The recent topics discussing the value of live music, difficulties that new bands face attracting audience, and whether venues provide enough support to bands are really the same issue:
"Quality Control"
At the moment a large number of venues don't have high enough standards on what quality of event can take place. By ensuring that only a minimum standard of performance is allowed a number of benefits and improvements will occur:
1. The general public will be encouraged to check out live performance at music venues more often. Thinking of this in terms of fish 'n' chips as long as your favorite shop is consistently good then one bad meal probably won't put you off. However if the strike rate for receiving a good meal was one in three (even if those good meals were the VERY best) you would probably start eating pizza.
2. John & Jane Doe would know that they can go to 'such and such venue' any night of the week for great entertainment. This will lead to higher numbers of people checking out live music venues more often not just to catch the acts they know. Live theatre works very well in this regard and I know that I am happy to go to Bats any night and buy a ticket at the door for whatever is on.
In terms of fish 'n' chips I know that Fish Fins in Newtown are pretty good every night of the week!
3. Greater exposure for bands as they will have the opportunity to perform to a wider range of people regardless of how well established they are
Regarding fish 'n' chips I know that word spreads like wild fore. People will travel across the city just to get Medway fish 'n' chips even though they might live in Northland just because of a longstanding reputation for good food.
People are prepared to go out of their way for good quality even rescheduling other activities.
4. The ability to charge higher door fees. People are always happy to take a gamble if they can be guaranteed a high standard of entertainment.
The more that people want your fish 'n' chips the more that you can charge for them.
5. New bands will always have an audience made up from regulars that will begin attending venues, the general public that know they can safely turn up any night of the week to see a great show as well as supporters of the band meaning more positive gigs particularly for new bands.
What I would like to see is more venues developing regular customers and not relying solely on that evenings act to bring in people. Venues can do this by being more selective about the standard of act. A 200 capacity venue should be aiming to attract 40 people midweek each night by themselves and 80 people on weekends with the other numbers being made up by the band supporters. This ensures that even quiet nights are reasonable for the venue and the performers.
Bands therefore have to ensure that before they approach venues to book into gigs that they have worked out a number of things: (More experienced bands already do these things but it is still surprising how many bands don't!)
1. An organized performance. Turn up on time etc. There is nothing worse than waiting for 40 minutes for a band to set up!
2. Useful advertising. Posters are reminders to people that already know your act. Unless posters include a description of the act or the genre they aren't always useful to people. Pretty pictures look cool but unless they have the relevant words they don't work effectively.
3. Introduce yourselves to your audience, make them feel welcome. This ensures that they are keen to come back to the venue where they will see you again in the future. It also means that they are more likely to look out for your band name in the media and support you at other venues.
4. Speak respectfully to your audience. Very few people actually like being spoken to in the way that NZ bands traditionally speak.
5. Be polite to venue staff. It often turns into a better rider and return invitations with better conditions.
I am not seeking huge change in how live venues operate and am certainly not asking bands to work significantly harder. What I am doing is challenging venues to offer better conditions:
1. By advertising more vigorously the location and name of the venue
2. Having stricter control on the standard of performance.
3. A better rider ie Meals, bar tabs, sound guy and postering all help to make life easier and more pleasant for performers. This ensures that bands are more enthusiastic about improving their act to the satisfaction of the venue.
My challenge to performers is that they think about their immediate live shows with more consideration for the needs of venues and satisfaction of patrons. Your friends will put up with pretty much anything but it is the general public that you need to excite and entice back. to venues and to your future shows. Before you go on stage put your imaginary audience (the one that you dream of playing to in the future due to your international success) aside so that you can perform a top quality show to those immediately in front of you.
A few simple changes to the way that venues select acts as well as bands being more thoughtful about the needs of venues and their patrons can bring significant benefits to everyone.
Regards,
Tane McLeay
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You should always expect respect from a ...
You should always expect respect from a venue and you should respect your audience and play shorter sets and keep your changeovers quick. But you can't polish a turd and Natural Selection is "Quality Control". Bands that are good live soon build word of mouth followings and develop an audience. Bands that have good recordings soon start selling more albums when people start listening. Quality Control already exists because if a band isn't quality then they probably won't get any further.
And if we're talking analogys, then please allow me to digress.
Perhaps the idea is not to make small changes like quick changeovers and talking to your audience, but to go take another shit, maybe practise more, record more, write some new songs and then perhaps when its time to take another crap, maybe it won't stink so much.
