Or the girl child, if that's the case.
ya - ups ... huh, roo the tall strong wing... ok
bruises - let him show them off
oi, don't pick on Jo, I hadn't said ...
oi, don't pick on Jo, I hadn't said tall and strong when she posted, and not all of nzm has met the fandamily.
And thank you Joanna,
You're welcome Aka. Don't girls ...
You're welcome Aka.
Don't girls play sports where you're from, Samflux?
Ahh nevermind all that Aka cause it’s ...
Ahh nevermind all that Aka cause it’s all about what you say, not what you know . . .
When the team your supporting is penalised –
“oh bullshit ref , what game are you watching?“
“hey ref , does your husband play?”
“oh so it’s okay for them buggers to do it, but not us aye?”
* never ever clap *
When the opposing team is penalised –
“good call that ref, good call”
“about bloody time, he’s been doing that all day ref”
* just look smugly at opposition supporters *
* always clap *
In general play –
“oh bloody hell, he’s a mile offside”
“fuck sake Nonu you useless greedy dumb-arse, pass the fucking ball goddamn it”
“Go Nonu you fucking beauty, yeah that was awesome”
“don’t kick it, pass it”
“oh don’t bloody pass it, kick it”
Thank you, much much better than "run ...
Thank you, much much better than "run baby run", but in school boy rugby we side liners have to watch our mouths......... I have seen a team penilised an addtional 10 meters for a "what, are you fucking blind ref", from an over enuthisasic mother
ohh yes okay, fair enough ...
ohh yes okay, fair enough too.
anyway to maybe actually be some help -
Jersey #'s
Forwards
1 = Loosehead Prop
2 = Hooker
3 = Tighthead Prop
4 = Lock
5 = Lock
6 = Blindside Flanker
7 = Openside Flanker
8 = Number 8 (genius name that one)
Backs
9 = Halfback / Scrum Half
10 = 1st 5 / Fly Half
11 = Left Winger
12 = 2nd 5 / Inside Centre
13 = Centre / Outside Centre
14 = Right Winger
15 = Fullback
//Scrum Half Fly Half Inside ...
//Scrum Half
Fly Half
Inside Centre
Outside Centre
LugHead if I ever see you using those terms again on this board there'll be hell to pay.
yeah I know sorry Jimi, still haven't ...
yeah I know sorry Jimi, still haven't worked out who the centre 3 quarters is
Loosehead Prop Tighthead Prop are in ...
Loosehead Prop Tighthead Prop are in relationship to their position relative to which side the ball is being put in, or is it the way the scrum fits together, ie one of them is being squished?
tighthead is being squished - LH . ...
tighthead is being squished -
LH . . H . . TH >Team A
TH . . H . . LH > Team B
oh that didn't come out right - LH ...
oh that didn't come out right -
LH . . . H . . . TH
. . .TH . . .H . . . LH
ok goodly blindside? see a few ...
ok goodly
blindside?
see a few years ago the was a neat wee book put out called "the mother's guide to cricket" which explained stuff like silly mid offs and the like, ......... I really am not enjoying being this thick, but it's so bloody frustrating when the man child is explaining his game and I am only getting about 1/2 of what he is saying........ I have tryed to pick stuff up by watching the AB's games but the announcers talk so much inconcequental bollocks... yeah well, .......thank you so much and there will be more questions as they come up
Blindside & Openside basically refers ...
Blindside & Openside basically refers to the room or amount of field there is on each side of the scrum – say the scrum is set closer to the left hand side of the field the blindside flankers (# 6) would be set on the left hand side of the scrum & the open side flankers on the right hand side
(err wait that’s working on a dodgy north/south up/down field)
umm – blindside is on the side closest to the side line
Blindside Flanker Jerry Collins
Openside Flanler = Richie McCaw
also (cause I know you really wanna know), Forwards are also known in their sub groups -
Front Row
1 = Loosehead Prop
2 = Hooker
3 = Tighthead Prop
Second Row
4 = Lock
5 = Lock
The Front Row and the Second Row make up what is known as the Tight Five
Loose Trio / Loosies
6 = Blindside Flanker
7 = Openside Flanker
8 = Number 8
Right now I’m off to watch the Mighty Wellington Lions get clobbered by Waikato . . . ehh, bugger where’s the faith :(
//Geez youd be happy with that result ...
