shit...worst thing is when one band flys and the other has to drive..hahah...goddamn i hate it when i see that happen.

//are you referring to the goldenhorse/breaks tour?

hahaha, it'd be veeerrry easy to jump to conclusions when a friend/rellie of a supporting band for goldenhorse asks that question... ;)

I was just wondering about the politics of it all. It has been illuminating seeing behind the scenes for sure. Andy says that it's standard issue for sound and lights to be less flashy - I understand that. But I was pondering the other stuff, is all.

// Ian had some comments recently about crap service re: sound and lighting for entree bands

and i'll repeat that rant..cause it fucks me off...

// Andy says that it's standard issue for sound and lights to be less flashy

yeah, jackie this is unfortunately standard. It fucks me off everytime. Its called the "kill switch" or the "shit switch", but generally speaking a support band for a "major label" artist (i know that is a hideous generalisation, I don't know how else to summarise it though) gets around half to 2/3rds the volume through the PA that the headliner gets and usually only a handful of lighting. like maybe 3-4 different colours. Also, if you can't use your own sound engineer, they will usually do a pretty shitty mix for you as well, I mean you usually only get 4 or so channels anyway as opposed to the headliner who may have 16-24 mic channels.

Supports for internationals is just a lottery. Its still worth the shafting cause you get to play to a new and big audience and get a guaranteed payment, though you sometimes have to measure the value of looking average for the sake of a few bucks.

its made me really hate some bands that i actually liked until i heard about the shit they pulled on their support bands. Some internationals are better then others, some bands will give you FULL house lights and you play AS the doors are opening. Some have some respect and their sound and lighting technicians will actually make a decent effort with the limited options available to them.

haha...its bullshit that Goldenhorse are pulling this on breaks co-op though. maybe if Breaks co-op were supporting an international they should expect that shit, but, hahaha...i;d be so embarrassed if i were in Goldehorse and had to talk to those guys after giving them the kill switch. (how do you defend that?)

I hate that shit more then anything. I would LIKE to think that i would never do that to a band, though i can understand the shitty ass politics behind it.

Now, Blink - I didn't say that GH are giving BC any shit at all. I was just wondering how support acts generally get treated. I would hate to open a can of worms, I'm just - as I said before - curious. Actually, I should really have asked for peoples' best stories', eh? Might have been a bit less " jump to conclusion" y

// I was just trying to get into the band

I'M SHOCKED!

//you usually only get 4 or so channels anyway as opposed to the headliner who may have 16-24 mic channels.

At the Nick Cave gig, David Kilgour had to use an entirely different desk, mics, and snake. His set-up was totally seperate from the main acts. However, this does mean you get 16-24 channels of desk.Only white lights, too, from memory.

It's a "standard". At least for gigs where its not 8 bands for $5. DOn't see why you should get fucked off and rarked up about it.

Consider things like lighting desks being programmed by technicians who are paid to light the main act for 90 mins, not 4 bands for 3 hours+. Same applies for sound desk guys. Consider the 'theatrics' of it all -its always been like that and I enjoy it.

Support bands need to be able to play well under those circumstances, get really good and headline their own shows, where they'll be carrying the gig and support bands coming through will be learning their craft.

Support bands need to stop listening to this bullshit hype that they deserve the same set-up as Interpol.

While the audiophile in me would normally jump up in defence of good sound all round, when your band props up a major headliner, you're already getting tons from it- raised profile, fresh contacts, a chance to get your songs stuck in the heads of a fresh audience and the increase you could expect in sales/airplay, the increased likelihood of picking up another major support, the experience of playing to a far larger crowd than normal & the learning curve that comes with it.
The suck knob ensures you will have no chance of sounding better than the headline act. So what? It's their gig and you play it on their terms, to a crowd that they've pulled. Be fussy at your own gigs. Treat support gigs for what they are. Avoid support slots if your sound is so important to you.
Having said that, I don't generally enjoy watching a good band's sound get sacrificed to the gods of rock 'n roll, whatever the situation. It usually doesn't happen at showcase gigs, where all the bands have similar profiles and there's no 'support act' as such. I tend to go to more showcase gigs than headline gigs.