That is too true. Quality, quality, ...
That is too true. Quality, quality, quality. When all venues demand higher standards of quality, life will be much easier for everyone. Thanks for your thoughts.
// In terms of fish 'n' chips I know ...
// In terms of fish 'n' chips I know that Fish Fins in Newtown are pretty good every night of the week!
If you can put up with the waiting. Is that still a problem there? I have not been in so long.
Sorry, I didn't read the rest properly. Maybe later, maybe not.
Waiting is waiting. In good gigs you ...
Waiting is waiting. In good gigs you have to wait to get a drink from the bar! We put up with inconvinience to recieve quality!
The waiting still is a thing with Fish ...
The waiting still is a thing with Fish Fins, and they don't have any magazines! And if you try to call your order in, it takes forever for them to answer the phone. Their corn fritters are still excellent though.
I'd also like to recommend Thorndon Fish & Chips to the people of Wellington. It's on Chaffers St opposite Chaffers New World (so, not actually in Thorndon at all) and it's the crispiest I've ever had. Yum.
I'll have to try Thorndon! Do yuo like ...
I'll have to try Thorndon! Do yuo like Aro Street???
I quite like a bit of Aro now and then.
My standard order is:
1 battered Tarakihi fillet
1 hotdog
1 pineapple ring
1/2 scoop of chips
1 donut
sometimes I like to get some oysters as well!
I love to make chip butties (with butter not marg) and use Watties tomatoe sauce and wash it all down with coke!
I don't have a car, so I am all about ...
I don't have a car, so I am all about only the Haitaitai chippery and Thorndon.
I'm not a racist but..... the best places seem to have Greek owners.
//so I am all about only the Haitaitai ...
//so I am all about only the Haitaitai chippery...
Supremo Takeaways!! They're great, brilliant value, really good quality and really quick on the service too boot!! The burgers they do are far better than the ones across the road a Bugger Wisconsin too...
I used to be a supremo man until i ...
I used to be a supremo man until i discovered Paradise Seafoods in island Bay (who are also next to a burger wisconsin....those shabby bastards always move in next to already established good burger joints) Seriously...Paradise is out of this world. At least once/twice a week I'll get a burger with a friend and drive down to sit on the beach and be a hippy bum.
//hippy bum. Bahahahaaa! Sounds ...
//hippy bum.
Bahahahaaa! Sounds like my encroaching battle with middle-age spread! Hahahahaaaa!
(slaps knees)
holy crap blink, are you me? //I ...
holy crap blink, are you me?
//I used to be a supremo man until i discovered Paradise Seafoods in island Bay
ditto - Supremo burgers were awesome (oh yeah and the blondie there is kinda hot) but then I tried Paradise Seafoods, that place also does a really damn good meal thing fish/chips/salad etc, then yeah we cruise down to the Island Bay beach sit up on the wall & watch the day roll by . . . .
I've only had fish from Supremo, but ...
I've only had fish from Supremo, but now I'm inspired to try their burgers. Although right now I am just so full of love for Lamaso Kebabs that they get all my Hataitai takeaway money.
// holy crap blink, are you me? i ...
// holy crap blink, are you me?
i dunno...but you might be my girlfriend?
or maybe you are one of the other hippys i do the burger-beach jaunt with. Maybe we could start a club.
real hard to eat those burgers with a beard though. most gross.
//Lamaso Kebabs OOOhhhh, I had one ...
//Lamaso Kebabs
OOOhhhh, I had one of those once and it was the worst kebab I've had by a long shot. Snotty teenagers, botched orders, revolting sauces, dry falafel. Don't waste your money, get a Supremo Supreme burger, same price, totally different league.
Or better still. get the number 2 bus to Kilbernie and get Summer Rolls and Stuffed Chicken Wings from The Cambodiana (by the bus stop) - and you may never want a Kebab again.
No way man, Lamaso is great! It's the ...
No way man, Lamaso is great! It's the best falafel I've had for a long time, plus the mujaver is amazing, and the veges are fresh, and the staff are super friendly. Plus, you can get bacon and avocado in your kebab!
// the best places seem to have Greek ...
// the best places seem to have Greek owners.
I also don't mean to be racist but it is because the Asians usually go for the cheaper deal, which means a lower quality fish. The Greeks however love their food too much.
I don't like the fish 'n' chip from ...
I don't like the fish 'n' chip from Brooklyn very much! Which is very sad 'cause I would like to eat them for lunch a couple of times a week!