//Geez youd be happy with that result wouldnt ya Lughead? just when you think they are out BOOM they come back like that,
ahh they were never 'out' I never doubted them for a second ;)
Fly Half Inside Centre Outside ...
Fly Half
Inside Centre
Outside Centre
Lughead, I am hereby banning you from using such european and stupid terms as Inside and Outside centre, and Scrum half and Fly half,
Im sorry Lughead, I didnt want to do this to you but ... you leave me no choice, now go to your room and think about what you have done.
Before I take you out the back and give you a rucking...remember Lughead aslong as Im going for the ball its legal :)
//Right now I’m off to watch the Mighty ...
//Right now I’m off to watch the Mighty Wellington Lions get clobbered by Waikato . . . ehh, bugger where’s the faith :(
Geez youd be happy with that result wouldnt ya Lughead? just when you think they are out BOOM they come back like that,
Given Waikato played like absolute shizer, and if it werent for Wellingtons forwards where would the be?
Ma'a Nonu as captain? who are they kidding? I just about choked when I heard that he was captaining the side, it was the funniest thing I had heard in a long time
AKA - another thing you must know is, Forwards are the best players on the field, they do all the hard work but the backs take all the credit...
ok 2 more.. how do they work out where ...
ok 2 more..
how do they work out where the conversion is kicked from?
why on earth when they get the ball in 1st phase play (see i learned) do they run right back into where everyone else is still standing and dusting themselves off?
to draw in more defenders into the same ...
to draw in more defenders into the same area - so if they can quickly get the ball back out wide there hopefully will be gaps to run through
and cause it's fun to smash into ...
and cause it's fun to smash into people who are busy dusting themselves off . . .
Conversion: how wide/close to the ...
Conversion: how wide/close to the sideline it is, is determined by where the try was scored. (eg try in the corner, tough conversion from the sideline). The kicker can take it back however far they want to get the best angle.
"how do they work out where the ...
"how do they work out where the conversion is kicked from?"
that one has been answered so no need to go any futher with that
"why on earth when they get the ball in 1st phase play (see i learned) do they run right back into where everyone else is still standing and dusting themselves off"
You gota understand, us forwards have a tendancy of being fat and lazy sometimes :) so we prefer if the glamour boy backs dont make us run to far, hence the setting up a ruck closer to the forwards :) hehe
Draw in defenders, minimise the turnover ball factor, and common sense... I mean whats the use in running away from support when you could just head back there to the guys you know have your back right?
//us forwards have a tendancy of being ...
//us forwards have a tendancy of being fat and lazy sometimes
I only saw hi lights but didn't a lock score a running try last night?
//I only saw hi lights but didn't a ...
//I only saw hi lights but didn't a lock score a running try last night?
hahaha yes I was kidding, yeah and so did the number 8 scored a great try, see when the backs are playing crap ie like wellingtons were last night, the forwards then have to do everything ;) its a tough job but someone has to do it,
Re: forwards vs. backs: the common ...
Re: forwards vs. backs: the common saying being - forwards win the game, the backs decide by how much.
// forwards win the game, the backs ...
// forwards win the game, the backs decide by how much.
haha indeed, although being a forward myself, I prefer the saying - Forwards win the game,end of story :D
heh, you forwards can win the game - us ...
heh, you forwards can win the game - us centres will score the chicks :)
//heh, you forwards can win the game - ...
//heh, you forwards can win the game - us centres will score the chicks :)
haha typical, stupid backs you guys are lucky you have forwards to save your asses when you get in trouble ranging too far out wide.
AKA before I forget when you see a ...
AKA before I forget
when you see a forward getting spit out the back of a ruck or a maul and you see him getting rucked its a good thing,
Now I know being a careing mother you are ( I hope so anyways) you will be worried at the prospect of having your boy walked over by multiple men waering boots with vast numbers of metal sprigs in them, but Rucking is good, no matter what anyone tells you, its a good thing :)
they do cause some impressive wounds, ...
they do cause some impressive wounds, and i think men children like to show these off, he has some stunners the other week 4 long rakes running the full lenght of his inner thigh, mere millimeters away from ending the family line there and then.
