I kind of mentioned this in another thread, but I think it deserves one to call it's own...
So which do you think is better, and why?
I have a feeling all the people who had lessons will say lessons, and all the self-taught people will say self-taught....
I had about five years of guitar lessons (predominantly with Johnny Fleury), and I'm glad I did them. I'm also glad I stopped when I did, because it allowed me to develop my own style rather than try and emulate others.
I'm learning the piano from scratch this year, and I believe that having a teacher to guide me has meant I have a much better appreciation of the instrument than I would have had if I'd just learnt to bang out a few chords under my own steam.
Conversely, I also did some singing lessons with several Auckland teachers, and in retrospect I don't think they helped me whatsoever. If anything, one in particular made me do all sorts of strange stuff that actually hindered me until I figured out that I didn't have to do it.
That said, I'm looking for a reputable singing teacher in Auckland now, to learn classical techniques with........
The simple fact is that if you are going to communicate your ideas to other musicians, having a common language can speed things up immensely in the practice room. Instead of saying "play that chord, you know the one you did before, not that one, the other one, down the end of the neck, nah before that....." etc, you can go "Let's try it with an F# minor chord" and everyone knows what you're talking about.
The romantic notion that having no understanding of the conventions of music meaning you will create something wondrous and outside of all genres seems to be counter-productive. In order to break the rules, it's best to know them first.
Your thoughts?
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both good...
both good
in a nutshell right....
in a nutshell right.
Both have their worth - I think it's ...
Both have their worth - I think it's important to get guidance on the "language" of the instrument, techniques to maximise the use of arm & finger muscles, breathing techniques, armpit massage etc (whatever the instrument) so you can play as efficiently and comfortably as possible - scales etc so you can have lots of tricks up your sleeve and tools to innovate with.
I think it's more important for a student to discover their own 'voice' and be as personally creative and innovative as possible.
Otherwise you become a bit of a clone - too much reliance on lessons can curb your imagination and you can lose your inspiration for why you took up the iunstrument in the first place.
As with all things, a healthy balance eh wot old boy.
so both good...
so
both good
just thought I'd expand on it a little ...
just thought I'd expand on it a little ... ya know..
but yes,
both
good
eh
wot
self taught cos you never know the ...
self taught cos you never know the person teaching you the stuff might not know shit. Anyway this comes around to different learning techniques, Im a hands-on learner rather than a listening learner. Practical rather than Theory.
Interesting post this one. Hmmmm, well, ...
Interesting post this one. Hmmmm, well, essentially I'm self taught, however at important times I've had a few lessons from people who set me in the right direction on some technique tips (cheers Mr Bryany, Kenny Pearson R.I.P., and Rangi Hadfield). All of this happened before I was 16 so I kinda had a bit of a foundation to work upon. Then as I started playing 'professionally' (for want of a better term), it became more self focussed, not so much on technique but sound, style, and the ability to communicate musically in a band environment. And then as the years has progressed, I find that if there's something I'm interested in, I'll ask the person about it, have a korero, and then work it into my established style of playing. It depends a bit on a couple of factors I reckon;
a) what constitutes a lesson? some of the best lessons learnt have been dead drunk chatting to another bassie at a bar, or sometimes you I'll learn about my instrument and it's place in the musical sphere by talking to a muso who plays another instrument.
b) lessons will usually have beneficial elements (like an analyst you need to take it all with a 'grain of salt'), but lessons don't necessarily teach a musician how to play, as in, how to be part of a functioning and communicative group, I didn't learn alladat kinda stuff until I began gigging constantly.
A very interesting topic, I look forward to seeing what other people think.
Cher.
cher was self taught...
cher was
self taught
im teaching myself piano , and im just ...
im teaching myself piano , and im just teaching myself to read music iswel , I would very much like to get taught.
I am self taught and I'm going to say ...
I am self taught and I'm going to say lessons.
Not everyone will have the drive to teach themselves a musical instrument and I figure anyone who does is going benefit even more from having lessons. Just because someone is getting lessons it doesnt mean they can't teach themselves at the same time.
I figure if you are teaching yourself to play and you get lessons aswell then you are getting twice the benefit, not to mention having someone there to answer the questions you might have, and an incentive to practice - at the moment whether I practice or not comes down to how motivated Im feeling, if I were spending money on lessons you can be sure I'd be putting in the time to make the most of it - I can't really see a bad side to having someone with more knowledge than you helping you learn.
Sure theres always a chance you could end up with a lemon instructor, but thats really a different arguement altogether.
With that said, I'd be interested in seeing some recommendations on both good guitar instructors for someone of intermediate ability, and a good singing teacher for someone with no singing talent at all.
I think lessons too, I've heard from a ...
I think lessons too, I've heard from a number of people who play, and play well, but who also wish they'd had lessons, Lessons help you to understand the basics and with a good understanding of the basics you can build on it, also by learning with another musican who's also a teacher you get the benifit of being able to ask questions at times when you need to understand how or why something works this way or that way. I don't think it puts a stop to people being creative. I for a fact that 99% of all the top musos from bands to classical practice every day and still swap notes on how to play this or how to play that .. they continue to learn from others ...!!
I think that a balance between the two ...