Warning!! rant!! warning!! sorry, personal peeve.

// It's a "standard". At least for gigs where its not 8 bands for $5. DOn't see why you should get fucked off and rarked up about it.
---eh? where does 8 bands for $5 come into it. I have been to numerous shows with 2 or three bands, where none of them try to make the others look shit.

//Consider things like lighting desks being programmed by technicians who are paid to light the main act for 90 mins, not 4 bands for 3 hours+.

yeah, as I've stated before, I don't really think lighting is too much of an issue. A couple of static coloured cans is enough, just not house lights you know. It doesn't take that much effort to turn a couple of lghts on. Shit what Nick Cave did to David Kilgour was embarrasing.

//Same applies for sound desk guys.
You usually need to supply your own sound guy anyways. They are the ones getting pointed the level on the volume that they can't go beyond.

//Consider the 'theatrics' of it all -its always been like that and I enjoy it.
What? The theatrics of making others look shit? Gee that oughta be fun... I can imagine seeing the theatrical book that you get when you pay your cover:

(Act 1) The "Villian" the first band (unbeknownst to them) will be made to sound only half as good as they could.
(applause)
(Act 2) The hero will then come and strike fear into their hearts as they turn their amps on full and blow away the shitty little villian.
(more applause)

I'm glad you enjoy seeing good bands getting dis-respected. (ooooo..dem's fighting words)

//Support bands need to be able to play well under those circumstances, get really good and headline their own shows, where they'll be carrying the gig and support bands coming through will be learning their craft.

nah. having to play quiet so people can talk over you and playing under bright lights so you look boring does'nt involve learning of any crafts, its just ego games played by the main band, fair and square. I've been involved with shows where the support artist hasn't even been allowed a full drumkit for fear of being to loud and impressive

//Support bands need to stop listening to this bullshit hype that they deserve the same set-up as Interpol.

When does a headlining band become an asshole? like..there must be some point where they decide.."alright, from now on we will turn the opening band down". Cause bands don't start out like that. Do you need to go Platinum to start being bitchy? what is the level? If i ever got asked to turn down an opener, i would be so embarrassed i would cry. hahahaha...I can just imagine having to ask the Dead C or HDU to turn down when they played before Gerling..haha, that would have been worth it just to see the look on their faces.

it sounds like somebody convinced you that this shit was cool dust. stink. Maybe my head is so far up my own ass that i am talking shit, but i reckon its far far from cool. Many many bands don't do it to their supports...what makes a band decide to do it? Theatrics? I very much doubt it.

PS. I think Interpol are being pretty cool with The Demi Whores sound wise. I won't be positive till tonight, but it seems they are at least been giving a fighting chance.

/'kill switch'

I always thought it was called 'the suck knob'... must've been a different desk.

/Theatrics

Yeah, at stadium-size events, where you've got 40,000 people waiting for the big act, the support bands routinely get a dose of the suck knob. Then Our Heroes take to the stage with big sound and bright lights and everyone is happy. This is standard fare. It's funny though- sometimes the suck knob doesn't work as well as you think- Snow Patrol supported U2 in Dublin a few months ago with the suck knob turned up, yet they still got the whole crowd singing along to 'Final Straw', 'Light Up' etc... good songs will make it through a bad mix.

// Hey Blinky Boy, don't take offence but, um,

i never take offence. i would hate for others to take offence at the shit i spout.

//Maybe you should actually be in a band before you let these things worry you!

managing bands you get as upset as the band when they aren't shown in the best light they should be. I probably worry me more to be honest cause the band aren't actually aware what they sound like FOH.

//You yourself said that "the cream rises". So does that mean that If I rise to the top and if for whatever reason you turn up one night that I've got to treat you with the upmost respect?

you don't have to show me shit, but if i managed the band who was supporting and you had them made quieter..i'd think you were a dick.

Are you sitting on the fence on this one? If you supported a band who made you play half the volume they did, would you think they were good cunts or are you just messing with me, cause its fun to rark up ol' blink.

