// That huge Tomato fight is another thing I am against, how many tonnes of tomatos do they totally waste for some stupid tradition, when you have millions of people starving in 3rd world countries, it just doesnt make sense,

How are you going to get the tomatos there and distributed, Dan?

nuclear bombs don't spoil. nor do aging rock stars, apparently...

If you're going to feed the starving masses in third-world countries instead of indulging in the wasteful practices of the west, then may I put forward a far better indulgence than La Tomatina (approx. cost = 160,000 euros) - how about we cancel a grand prix or two (approx. cost of hosting = n0,000,000 euros - substitute for n pretty much any figure between 6 and 20)?

New Zealand kids are iodine deficient! We must stop making playdough! That salt should be eaten instead!

Why do you have to be such a nay sayer?

Seriously what the fuck is your problem?
Excuse me for having some sort of optimism and/or putting forward an idea that I thought was pretty fucken valid, considering its such an immense waste of decent food, that people in other parts of the world could do with pretty badly,

Sure they go off, etc, but hey it was a suggestion, as for the nuclear bombs not going off, If man can create nuclear bombs im sure they can create some sort of storage to preserve food.

geez, way to totally poo poo that idea, forgive me for trying to help people that are starving.

//If you're going to feed the starving masses in third-world countries instead of indulging in the wasteful practices of the west, then may I put forward a far better indulgence than La Tomatina (approx. cost = 160,000 euros) - how about we cancel a grand prix or two (approx. cost of hosting = n0,000,000 euros - substitute for n pretty much any figure between 6 and 20)?

At least your putting forward an idea Heather...more than I can say for some people.

According to this page, the US wastes 45 billion kgs of edible food a year, when only 1.8 billion kgs of food would solve world hunger...

And allegedly there is absolutely no shortgage of food in the world... it's just not very evenly distributed...

[ external link ]

//According to this page, the US wastes 45 billion kgs of edible food a year, when only 1.8 billion kgs of food would solve world hunger...

And allegedly there is absolutely no shortgage of food in the world... it's just not very evenly distributed...

I'd buy that, wouldnt suprise me at all,

//Excuse me for having some sort of optimism and/or putting forward an idea that I thought was pretty fucken valid, considering its such an immense waste of decent food, that people in other parts of the world could do with pretty badly

You want others to give up what's important to them to make the world a better place, but you're not prepared to make sacrifices yourself. That's what I have a problem with. Just saying "oh, they shouldn't throw tomatoes cos it wastes them" is incredibly lame and won't achieve anything. If you start a big letter writing and education campaign, and show others what you're doing in order to help - oh, and become a vegetarian because it's much more efficient in terms of food production, then maybe you're actually doing something. Otherwise you're just running your mouth off.

about world hunger I mean, not putting this thread back on course

> What do you suggest could or should be done Noizy?

I actually think giving up red meat is the simplest way an individual can make inroads into animal cruelty, world poverty and environmental issues. It's an easy triple-whammy move. And healthy, too.

A stupid amount of resources is put into farming beef and sheep worldwide, for an incredibly poor return on the actual nutritional value and the quantities of food returned. There's also an equally disportionate amount of animal suffering and environmental damage involved in the farming of meat.

I don't think there is anything anyone in our situations can do about poverty in many third world countries short of regular aid agency donations, or, more dramatically, actually joining an aid agency and physically helping get the food to the people who need it. The logistics do exist to get the required food to those in need, but corruption, warfare and inefficiency conspire to stop it from getting through. We need to get rid of a lot of those corrupt regimes, but the only way we can do that is for western nations to vote in governments that will put pressure on those countries who need to sort their own acts out, as opposed to governments that see the third world as a big cheap-labour, cheap-resources supermart.

//Otherwise you're just running your mouth off.

As opposed to just shitting on people with sarcastic remarks and cynical comments for making a suggestion as to an alternative to having what really is nothing more than a glorified food fight in the middle of a street,when they could be doing something worth while with it?

I made a suggestion,you can disagree Joanna but be such a snob as to point out everything that could go wrong with it because you dont agree with it, so far I havent heard you put for ANYTHING that could help solve this problem,all you have done is tell others who crap their ideas are...

"Gotta start somewhere, dont you ? Start small but think big"

Yep, cannot agree more. As they say, doing something, no matter how small is better than doing nothing.