I think that a balance between the two is best, i teach guitar full time but never took lessons myself, sure i got shown the odd thing here and there by others but i'm a self taught guitarist/teacher. I provide
free online lessons also for anyone wanting to learn new stuff at home, anyone intersested can click on the "Music teachers" page at...
[ http://www.koretzmusic.com ]
I agree, both. I was teaching myself ...
I agree, both.
I was teaching myself guitar for a year so i learnt all the basics chords etc, then i decided to have lessons and so i started classical guitar. On the first two lessons i managed to get an intermediate song down pat, and the guitar teacher said that hes never seen anything like...
(For real, although the only reason i said this was cos i feel really proud about it lol.)
Lessons absolutley, with a strong ...
Lessons absolutley, with a strong component of said lessons being Theory.
Everyones welcome to play "from the heart" just dont moan when you never get paid.
If your seriously considering Music as Career, then failure to find constructive instruction and develop your reading and writing skills can only be described as calamitous.
I think this "idea" that Lessons/Instruction/Theory will destroy your creativity is one of the most harmful myths doing the rounds.
Heres an exercise, put in one column those "Name" Musicians who have no theory background and in the column the ones who do.
Another task would be to think of available work for the schooled vs the self taught.
Would you choose to not learn reading and writing English?
In fact it beggars belief that anyone can suggest Not getting Lessons.
How about advocating Not practising?
How about buying Rubbish Gear?
It makes about as much sense.
Im not suggesting everyone enlist in the School Of Rock, (far from it), just a recco that we are all in a limited market and the self-contained Band as cash cow simply dosnt apply in NZ.
The worst day getting paid to play Bass is still better than the best day in the Factory.
Musically I get paid for, being on time, in time, having good gear, Composing, Arranging, Writing Charts, Sessioning, and Gigs. If I had'nt of had years of serious lessons Im doing a great dis-service to all and sundry to proclaim that i'd be doing what i do now by the merit of my own skills. Everyday im thankful for my teacher, Ive thanked him on every album Ive made, and I continued Paying to see him "years" after i needed too because he was a great measuring stick and a continual source of Musical Improvment and Inspiration. Most work is from Reliability than from Flash and a major component is Time, or how much/little do you waste.Strong Theoritical Background is a huge timesaver.
Ive used a lot of Horn Players, they all read, they all had lessons, and Im confident of throwing them in because those skills almost certainly guarntee a "Level of Performance" and also a Passion for their chosen Instrument to want to learn it "in depth".
I realise a lot of this wont apply for the casual, the lazy, the part-timer, its just like anything really If you got the love for it, surely you want to learn/embrace/try as many avenues as possible?
Where are the Shit Teachers?
Ive heard a lot of Crap Players, not many of them pass themselves off as schooled though.
Lessons/Organized Practise time/ Theory/ Ensemble Playing/ Ear training/ Transcribe.
Make time for each and things will happen for you.
Agreed. Lessons are part of a bigger ...
Agreed. Lessons are part of a bigger holistic picture to learning to play, but in my opinion lessons should really be the cornerstone. I don't think musicians should ever get lazy in looking for new material or trying new things either.
Self teaching is definitely a good thing alongside lessons. While I was doing a little teaching I found the one thing the kids weren't able to get was ear training as I only had half an hour with them and there was an expectation that you had to go over warm up exercises something the student had already learnt and something new. As a kid I wore out lots of tapes stealing off everything from Judas Priest to Steve Vai to Simon and Garfunkel, Django Reinhardt, Chet Atkins... all manner of stuff- anything I could find with a guitar in it. ear training is kind of a necessity as it gives you a knowing of things and allows you to just jump in there and jam. The theory side of things gives you an understanding of why something works. they are two sides of a coin. Teaching does not have to be about theory but in my opinion a balance between the two is the way to go.
that said being self taught does not necessarily preclude you from that info when you consider the amount of good guitar mags out there.
Incoherent ramble over. off to get some sleep.
I don't think I am 'Self-taught'- My ...
I don't think I am 'Self-taught'- My mum showed me the first few open chords (except F and B which were too hard), then I kind of started looking for more info on my own steam. I got a tape from the library with an instruction book, then I practised and practised untill my fingertips were numb from pain. I was learning tons from watching music videos, and reading 'guitar player' and following the exercises on the back pages. I got another tape & book called 'Star Guitar' by Wolf Marshall, and learned every lick on the tape note perfect. Back then I was never happy untill it sounded absolutely perfect, and had a ritualistic practise schedule. The more I learnt, the more I wanted to learn, and the more I experimented, and the more I wanted to play.
So I never learnt from an actual teacher, but I wouldn't say I was going entirely by feel either.
I've been playing drums for nine years ...
I've been playing drums for nine years without a single lesson... and I still absolutely suck. It doesn't bother me, because I play for fun (mine that is, not my neighbours') in my own time and harbour no desire to be the next Tom Larkin. However for people who do take their music - or any pursuit - seriously, I'd say that a few lessons are essential, and will help them to be pointed in the right direction. I think some people are too hung up on wanting to be "a natural" and will forge ahead without listening to advice, which is unfortunate. A little help can go a long way.