EML is proud to make available for any musician / band the chance to finance their recording. Many artists just don’t have the ready cash to pay for recording, so we have put together a lending package that is specifically designed to provide access to Wellington’s Marmalade Audio! Once you have a recording, it gives you something to sell at shows, distribute, raise your profile or release an album.
(Please note, this is an excellent solution if you are wanting to become recorded, AND do not have use of an overdraft, savings etc. EML does not encourage personal debt, however does support you in seeing if playing music professionally is in fact your path)
Also, if you have any interest in talking to us regarding:
- EML Record Label
- Music Distribution (ie taking your CD out to the world)
- Profiling your music on the site etc -
Then send us an email at office@EMLOnline.biz
Thanks! Look forward to hearing from you.
Stu
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Just an add on - this will be available ...
Just an add on - this will be available throughout the country - the link below is the Wellington flier.
[ external link ]
You seem to have left out the small ...
You seem to have left out the small print. Like what interest there is? how long is credit extended? what are the minimum repayments? What stops you from taking possesion of items offered as security?
Also..
//I/We hereby declare that the information provided is true and correct and I agree to you arranging a budget analysis and chattel valuation, the cost of which will be added to my loan.
How much does one of these cost?
Be carefull kids, it looks like a scam!
Hey there, No, this is not scam - ...
Hey there,
No, this is not scam - don't be close minded. read the words - this is set up ONLY IF PEOPLE WANT it, and if they don't have savings or other options. The application (which is online) is just that, an application. The terms and repayments are set - as you will read in the flier. $35 / week for 12 months - for a total of $1,200 studio time up front.
Comparables for a 2nd Tier lender offering a $1,200 loan over a 12-month period:
NZ Loans - $39.01 pw (could not see any other hidden costs)
Credit Express - $30.88 pw excluding financing for booking and registrations cost
Euro Finance - $33.00 pw excluding financing for booking and registrations cost
Aztec Finance – $35.50 pw excluding financing for booking and registrations cost
Comparables for a 1st Tier lender offering a $1,200 loan over a 12-month period
ANZ – $28.87 pw (incl $175 application fee)
BNZ - $27.08 pw (Incl $100 application fee)
Wpac - $28.38 pw (incl $150 application fee)
National - $28.18 pw (incl $150 application fee)
ASB - $35.52 pw (incl $500 application fee – I’m sure this would be negotiable?)
As shown above we are using an industry norm in terms of repayments and in comparison to the above we may even be a little better off than some (also only about a $10 difference between a 1st tier and 2nd tier lender).
I hope this clarifies things. There's nothing to hide - I'm a muso myself and thought that there is a need to help those with fantastic talent that just can't get to the next level..
Stu
So that works out at... Total cost ...
So that works out at...
Total cost of Finance.
You=$1850 (not including credit check and chattel valuation)
Anz=$1676.24
Westpac=$1508.16
National=$1615.36
Which makes you dearer than a bank by up to $342, and comparable or more expensive than the second tier guys. So what's your selling point? That your are a musician and therefore more trustworthy than a second tier lender who's set up shop next to WINZ in Porrirua?
*chuckle* Thanks for your ...
*chuckle* Thanks for your question.
Selling point is that it is fairly easy to get a loan, pretty much irrelevant of credit issues. Other than that let em be very clear, if people have other ways to pay for their recording - I'm the first person to recommend it.
This is just an option - not the best, but as far as I'm concerned (and quite a number of musos) - it's a great option to have.
;-)
So then you are exactly like the ...
So then you are exactly like the loanshark who opens next to a WINZ in that you are profiting off peoples poor credit history.
What happens when people miss a ...
What happens when people miss a payment, as people with poor credit so often do? Do you inflict financial penalties that incrue daily? So that the loan becomes so unmanagable that you default on it and seize all the bands gear, and I assume the master tapes from the studio? Or do you just send the boys round?
That's another question, Do you claim ownership of mastertapes untill the loans paid off?