//Unless posters include a description ...
//Unless posters include a description of the act or the genre they aren't always useful to people. Pretty pictures look cool but unless they have the relevant words they don't work effectively.
do autumn stoner put a description of their 'act' and genre on their posters?
surely this is a bit unnecessary and liable to make a poster over wordy
Good point. What I am really trying to ...
Good point. What I am really trying to say is that a poster that says:
-------------------------------
CRIMSON BART AND VENUE
November 7
(nice picture)
Salty Toffee
Pop a Pixie
Caramel Sundae
(nice picture continues)
---------------------------------
The above poster doesn't tell people very much especially if you are Joe Schmoe and you haven't heard of any of those bands. It tells people where and when the gig is and might include a price (not that that is neccessary) and probably a start time. Unless everyone knew that all acts at CRIMSON are top notch then I would prefer not to part with my money going to CRIMSON.
However if under each band a short description was included I might be tempted to check out a band if the 'style' or the description appealed to me regardless of whether CRIMSON has a good reputation or not. Having more information means that I can make a more informed choice.
-------------------------------
CRIMSON BART AND VENUE
November 7
(nice picture - maybe some American theme conveys the style of music being promoted)
Salty Toffee: Four piece Dixie with a twist, no banjo tonight!
Pop a Pixie: Dark country, malevolent vocals, encapsulating stories!
Caramel Sundae: Country hip-hop, dance 'til you drop!
(nice picture continues)
---------------------------------
Autumn Stone posters have a brief description added in 18 point for A2 and 12 point for A3 and 8 Point for A4 about the music. As the band develops a higher profile through radio play and more giggin it will not be neccessary to do this any more.
"Autumn Stone's live show should really come with an epilepsy warning"
Moments of intense rock are balanced by moments of concise beauty with music and visuals working together to tell obscurely twisted stories.
MY NAME IS BART BODEGA...
MY NAME IS BART BODEGA
I thought that you only knew how to ...
I thought that you only knew how to write in blue. I apologise for thinking so poorly of your abilities! How are Pluto at the moment BART??????
So how are a 'venue' supposed to ...
So how are a 'venue' supposed to decide what is a quality act?
What would this do too 'non-professional' bands who want to play gigs (by non-professional I mean they are not aiming for music to be their career) - are they worthless in your opinion (ie shouldn't be gigging)?
//A better rider ie Meals, bar tabs, sound guy and postering all help to make life easier and more pleasant for performers. This ensures that bands are more enthusiastic about improving their act to the satisfaction of the venue.
As far as rider goes I think it's pretty much a moot point for most bands, as a general rule of thumb we usually just get $1 off any beer we're buying from the bar...
What exactley do you mean by 'improving your act to the satisfacton of the venue'? To me this sounds like advertising speak and doesn't explain at all the concept you must be trying to get across. I think most venues don't care what a band sounds like, what their stage show is like, or how nice the band members are as long as they get people through the door buying drinks - and really thats what it comes down too.
These are all very good questions and I ...
These are all very good questions and I certainly don't know how to achieve a fair system.
I have just been alarmed by statistics that show a decline in attendance of live music over the last ten years by 4.2% per annum and that audiences attending all live acts are actually down by more than 18% compared to 1976.
Speaking to people in the street and in shops I have found that everyday people are not happy to attend live music venues unless they know the act becuase they have not enjoyed themselves having attended a gig or two in the past. The reasons that they have included are:
(Please note that these things are difficult to describe in writing and sound rather lame but try to make sense of these things)
1. Waiting too long for acts to begin
2. Being spoken poorly at by frontmen (sworn at etc and they don't mind swearing as such)
3. Bands being ridiculously loud (this is people taht actually do like loud but not LLOOUUDD!!)
4. Poor quality acts - ie out of tune, poor singing, thoughtless thrash!
What I have learned is that all people were keen to listen to new material if they knew that the sound quality and production were going to be of a high standard.
If bands can ensure that they are playing to a better standard and it might be up to venues to ensure this then the benefits to the entire industry are obvious.
Maybe audiences of the past weren't very sophisticated and were happy to watch anything!?
Keep thinking. I started this topic to get people thinking and to encourage a number of things to happen to ensure better audiences all around and therefore better conditions all around.