//That's cos I'm not trying to solve the problem, I'm just sitting here running my mouth off on the internet. Duh.

ooooooooohhhhhh Now I get it

dan, no need to take the comments so personally. I think the biggest annoyance is that sometimes it seems like the only time people really give a shit about "starving children in third world countries" is when someone mentions a festival that involves throwing food.

The issue isn't so much that you want to address the plight of third world countries, but that the trigger for your concern is so arbitrary. Why does it take people throwing tomatoes before you get angry about starving children? It's like some kind of pavlovian reaction - the only reason you (or anyone) would react to La Tomatina is because you've been conditioned into the kiwi "clean your plate" mentality. I wager your sense of conservation in relation to food is a deeply-rooted element of your childhood, but that same keen sense of conservation doesn't apply (at least not so much) to other consumables. When was the last time you saw the formula one advertised and thought "man the cost of one of those cars alone could feed an entire village"? That goes for any major event - sports match, music festival, expo, conference..you name it.

So I guess my point is that Noizy, Joanna and I think you're wasting your good intentions on a relatively harmless and inexpensive festival. You're much better off, say, opting for a more fuel-efficient car (or taking a bus when possible) and giving the savings you make to Unicef or World Vision. It'd only take 200 people saving $20 a week on fuel to completely eclipse the cost of La Tomatina.

//So I guess my point is that Noizy, Joanna and I think you're wasting your good intentions on a relatively harmless and inexpensive festival.

ahhh - i think he just spat out one sentence with too many coma's and you guys pounced on him - what bullies - (i prefer too many hyphens myself)

my two euros - just because its tradition doesnt mean its 'right' - which i think was dans point

//ahhh - i think he just spat out one sentence with too many coma's and you guys pounced on him - what bullies - (i prefer too many hyphens myself)

If that was the case, if it was just the presentation and not the actual ideaology that was crap, I would be like "SAMFLUX, YOU ARE A PATHETIC HUMAN BEING FOR USING AN APOSTROPHE IN A SENTENCE THAT DIDN'T NEED ONE AT ALL", but I'm not doing that, obviously.

I think there's a line here about stones and glass houses - I just wonder how Dan would feel if people in Spain were braying over the internet for him to become a vegetarian, for example.

//Why does it take people throwing tomatoes before you get angry about starving children?

it doesnt, it angers me in general. but you can see what Im getting at right?

//I just wonder how Dan would feel if people in Spain were braying over the internet for him to become a vegetarian, for example.

he'd probably feel more than you do. (about anything you care to name)

you have feelings joanna, no need to go to extremes, but your ability connect with your feelings has been withered down by years of priviledge.

personally i find your implication that spaniards are horses offenisive

No, you were right the first time. And wow, it's like you're channelling Kalpana, my much missed counsellor. And I'm not paying you $130 an hour, it's like magic or something.

//0h the decadence, oh the cleaning costs.
Cleaning costs are marginal - the streets are hosed down while the participants jump in the river. Takes about two hours.

//heather i think the connection between the F1 and the tomato festival is tenuous, sure i see the connection, but very few people actually eat cars. tomatoes on the other hand are quite readily consumed. it's not so much money, it's about consumable produce, reared to maturity and thrown at people,
Do you think Bunol's local council gets their funding in tomatoes? Since both tomatoes and car parts may be traded for varying amounts of the same legal tender, I put it to you that the value of car parts may therefore be expressed in tomatoes. In that sense, car parts are just one degree from being edible.

//'wasting good intentions' indicates that you see tomatoes being in greater supply than good intentions. i disagree with this.

Fair enough. However, I think the ultimate value of good intentions may be measured by the consistent action that is borne of them. Applying good intentions to a situation in which you are unable or unwilling to act, or to encourage others to act, is for all intents and purposes, a waste of those good intentions. Drawing from the current example, dantheman gets angry (his word) about tomatoes, but is unable to do anything to alleviate that anger and the resulting stress. It would be better for his stress levels, his self confidence and the environment/people he helps, if he channelled his energy into areas in which he is able and willing to act.
Oddly enough, most of this little tirade is drawn from lessons that I've learned from your past posts.

//I put it to you that the value of car parts may therefore be expressed in tomatoes. In that sense, car parts are just one degree from being edible.

maybe youre taking the piss - but with this kinda of logic you can prove anything - not really even worth disproving, you can just telescope some other grey concept and be back in the game... lets step back for a sec and look at the larger picture (p.s , this is fun tho)