What I'm saying is publish your small print, I'm pretty sure the Consumers Institute would have something to say about it being absent? And without it, how is anybody supposed to make an informed decision without supplying you with their bankaccount details, date of birth, address, etc etc, which by then the right to have thoses details kept private and not disclosed by you to whoever you want has been signed away.
I'm glad that you fit the role of ...
I'm glad that you fit the role of "looking out for the rest".
Musicians hold ownership over all their musical bits and pieces created in the recording studios. As far as the studio is concerned, they have been paid in full - in advance - so they have no issues of course.
You seem to be missing a major point - this is an option. If people can't afford $35 / week for 12 months (or between a band) then this would be a very silly option - and I think you know that.
What EML gets out of the deal from the lender is a referal fee - and only if the loan application is accepted. Who exactly is it that you are trying to defend, or have you yourself been "conned" into a "loan shark" and had your car reposed...?
There is no preying on anyone, not sure what else needs to be said? Ask yourself how many people you know who want to record but can't due to not having any ready cash. Then ask, out of those people, who would have enough to put it on their credit card or overdraft? This is making things easier for people who are serious about creating an excellent product. If they can't find $35 / week and they are still serious, they'll find another way.
Bottom line is, if someone reads this thread and is inspired to find the money for recording via a different channel - then my work here is done. It's about the music - not about loan sharks or scams. Open your eyes - not all people are corrupt.
I not setting out on any particular ...
I not setting out on any particular venture, and I've not been ripped off by a loan shark, but I have known people who have - and had their lives destroyed. I'm just asking you to supply the fine print so that people can make an informed decision. Your constant hedgeing of this issue is making you look dodge, I'm saying if you're not dodgy then front up with the details to prove it. Untill then I stand by my comment that it looks to me like you're setting out to profit from those who can't afford it.
Oh, and in answer to your question, I don't know any musicians who aren't recoucsfull enough to get '4 or 5 demo recordings' together. I know plenty who can't afford to get an albums worth of high quality stuff together, but that's not what you're offering.
// I'm glad to see you fit the role ...
// I'm glad to see you fit the role of...
¿What's this "fit the role of" stuff?
Have you been reading "motivate your business" type books? Sounds like it.
....fit the role of.....ha...ha....ha...ha..ha.ha
It is interesting reading through some ...
It is interesting reading through some of your other posts, such as:
"Nice try, but giving them foreign aid to set up the means to exploit their own resources will keep the income from said ventures onshore. Allowing a succession of capitalists to march in and "exploit" them only serves to funnel any economic gains offshore and back into the capitalists coffers."
It looks like you're the resident "doom and gloom" muso here. Nice to meet you ;-)
Nice try. Even taken out of it's ...
Nice try.
Even taken out of it's context there is nothing remotely "doom and gloom" about that, unless you're a capitalist looking to exploit the natural resources of a poor, third world, nation. And if you are then Fuck Ya, What do you care, you already know that peolpe with views like that think you're despicable, and you carry on anyway, who's gonna stop you.
Thanks for making this an interesting ...
Thanks for making this an interesting afternoon my friend. No, I'm not a Capitalist looking to take advantage of 3rd World Countries. I also agree that I shouldn't have noted it out of context.
Any Terms and Conditions that are not listed on the online apllication form itself are discussed before any formal documentation is signed. The application could be viewed more as a "voicing of interest" if that makes you feel better.
Do you frequent Open mic nights of any kind in Wellington by the way?
//Do you frequent Open mic nights of ...
//Do you frequent Open mic nights of any kind in Wellington by the way?
Now what exactly is that supposed to mean?
It's a question.. I am somethings at ...
It's a question.. I am somethings at the Blue Note, and a friend of mine foes to the Acoustic Lounge a lot. I'm curious is all. I used to host an open mic night in Kapiti.
Damn you're touchy ;-)
BTW - I saw on your profile you are ...
BTW - I saw on your profile you are Wellington based. EML is gaining a lot of market research through the open mic nights too.
See, there are such things as innocent questions ;-)
Have a great rest-of-day.
I like your site by the way - and also ...
I like your site by the way - and also see a Blue Note notice. It would appear that we are on the same side...