As for bands that want to play for fun! Lots of bands in that category do care about putting on a great show and they rehearse seriously and put on great music. As for bands that want to play for fun but can't be bothered rehearsing seriously and putting on a good show that will actually be performed in public then they shouldn't be allowed to play in a venue unless they hire it and hold a private function. If they can't afford to do that then they should play at parties!
Quality is what will help all live acts and venues perform better gigs more regularly and more easily. I don't know much else but I do know that!
Well, Well, Well! Where to ...
Well, Well, Well! Where to start.
Firstly, I'd like to know where you got your audience figures from.
I've been going to gigs for 18 years and playing at gigs for 14, and in that time the crowds have been fluid. In the late 80's there would be a regular 100/150 people at gigs, this peaked in 92 when Warners was getting up to 1000. Then came dance music and for years you'd be lucky to get 30 people. Lots of musicians got despondent, stopped playing, got jobs, had kids. Then came garage rock and bam, back to 100 people at a gig. New musicians start groups, old musicians start crawling out of the woodwork. Things are exciting. And now here you are bemoaning the fact that it's dropped a bit- well so what!
Don't forget that 1976 was a very different time, we still had the brewery sponsored pub circut that was getting bands like the Dudes and Hello sailor around the country, and into pubs.
Now, about Quality Control.
If you want quality control, it's already there. There is a system in place. If you don't like watching a young band sweating it out, trying to hold it together, playing on a knife-edge. Then don't go to a place that lets them play.
If you want to see a slick band, with good gear and even better hair. Pay your $50 and go and catch Goodshirt, or the feelers, or Goldenhorse next time they play at your local town hall.
Saying that the way I want it is the way it should be is arrogance in the extreme. Saying it should be so because a hairdresser in Lambton Quay agrees with me, doesn't make it any different.
Some people get their jolly's from only the slickest and tightest pap.
But...
Others get their jollys watching rock'n'roll that is so fragile it could fall apart at any time.
And some people like to have a night out, safe in the knowledge that they are not going to end up sharing a table with the dumb hairdresser from Lambton Quay
//If bands can ensure that they are ...
//If bands can ensure that they are playing to a better standard and it might be up to venues to ensure this then the benefits to the entire industry are obvious.
I hate to say it but to me this sounds like someone saying, 'play radio friendly commercial rock, pop or r&b or don't play live'. Honestly what do you expect people to expect from a live gig considering the general quality of muisc that ends up on our commercial radio stations?
//Maybe audiences of the past weren't very sophisticated and were happy to watch anything!?
I think it would be the other way around, older audiences had less preconceptions about what was expected out of a gig and were willing to try something new - these days most people want something which is not challenging and holds no surprises (I am refering directly to your average ZM, Edge, Kiwi listener here).
Case and point, I would have no hesitation in playing a track from Die Die Die to my mother, and through she may say it's not her cup of tea she would at least listen to it and tell me what she liked and disliked about it, play it to one of my work mates and they'd just say 'it's crap - why would anyone want to list that?'.
//As for bands that want to play for fun but can't be bothered rehearsing seriously and putting on a good show that will actually be performed in public then they shouldn't be allowed to play in a venue unless they hire it and hold a private function.
Thats sick. Thats the only way I can think of it. If they are pulling people in then who cares, if the audience (who are likley to be mostly friends) are enjoying it then does it matter. I think this is the sort of attitude which will suck all the life and creativity out of music - breeding a generation of elevator muzakians.
You also seem to equate a heavily rehearsed band as being more professional which I'd also disagree with, some of the most boring shows I have been too have been preformed note perfect to the recordings with absolutley nothing added (I'm thinking of a particular show by Smashing Pumpkins, but I've been too dozens of local gigs that have been just as uninspiring).
To be honest this is exactley the sort of attitude I have always hated - why the need to homogenise the huge spectrum of music that we have?
Fair enough comments. It is hard to get ...
Fair enough comments. It is hard to get across in writing exactly what I want to say.
I love gritty and raw. I love huge sound and I love the unexpected. I like new acts and the suspense wanting to see how they wil lturn out and how the audience will respond.
I am not talking about restriciting live venues to only playing a certain genre. I just think that it would be great if all acts could set a standard for production afterall we are talking about performing in public.
I certainly don't want to appear snobby so when I say what I would like to say I am simply stating what I would like as it is my opinion. I still think that these are issues that need to be discussed further to a broader range of people other than the meetings that have already been held.
//I am not talking about restriciting ...