Seeing you did ask, he is 12&1/2 years old, 5'10" and around 60kgs and when last timed does 100m in just under 11seconds........... and is stunningly good looking with golden reddy blonde hair that curls into natural ringlets around his handsome face
Ohhhhhhhh Aka, I have to say I haven't ...
Ohhhhhhhh Aka, I have to say I haven't contributed to this thread because, quite frankly, I know bugger all about rugby. But I tell you what, your committment(sp?) to your boy is a stunner. Yay for you!
aka, your son does the hundred metres ...
aka, your son does the hundred metres at just under 11 seconds, at 12?
//Seeing you did ask, he is 12&1/2 ...
//Seeing you did ask, he is 12&1/2 years old, 5'10" and around 60kgs and when last timed does 100m in just under 11seconds...........
haha Holy crap, 11 seconds wow thats pretty impressive, sounds like he should be a sprinter rather than a rugby player but Im glad his sport of choice was rugby.
Yes Ruck marks are great to show off, I am actually disappointed when I come off the field and havent been rucked, People from auckland just cant do it, althought I love to dish it out and instead of them rucking me back they get all angry and try and fight me
There is nothing better comming of the field and feeling the sting in the showers when the water hits your ruck marks, sure it hurts like shit but its a great feeling known youve put your body on the line and all those other rugby cliches you cant think of
As for the stunning good looks, well he should be ok, hes not playing in the front row or locking, so his ears should be fine...they wont turn in the Jono Gibbes ears
//Jono Gibbes old skool...
//Jono Gibbes
old skool
//he is 12&1/2 years old, 5'10" and ...
//he is 12&1/2 years old, 5'10" and around 60kgs and when last timed does 100m in just under 11seconds
Oh shit. he really has grown up. At least I'm still slightly heavier. But if we were both on safari I'd be eaten by the lion, fast little bastard.
// hundred metres at just under 11 ...
// hundred metres at just under 11 seconds, at 12? .... done at school trials so accuracy may be an issue, I think it is one of god's wee jokes that I have ended up with a sporty kid
// your committment(sp?) to your boy is a stunner... thanks much, but ask me how interested I was in Nz music 4 years ago, before the girl needed a parent to take her to gigs, I still feel the boy get the short end of the stick.
//eaten by the lion... looking at the lionques mane he is currently sporting I think all he would need to do is roar and you'd both be safe.
once again cheers for the help, I'll be taking notes during the game to night so expect morre dumb girly questions...
oh and while you are waiting, seeing I have shamed both the boy and myself already..... support garments?
//oh and while you are waiting, seeing ...
//oh and while you are waiting, seeing I have shamed both the boy and myself already..... support garments?
Shamed? Umm any team colours, or club jackets, what club does he play for? Im guessing being 12 he doenst play for his school yet.
Theres no such thing as stupid questions...
I'm guessing by "support garments" you ...
I'm guessing by "support garments" you mean like. cups or jock straps or whatever it is that boys wear, right? Rather than "clothes for supporters"
//whatever it is that boys wear, ...
//whatever it is that boys wear, ............. ummm yes, never too sure if these things are real or just a running gag.......... I think they are athletic supports, but remembering the olympics and the tri-athalon, I am sure they are made up
//I'm guessing by "support garments" ...
//I'm guessing by "support garments" you mean like. cups or jock straps or whatever it is that boys wear, right? Rather than "clothes for supporters"
ahhhh trueness, um I wear headgear and shoulder pads,
Headgear - because I am a forward and alot of shit goes down in rucks and mauls, and I have been concussed a couple of times and the sporting doctors i have seen said it would be a good idea to waer it. Headgear doesnt stop you from getting KO'd but it helps a little bit,
Shoulder pads - likewise I have had trouble with Sub-luxing in my shoulders ( hyperextensions) and it gives a bit of protection and support to my shoulders,
The best thing you can do is get a good, strong mouthguard, not only will it save teeth, but itll help protect against concussions, most people think its getting a shot to the head that concusses you, but alot of the time its the power of your jaw closing that does it,
Boots, with 4 sprigs at the front and 2 at the back are more ideal for backs too, forwards generally have the 6 or 8 are the front and 2 or 4 at theback