The bluenote thing has nothing to do ...
The bluenote thing has nothing to do with open mic nights, it's more about the fact that the lions test is on in town that night and that was the only venue I could get that wasn't shutting down for the Rugby.
About open mic nights, I see them as a haven for the no-hopers, the people that can't book a gig, the people that aren't sure about anything. They are also a good place to hear shocking songwriting. That's why I asked what you meant. Cos in some cicles that's what you would have meant. I would suggest that open mic nights at the bluenote are perhaps the worst place to get valid market research on nz musicians.
Are you Stu Dunn?
Yes I am. I see open mic nights as a ...
Yes I am.
I see open mic nights as a way of testing new material, obtaining a different perspective - and sometimes excellent jamming sessions with other musicians.
Anyway, thanks for your feedback.
Stu
Thank god for dragstrip. :D There are ...
Thank god for dragstrip. :D There are numerous ways to get enough $$ for a demo recording. And if you are a muso in welly then get in touch with other musos and build up relationships. Because someone is bound to have a place to record free or cheaply. And when you want to make a higher quality recording, an EP, etc, then make sure you are confident in your music. Because if you believe that your music is actually worth recording professionally, then its worth getting the $$.
But that does seem like a bit of a dodge deal. Thanks for pointing out the flaws Dragstrip.
[ http://booze.at/knifeparty ]
//then make sure you are confident in ...
//then make sure you are confident in your music. Because if you believe that your music is actually worth recording professionally, then its worth getting the $$.//
Thats all you need, whats all this shit about having a large enough fanbase and a label, if you believe in it enough then getting a loan out isn't that big a deal...
Thanks again for your feedback. The ...
Thanks again for your feedback.
The main aim to to help musicians who are serious about recording. Hence in Wellington, rather than focusing on the lower price / lower end studios, we are please to offer Marmarlade Audio. In Auckland we are talking with (and hopefully confirm) York St Recording Studio.
The reason I am passing this on is that the intention is for a band etc to be able to create something of real quailty that could be "radio" quality - of which (depending on what sort of sound you are aiming for) is difficult to achieve without the technology and techinical skills.
I spend many years playing around with a 4 track. it does the job, records what you do, and can be burnt to CD. Find a friend in radio - and use their equipment.
The flaws (sp) that can be summed up in one (high interest rate - once again compare it to the market). How many people purchase a car for cash? We know it's smarter to, but sometimes it is just necessary to get a loan. These loans are over 2 - 3 years and end up charging a huge amount more. This is $35 / week for a year.
Work out over a 25 year mortgage huge much interest you pay... For a $100,000 house you will pay back normally around $300,000 over the 25 years. This is the nature of lending. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes - and again I'll say it - It is an option.
Can't afford the car? You have several options. 1) Save for it. 2) Borrow from someone else. 3) Get lending 4) Don't buy it.
Same here.
Thanks,
Stu
True, but lower price doesnt ...
True, but lower price doesnt necessarily mean lower quality. for example; STL Audio. (Which is actually in the same building as Marmalade) is very tops and very cheap. The kind of lending you are talking about is pretty much exactly what a record label would do for a band, and the band to pay them back out of royalties. Except you would be paying interest, etc with you. And if your band is good enough to even warrant going for a good quality recording project, then you would atleast have some sort of interest from a label for having a fanbase big enough to warrant spending that kind of cash.
The idea has merit, but the implementation is lacking.
//And if your band is good enough to ...
//And if your band is good enough to even warrant going for a good quality recording project, then you would atleast have some sort of interest from a label for having a fanbase big enough to warrant spending that kind of cash.//
$1200 is what will get the labels attention. Come on! It ain't that much, $300 per band member in a four man band. So what are you saying? If you're not signed to a label then you can't record to a decent quality, cause if you are then you're a goob. The Dukes of Lesiure, Cortina and Fat Freddies Drop (correct me if I'm wrong) spring to mind of bands with no label support who have come up with decent sounding recordings at various costs to the bands.