//I am not talking about restriciting live venues to only playing a certain genre. I just think that it would be great if all acts could set a standard for production afterall we are talking about performing in public.
Well you're yet to actually say what you mean by 'a standard of production'. What exactley do you mean by this??
So, now you don't know what you ...
So, now you don't know what you want?
And remember, while you're sitting in meetings talking the ears off a cow, the bands are still playing.
Fuck this is pointless.
You know that if this was a world where a band couldn't play loud-it would be a world without the Gordons/Bailter Space, Loves Ugly Children, Led Zepplin.
If this was a world where you HAD to sing in perfect pitch-it would be a world without Billy Bragg, Will Oldham, Talking Heads, Bob Dylan etc,etc (this list is a very long one, suffice to say it includes nearly every artist who is in some way interesting).
If this was a world where you had to play "proper chords" in a "balanced" way-it would be a world without Sonic Youth, The Birthday Party, the Dead C, Birchville Cat Motel etc,etc..(once again a very long list)
I recently sat down and watched the Hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy (the BBC one) and you seem to be proposing that we all put ourselve on the "b-ark" with the telephone sanitisers.
Well, fuck that.
Kids, strap on your guitars, de-tune them, rip the cones in your speakers, swear at everybody-do whatever you have to do to express yourself- and if James McLeay turns up at the door-charge him quadruple.
Wooo! Yeah!...
Wooo! Yeah!
amen...
amen
LOL @ Me for not always being clear ...
LOL @ Me for not always being clear regarding my intentions.
It is easy for the real issues in these topics to get lost.
Yes bands are playing at the moment ! Maybe it's like the scenario that the world will be consumed by the sun one day but not in our life times so we'll let other people worry in the future. It is the same issue with pollution and global warming. The worst effects aren't really going to happen in our lifetimes so we don't make enough positive changes!
I know what I would like to happen myself but don't know how reasonable what I want is for others or how easily implemented those ideas are. That is why it is good to get a feel from lots of people what they think. I would hate to lose venues altogether and have to find new places again to play like Burger King!
An interesting thing is that someone that has been playing an instrument for 3 weeks can play with musicality or with passion. They could even sound convincing provided that they play witihn their capabilities. That is playing quality - playng within your means and capabilities.
* I am happy to pay a lot of money for ...
* I am happy to pay a lot of money for gigs that I am interested in attending so wouldn't be offended if I was charged extra at your guigs. I want bands to do well when they play and if I can make a batter contribution so be it. Also I am well known for shouting drinks for bands at gigs that I attend.
Maybe the Quality Control thing is far from perfect and certainly not ideal. Perhaps other kinds of venues need to be established to grow art music or more alternative spaces created.
My intention is not to upset people.
I don't want to see live venues close and want to do something that can grow the live music scene. I believe that after a time when the general public can appreciate that attending live gigs is enjoyable and worthwhile that eventually all kinds of music can be fostered but at the moment there is an issue with declining punters and confidence of venue owners and if these issues aren't disccussed properly and acted upon we may not have many places available to play in.
With a population increase of nearly 800,000 people in 20 years and more people 'going out' than ever before with higher disposable incomes there are issues to be addressed when the live music scene has not increased at a comparable rate.
The issue is far more complex than people having alternative activities and forms of entertainment to pursue. It is about live music not competing actively enough against all other forms of entertainment and being quickly left behind. So that now we have a situation where bands play to smaller audiences and venues are disheartened, threatening to close or re-evaluate the type of business they run.
My quality control idea is really just a quick fix that may be a start to reassuring venues that live music can be a lucrative venture and possibly (over time) encourage new kinds of establishments to open. If we can revitalise the live music scene and promote it, strengthen it etc then everyone will benefit.
My talk about riders etc is just a very small issue compared to regrowing an entire industry (and just my way of trying to gain support from bands - especially those that may be thinking that I am singling them out!) As I have said everything discussed here (aorund a fairly complex set of issues) is too simplified and difficult to get the context.
So, please don't feel alienated by me ot this idea.
The issues are:
- declining audiences
- dissatisfied venue owners
There must be ways of rectifying these issues. More ideas/criticism welcome!
//Also I am well known for shouting ...
//Also I am well known for shouting drinks for bands at gigs that I attend.
Your name is on the door for our next gig.
Emerald Green
The Tuts
Musche
19th August @ Edens
Goodness knows why I am awake at 3.00am ...