I was stoked that Interpol were actually pretty cool to The Demi Whores... they did go through a seperate older desk, but they had full volume and though the lighting was simple, it was the lighting they requested. choice. good to see.

nah, generally EVERY international support you have to use you own drumkit (unless they are borrowing yours), you just place it in front of their kit... however, this band expressly asked for a stripped down snare kick and hats kit only.

//"however, this band expressly asked for a stripped down snare kick and hats kit only."

//aww weak. that reeks of insecurity

How So? i dont really think so.. a drummer who can play with such a small set up is good and doesnt need lots of other things to hit to make him/her sound choice without doing big fills on like ten drums and twelve cymbals and wanking all over the place.. its a cool little simple set up and is WAy harder to sound just as good on as you have less to work with..
on the other hand, if the drummer was TOLD that was the set-up he was using.. then that is plain cunty

can everyone please start naming names. i dont like not knowing.

// that was some sweet sifting with Nato last night. respect.

i liked it when you tried to get backstage by saying your girl friend was there.
and i tried by saying that i had coke.

// great excuse for shit bands to blame someone else.

yeah...thats the thing. generally if a band gets an international support, they are not "shit" at all...usually the contrary, but because of circumstances thrust upon them, they are made to look shit. How many "shit" bands have you seen do an international support? and was your opinion of them as "shit" decided before or upon seeing them in an unfavourable situation.

// Still dig the theatrics of it all. Magic.

it might be more theatrical if the general public were aware of it happening.

I totally don't devalue your opinion, i just found it totally wierd that you actually "dig it". Not what i expected from you who must have witnessed this happen time and time again.

Just like the last time this debate came up I took it too personally, so i'll flag this one too cause otherwise i'll be filling up these boards with my righteous wank for days.

It is a business desicion to make your competition appear weaker, therefore make your brand/band stronger and more appealing. simple as that. Got nothing to do with music.

making people aware that it happens is important so people view support bands with an open mind. and thats my last on it. (until someone starts a new topic about it :)

// i swore i got some "evils"

Shit, never, no way! You must have been projecting. I seriously saw this today. I was just trying to get into the band/show (find it hard to talk at shows).

If I disagree with someone I'm more likely to tell them straight up and then have some fun!

//it might be more theatrical if the general public were aware of it happening.

I'm kinda trying to be Joe Public #568. I've always been aware of it as a punter. I kinda go so I get that moment when lights go out and bang! on comes the main act, big volume, full lights - and its their show, their time to shine for 60 minutes or so. Can they pull it off? Last week they supported a band and this week they are headlining their own show.. is it different? I kinda (live music fan wise) live for those moments.

Some bands might abuse the standard and be arsey about, some may ignore it and not adhere to it, but I reckon most understand the dynamic of it and I romantically like to think its not a necessarily evil strategy - just showmanship. Putting on a show. Just the same as dropping the lights before they come on. etc etc I fully understand thats sounds a little different from what you'd expect. I guess I believe in the heirachy of a show that night and that there will always be a next time for the other bands.

I understand where you comin from (as the band that supported etc) but I'd hate to see it change (as the punter). That is unless its a DieDJDie style 8 bands $5 style gig with no heirachy. Then its just even stevens.

overall there's no "right" that works for every gig. thats clearly obvious. I mean it do depends on what band we are talking about here. not sure what i'm even doing in this topic. just got sucked into saying i kinda like the kill switch. who wooda thunk it?

Blink you just support band way before they've broken!!!

Dammit, whiplash fo' sho'. sigh.

CHRIS GEE DUDE!!!! Danika here, remember me!!!!! How are you? Just joined this website today to find a guitarist and saw you posting!! Wow!!! Txt me so we can catch up for coffee! 0273280049 and if you might happen to know a covers guitarist needing work. Hope you are well xx

And what about having a small little desk which took 2 people to carry and a big one that took 10 people to carry in. Support act on the little desk...

Would it be such a sin to have the support act the SAME volume as the main act? God forbid they be allowed to accurately represent their music as it is meant to be heard.

and also...

Word to the Blink!