Some interest from a label before you can record, arghhhh! It's too frustrating trying to figure out where you're spacing out to on your whacky drugs to figure out where to start pulling the piss out of you...
Just for the record, I haven't ...
Just for the record, I haven't mentioned record labels at all here ;-)
That is to me what tall poppy syndrome ...
That is to me what tall poppy syndrome is, i'm not aiming this at you J man, don't worrry!
//The Dukes of Lesiure, Cortina and Fat ...
//The Dukes of Lesiure, Cortina and Fat Freddies Drop (correct me if I'm wrong) spring to mind of bands with no label support who have come up with decent sounding recordings at various costs to the bands.
I can confirm that well over $1200 has already been spent on the Dukes recordings - and we haven't even started to actually physically manufacter them yet!
Still you get what you pay for - and in this case it's quality and the ability to co-ordinate 8 musicians all at the same time :-)
Dr.Jon I was not saying that at all. ...
Dr.Jon
I was not saying that at all. I was saying, that you field test your material first, and if you have built up a fan base that would make recording a good quality recording (e.g, marketable material) actually worthwhile, then you would most likely have some form of interest from a label (be it indie or otherwise).
I was meaning that there are many alternate ways to get a recording done without borrowing the money.
5 words for you: Tall Poppy Syndrome My Ass...
I would actually have to be in a higher social or political vantage point to even beable to have that. And in my current state of affairs in music and the likewise, its just not happening.
Jelik,
on your site you have a statement
"Our united goal give away $400,000 by the end of 2005 through win / win transactions to charities of our joint choosing while constantly increasing our own wealth and education"
Something that put me off your whole website was the 'increasing our own wealth' part. To me it has 'used car salesman' ethics written all over it. This is a personal opinion, and others may feel differently. But I thought I'd voice it anyway.
Having said that, Ive looked over all aspects of your site and I think the ideas, and business ventures you have/are creating have alot of merit and some interesting features.
[ http://booze.at/rockommunity ]
//I was not saying that at all. I was ...
//I was not saying that at all. I was saying, that you field test your material first, and if you have built up a fan base that would make recording a good quality recording (e.g, marketable material) actually worthwhile, then you would most likely have some form of interest from a label (be it indie or otherwise).//
Field test. What like going to the surgey for three days? laying down some tracks getting your debut E.P done, so people beyond your local scene can hear the band? So you need fans to be able to say your music is good? Fuck man you live in some sort of hippy paradise, look at the Datsuns, they had a small fanbase in New Zealand, does that mean they couldn't record anything cause they weren't good enough? Your problem is this whole having a crowd and assuming a label would be interested if the band is good. Thats silly! I think only Wildside approached the Datsuns, everyone else ignored them till they got big.
What I'm saying is that anyone and everyone should have the ability to record. $35 a week ain't that much, 1200 ain't that much, but it can be too much all at once for a band. If they believe in themselves and want to do it then they have a right to be able to do it in any way they want to... If they need to take a loan out then thats what they're going to do.
By your standards i'm assuming you're 100% behind True Bliss, Carley Binding etc. Cause they have/had a fanbase, they had the label interest and they then recorded. And by that same measure I take it you disaproved of Two Lane Black Top doing their early demos, or Die! Die! Die! doing demo's last year when they still had Kane in the band...
Fair enough. Good call....
Fair enough. Good call.
[ http://booze.at/rockommunity ]
Thanks. I guess this is like any ...
Thanks. I guess this is like any lending - what is the purpose? That is something that has EML stand out a little, as once the money is approved - it is transfered directly to the agreed studio. The major bonus for this is that is takes away the "let's have a party" or "I'll only spend $200 on CD's - promise!". It elliminates deviation from the original purpose.
Loan approved = credit with studio.
I appreciate a more open minded view - thanks.
Stu
you seem to assume that musicians are ...
you seem to assume that musicians are unable to make informed financial decisions by themselves, and need a hand from 'good old Mr. money lender' to show them which path to take...
sadly, the opposite is true, and all anyone on this site has asked for is a bit of transparency regarding the terms of your loan - for some people borrowing 1200 bucks is a big financial decision, and i know i wouldn't be just jumping into it.
all you do by fobbing off questions is erode what little trust people had for you from your first post, so prove your heart is in the right place, stop patronising people and put your documentation where your mouth is...