Goodness knows why I am awake at 3.00am but what the hey! Thnaks guys. If I happen to be in Auckland I would love to catch you guys. Are you coming to Wellington again soon?
If you would like to send me an EP (I don't mind paying for it) I would be happy to play your music on my new radio show which begins in Wellington on Tuesday next week.
Regards,
Tane
this thread makes no sense from a chch ...
this thread makes no sense from a chch point of view - audience numbers have done nothing but increase for the last 5 years or so (after the dance-music related decline of the 'gathering' years...)
[ http://thebigcity.co.nz ]
Statistics claiming 'declining ...
Statistics claiming 'declining audiences' aren't going to make better musicians out of us. Why is the goal of being in a band necessarily to increase audience attendance? It's not really the key motivator, is it- it's a side-effect you may get to enjoy when a whole bunch of other variables start working together in your favour, but musicians are musicians, music is music, and business is business. I think it's healthy for a band to take stock, look at themselves critically etc. but only if the end result brings them closer to their goals, artistic, commercial or otherwise.
I like what dragstrip said about ripping speaker cones too, that was classic.
I suppose it isn't neccessarily a band ...
I suppose it isn't neccessarily a band goal to attract an audience. But it is a bit rude to use 'public' venues without considering the business where you are playing. It is different if you pay to play and the venue is just a place for your private function. As I have said I just don't want to see closing venues!
//Goodness knows why I am awake at ...
//Goodness knows why I am awake at 3.00am but what the hey! Thnaks guys. If I happen to be in Auckland I would love to catch you guys. Are you coming to Wellington again soon?
If you would like to send me an EP (I don't mind paying for it) I would be happy to play your music on my new radio show which begins in Wellington on Tuesday next week.
Regards,
Tane
No plans to do a gig in Welly at the moment.... did you go see us when we were there in May?
I'll send you a cd.
Can you mail me my beer?
[ http://www.emeraldgreen.orcon.net.nz ]
I didn't see you in Wellington. My ...
I didn't see you in Wellington.
My address is:
Tane McLeay
c/o Munt FM
PO Box 756
Wellington
I have had a listen on your site and look forward to hearing some more.
Thanks,
Tane
// 4. Speak respectfully to your ...
// 4. Speak respectfully to your audience. Very few people actually like being spoken to in the way that NZ bands traditionally speak.
how do bands traditionally speak to me and how would i like them to?
I don't think that I have ever written ...
I don't think that I have ever written in a forum the way that many bands speak at me! When I say me I mean that collectively as in - the audience that I happened to be a part of.
//2. Having stricter control on the ...
//2. Having stricter control on the standard of performance.
Does this really work?
Indigo have a screening process in place, but does that make it a better venue? NO. It makes it a venue that has less gigs and more "24 hour party people" -'DJ-plays-the-hits-type things.
Bodega sort of used to, when Warren was booking. In that you had to prove yourself on a Wednesday to be allowed to book a Friday. Did that work? No, it drove people to other places. Was it a coincidence that the Cross was doing well then? Is it a coincidence that Valve is doing well now? The bands go where they can get gigs, and not where there is some "arbiter of style" controlling who can and cannot play.
And look at Bodega now, I mean they hardly have any gigs at all anymore.
If a venue says to a band "prove to me that you're worthy of playing in our prestigious venue", the bands tend to get on the phone and call a venue that says "sure, is Saturday the 15th O.K?"
when new bodega first opened they ...
when new bodega first opened they cancelled a show of mine (two weeks out!!) that i had booked in three months earlier because of their new policy "we don't give saturday nights to local bands anymore". That one phone call made me think twice before i called them in the future, i used to do all my shows at Bodega until i was given that bullshit excuse, then maybe only 5% of shows i promoted were at Bodega. I think they realised within about 3 months that they couldn't keep up that policy.
At least they told you. I heard a story ...
At least they told you. I heard a story once about a band arriving from Auckland to find that their gig had been cancelled and re-booked.
haha...bodega has double booked shows ...
haha...bodega has double booked shows I've been involved with on at least 4 occasions.
I've turned up with bands for a ...
I've turned up with bands for a soundcheck only to wonder who the fuck was on stage doing our soundcheck!
If Bodega is "hardly having gigs ...
If Bodega is "hardly having gigs anymore" that would indicate that there current Entertainment Policy is more lucrative, surely?Or alternatly the past scene was unworkable due to the "Artists" attitudes/performance/Pulling power? Thats not a dig Dave/Ian just an observation from outside Wellington.
