he just has a really good tan.

the guy that
drummed for
david kilgour
earl for
the chills
bad brains

Fair enough, but put the "brown people" phrase aside and I don't see it as such an unreasonable question.

Paraphrase: when I was in NZ, people like me weren't well represented. Looking from outside NZ it seems to have changed. Has it? If so, what?

I like My Dad Bill's response best.

..bah, I'm not finished yet..

Another thing - at any given moment it's pretty easy to describe "indie" as a particular subset of bands, but really "alternative" covers a wide variety of genres. In fact I'd suggest it could best be described as anything that's not hiphop/r&b or pop/rock. So really the question's almost like asking "since when did brown people start making music that's not hiphop?".

// However, indie has never really had any kind of strong racial identity except that it just happened to be embraced by skinny white guys - most notably native brits.

"Young bones groan and the rocks below say throw your white body down."
From "Shakespeare's Sister" by The Smiths.

Indie rock isn't something that the universe created that was later embrace by skinny white guys - skinny white guys made indie music. It's part of their cultural heritage and it's naive to pretend that it's somehow less valid as a form of racial art than hip-hop is to darker-skinned people.

he didn't say 'indie' he said 'alternative'
and jimi hendrix is responsible as anyone for that genre

still can't believe that robyn said:

//Indie rock isn't something that the universe created that was later embrace by skinny white guys - skinny white guys made indie music.

and noone takes any issue with this. any type of rock by definitinion's roots can be traced back to the black man, in fact there's fuck all music ever -with a beat, wthat was invented by the white man. yet the origins of indie rock as given here are undersunned whiteboys with depressing lives playing blacks man's rock lacklusterly and with little soul.

everything traces back to the black rock n roll artists...example:
the checks, who listen to the beatles, who are in turn influenced (and or obsessed) with black rock n roll/motown-(who which some of the checks also listen to) etc etc

//I wonder if there are any stats about say the rates of depression that are broken up by race or ethnicity - Limegreen?

Mandy. This is a bit of a mixed-bag. i.e., I found some stuff but it's not too straightforward.

http://www.gpresearch.auckland.ac.nz/Depression.htm
-no difference between european and maori
BUT
-sample recruited from GPs (so any difference in GP attending by ethnicity messes the sample something chronic)

http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1177/494/
-this one shows a link between damp housing and higher incidence of maternal depression in Pacific Island community

http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/0/06f70fbb2015d6efcc256bb5000cc0bc?OpenDo...
-Maori youth suicide rate double Pakeha
-hosptilisation for attempted suicide similar to pakeha...

These kind of point to depression being worse in non-pakeha groups (especially because low SES is also predictive of greater incidence of depression).

And not really related, but something I've seen before for anyone who believes that prison is a 'deterrent'
http://www.corrections.govt.nz/public/pdf/research/nationalstudy/nationa...
"The results indicate a markedly elevated rate of mental disorder over that in
the general community. This is especially so for substance misuse, but also
strongly for psychotic illnesses, major depression, bipolar disorder, OCD and
PTSD."
So it's more of a de-facto psychiatric ward than a 'deterrent'.

ah, as brown as the legnth of a piece of string...
im not interested in any debate, i just think its funny that he thinks that kody and ruban are "brown people"

Hey, I'm absolutely keen to address real discrimination and health, education, social and domestic problems that are markedly more prevalent in some ethnic minorities. But in my experience discrimination - or even the distinction - doesn't exist in the kiwi indie music scene, at least not now. I've no doubt you've encountered discrimination in NZ, but my question was did you get discriminated against because brown-skinned people weren't supposed to be playing alternative music?

//i dunno if that's relevant anymore. might have been in the past, perhaps? but now people aren't so surprised to see Maori or Polynesian people playing in bands that are indie or alternative.

I think maybe it's a little bit like say how male nurses were considered to be a rarity 20 years ago - no one (well I hope no one - except for maybe in the horrible rockquest forums) is saying that Maori or Polynesian people can't play indie rock, or that they don't play it as well, just that it seems like indie rockers are more often white. I'll freely admit to being suprised for example that the singer in Bloc Party was black.

yep no i think miss redress has points. And i think there is a point in this. ANd of course us middle class liberal white/(with a bit o' brown innus) kids don't want to be seen enforcing or recognising stereotypes. But like it or not, they exist, all over the world. So as an actuality, most (i dunno how to generalise this... ) Black people? polynesians, maori, carribeans ARE into hip-hop, soul, funk, reggae and somehow they have an inherant and instinctive RHYTHM that makes them FUckin GOOD at it. Its just true. um, i thought it was strange that TV on the radio was three black guys and a white guy. BUT as someone else has mentioned, then i thought of Bad Brains and the same kinda scene. So as much as you can generalise, there are always exceptions. O man i bet this one's gonna get retorts. pfft.

//To just forget about it and buy into the "we're all kiwis" routine is bullshit.This is typical homogenised crap. I'm saying "Notice the difference" ... stand out ... be uncomfortable ...it's empowering.

dotdash, I know I overreacted to start off with, and believe me, it was a revelation to me that the white/brown thing is a "thing" to a bunch of people. Maybe that's just my age, maybe it's to do with my upbringing, where Maori faces (just) outnumbered pakeha faces in my class (and the Maori kids didn't believe me when I told them my ancestry, except for one girl that turned out to be a third cousin). So most likely I've been horribly naive.

Also given that you've suffered discrimination in the past, specifically to do with your music, it was stupid of me to overreact at the start based on incorrect assumptions. Again a revelation, I'm genuinely interested to know more. But I'm pretty fucking sick of being made to feel like I'm the problem, you having your little bonding peptalk with the brown kid (sorry reddress, this is in no way directed at you) in the room and political grandstanding because the rest of us are just PC-dribbling squeamish honkies who don't know shit about discrimination. Most notably, as far as typical homogenised crap goes, why is it that it's not homogenisation when brown boys start making whitey music, but it is when I didn't notice?

//This must be "reverse racism" ....who's the minority here

Not wanting to intrude on this hugly thought provoking discussion but just wanted to find out exactley what this 'reverse racisim' that you refer to is? Racisim has nothing to with minorities (well often it does but it's not integral to the actual issue)...