I did a bit of a search on this guy and ...
I did a bit of a search on this guy and found this - his other business- which if you try to find anything more about it than what is listed here you can't, once again, without supplying various personal details. What you can find out is that on the surface it kinda looks like a pyramid scheme.
i.e. you pay me, I'll give you a website that looks like this and then if you are lucky someone will pay you. Me thinks this guy is an "Information Farmer".
From the site...
Important Notice:
All your ABC Infopak Emails will be "From" ME. And my name will also be at the top of each of your ABC Infopaks like this...
... "Requested ABC information from [name deleted]" - so if you have a firewall or Spam Filter, please allow it to accept your ABC Infopaks!
I mean, really, what kind of legit business asks you to disengage your firewall and spamfilter before you communicate with them?
This guy is obviously hiding something, or else he wouldn't be skirting around the questions.
"Neither a borrower or a lender be"
[ external link ]
//I mean, really, what kind of legit ...
//I mean, really, what kind of legit business asks you to disengage your firewall and spamfilter before you communicate with them?
It's not saying to disengage firewall/spam filter. A lot of spam filters are really strict with incoming mail; many mailing lists get bounced. It's a common request to add a mailing list to your "safe" list.
And personally I think you're overreacting now. You raised a bunch of good points, but now it's like you're going out of your way to find reasons to make this guy out to be some kind of mugger.
...and you <i>so</i> are the resident ...
...and you so are the resident nzm doom-and-gloom muso. ;)
//It's a common request to add a ...
//It's a common request to add a mailing list to your "safe" list.
there's a difference between putting a mailing list on your safe list and changing your global internet preferences - a big difference.
but i'm sick of this debate anyway...the guy ain't gonna budge, and i don't think anyone on here will trust him now....
//changing your global internet ...
//changing your global internet preferences
Sure, that's very irresponsible advice, but do you reckon this guy's secretly plotting to hack peoples' pcs with cookies? A heads-up, yes, fine, good, but do we really need the lynch mob?
//but do we really need the lynch mob? ...
//but do we really need the lynch mob?
of course...this is the internet!
Ah! True. As you were....
Ah! True. As you were.
//and you so are the resident nzm ...
//and you so are the resident nzm doom-and-gloom muso
Actually I call it 'Hoodoo Folk', and anyway - I'd prefer 'cynic' or at the least 'wounded idealist'.
Thank you Heather, I appreciate the ...
Thank you Heather, I appreciate the de-lynching ;-)
As mentioned in regards to the working from home (although it's not really that relevant here, but we have gotten into character issues for some reason) it is a company called 4Life (www.4life.com) which produces a product called Transfer Factors. The "working from home" part is a 90% automated way of leveraging your time - as most network marketing systems take up a lot of time.
Stu
[ external link ]
No worries. ..and "wounded idealist" ...
No worries.
..and "wounded idealist" it is.
from the 4life site..."payouts that can ...
from the 4life site..."payouts that can reach beyond 10 levels" now what is that if it's not a pyramid scheme. And the product is a "snake oil" made from cow colostrom.
I'll go away now. But I would have liked some straight answers. Transparency if you will. Doesn't look like I'll get them.
*wounded idealist leaves and closes the door quietly behind him and pushes the knitted snake back against the gap under the door to keep out the draft*
Before you head off Dragonstrip - ...
Before you head off Dragonstrip - perhaps a character reference is something you require. I understand you may know Peter Baillie - ask him about me if you wish.
Trasnfer Factors is made from cow collustrium (without the dairy - hence my boy who is dairy intollerant can use it).
There's no "showing which path to ...
There's no "showing which path to take" at all - again, quite the opposite. I definately don't think that people are stupid or need to be told what to do.