Clearly the "taste" of the public has changed,(or been changed for them), and any clown changing slabs of vinyl is considered "Live Entertainment".
How many venues now even cater to a proper set-up space/stage? Um, proper as in a Band.
Its certainly not the way Public Houses are redesigned/ constructed in my opinion.
Here in Christchurch one of the main Establishments for 100% Original music recentley changed its policy (new owners/management), and pretty much the ghist was what you indicated happened at Bodega. I took it as first a pissoff, then a challange, the week after we played the owner was on the phone to re-book us...
Whilst the driving factor is clearly what goes over the Bar, the ease at which the Band does there thing cannot, or should not, be underestimated.
I would offer the following as "selling points" to any prospective Employer/Band Hirer;
# Past history at comperable venues
# What the band members have done
# Your own PA and Soundman
# What advertising and Radio play you can secure
# Flexibility re: $charge ie: 1st night ( and 1st night only) discounted
# Quality Recording of what you do, are up too.
# Your PR bullshit, gig posters. Bar owners tend to like shiny things.
If you have to use a "Support Act", be confident in your selection, all the above is next to worthless if the clowns you get in are rubbish.
I realise this approach or ideas require some level of organization and financial input/ outlay but if your passionate and think you have something you wish to present to the wider community then surely the work can be put in.
This does not solve the dearth of Venues prepared to accomodate Live, Original music in a collaborative and mutually benefical business relationship, however until the General standard of what musicians are collectivally offering needs to be sorted, has its house in order before its all the old "its the Venues fault" stories come out.
I'd like to say I am making this up but last weekend an All-Ages gig was staged at a local Church featuring 4 "up and coming" young Punky/Pop bands. One of these bands was called the FuckStains, who not surprizingly where pulled from the line up whence the Elders found out who their House of Worship was hosting. This same band then run into problems with there Advertising and a prominent NZ Touring band... Really a bit of commonsense, or at least the ability to comprehend what hosting Agents may require is beneficial to us all.
// that would indicate that there ...
// that would indicate that there current Entertainment Policy is more lucrative,
'fraid not.
I believe that ythe attitude "Natural ...
I believe that ythe attitude "Natural Selection will sort bands out" is one of the prime causes of declining audiences.
Everytime that there is a poor act it discourages people from attending other live acts (new acts in particular). Everytime someone is alienated from the live music scene it makes it harder for everyone to attract a crowd.
Some venues are getting so desperate for patrons that they either charge a room hire or accept any act in the hope that it will work out.
There does actually need to be some preliminary screening to ensure that this situation is reversed.
Also the other problem with using natural selection to determine what audiences should see is that there are too many bands compared to venues for this method to actually work. As I say every time that there is a poor quality act the less people will be inclined to go.
I know a lot of people that don't see new bands at Indigo or Valve at all any more becuase large numbers of groups shouldn't be on stage. This situation is making it incredibly hard for bands touring from other parts of the country and small international acts who are now finding it more difficult than ever to make a profit touring NZ unless they play in alternative venues such as Resorts and Casinos!
This situation is major and will see the closure of more venues if bands don't realise what is happening and more importantly if venue owners don't realise what is happening.
As venue owners become more disillusioned and mainstream bars continue to thrive bands must either go to where the audiences are or work with venues to ensure that live music venues are just as enjoyable to visit as a mainstream club.
Now if we take that natural selection idea again and take a poor originals music act to Jetbar on Courtenay Place - they will lose patronage , but only tempoarily becuase they won't allow that band to play again - but more importantly thee won't allow any originals band back - EVER!! Poor acts coupled with low standards from venues are the main cause of declining audience numbers!
// I believe that ythe attitude ...
// I believe that ythe attitude "Natural Selection will sort bands out" is one of the prime causes of declining audiences.
where are these declining audiences? Seriously?
This really does come across as some bands whining that people aren't coming to those shows. Don't blame people, there is probably a reason for it. I would be very hesitant to back you on any "quality control" scheme you might try to entail. It sounds like nazi supremacy to me. Are you going to stage rockquest type competitions where bands must prove their song writing ability along with stage banter and guitar solo skills before being allowed to play.
I dont want to engage in another battle with you dude, just have to agree to disagree again. I think your heart is in the right place, but your quality control scheme is bollocks. People have discerning tastes...perhaps they won't like placebo/smashing pumpkins rock no matter how you package it or how slick the performance is.