My vision is to promote NZ music, and to dispell the illusion that NZ musician's can't become professional in NZ (most people's perceptions are is that NZ is too small). EML will never enter into any kind of arrangement of any kind that is not completely win / win either. Our goal for the year is to be able to give $400,000 to charities (you know, good causes etc) by the end of the 2005 - heck - part of that is contributing 500 books to schools on financial literacy (Jamie McIntyre's book - www.jamiemcintyre.com). Every angle of everything we do is for the greater good - which is why I guess I feel somewhat insulted by ignorant comments.
I truely don't mind comments, hell - I was asking for feedback! But pure mud-slinging without seeing the bigger picture is just irritating. I can see where the points of views are coming from - we don't even encourage personal debt - but it is a great option for those who see the value.
If you don't see the value, that's fine - there are plenty of others that do.
Coming back to what now seems to be the only really issue - the fact that I haven't cut and pasted the terms and conditions of the $1,200 loan here. The information that you need to know up front is "How much are the repayments?" As this is a set amount, that's easy. If people want to go through the terms and conditions then I encourage them to fill in the "voicing of interest" form http://www.emlonline.biz/lending-form.php?
This is 2nd tier lending. The terms and conditions are readily available for anyone who is actually interested. Fill in the form and find out if you wish - doesn't mean you're stuck of committed to anything.
Enjoy your day. We live in a society where tall poppies are cut down daily - why don't we leave that for the politians.
[ http://www.emlonline.biz ]
whether you're legitimate or not ...
whether you're legitimate or not you're being extremely defensive - if i was actually mud-slinging i would have called you a 'fucking shifty cunt' or something...
if your application form is only an 'expression of interest' then why do you have to fill in bank account details, and full personal details?? thats much more than just an expression of interest, and as such there should be a LOT more documentation backing it up - where's your privacy policy, details of who's lending the money (because its obviously not you directly) and their financial ratings &c. This stuff should all be spelled out in black & white, and i can't see it anywhere - if its hidden away in another part of the site, then it shouldn't be. is your site secure - will all details be encrypted to prevent them getting stolen?
i'm pretty sure you aren't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, but the way this arrangement is set up looks really, really dodgy, believe me.....
oh, and to reply to posts, click the "reply to post" button :) makes the thread much easier to read
although from reading the following on ...
although from reading the following on your other site, maybe you are trying to pull a fast one, hence why we are being careful....
///Having difficulty logging in? Internet Explorer 6 might be to blame. Adjust the settings on your toolbar above:
Tools
Internet Options
Privacy
***Slide the bar all the way to the bottom***
Apply
OK
///
there's a damn good reason for those settings - its to stop 'fucking shifty cunts' like yourself.
//Enjoy your day. We live in a society ...
//Enjoy your day. We live in a society where tall poppies are cut down daily - why don't we leave that for the politians.//
I was steering away from the whole dragstrip thing, but that comment has rarked me up! This is not tall poppy syndrome! Enough of that mother fucking shit, yes it happens, but just because people are wary of potential loan sharks (as they should, you could well fall into that catagory for all we know) doesn't mean it's tall poppy syndrome, I've only seen one comment so far saying that muso's shouldn't get the loans because if they're not signed then they're not good enough. THAT is tall poppy syndrome.
Enough of the bullshit man, NZMer's have been digging their claws in over this, generally it's just been finding stuff that doesn't seem right and asking you about it, to clarify it with you.
//Tall Poppy Syndrome (TPS) is a term used in Australasia for a levelling social attitude, pushed to the point of bad behaviour. Someone has TPS, when he or she is envious, defamatory, or overly critical of someone because of their notionally higher economic, social or political position. //
Read that over before you use the term again.
You are correct Jon Jr - my appologises....
You are correct Jon Jr - my appologises.
Jelik, you seem like a fair enough ...
Jelik, you seem like a fair enough fellow, and getting bands (good ones hopefully) into thestudio and giving them a calling card for greater things is a good idea. Tall poppy syndrome is a phrase used too often at the moment, describing things which aren't TPS, that just rarks me up ;).
Good luck and I hope you've picked something up from these forums, cause there seem to be some valid constructive critisisms...