The 'what is NZ music' topic got me thinking...
I think maybe part of it has to do with the rise of kiwi music superstars- eg. The Finns, Dobbyn, Runga, Carter, Phillips, Toogood, etc... they have become compass points that you refer against when you hear new kiwi music.
The more stars rise from within the music scene, the more points of reference we end up with, and the weaker/more diverse the idea of a 'common NZ sound' becomes as a result.
What do you think?
Delicious
Digg
Reddit
Facebook
Google
Technorati
Yeah, good point, I remember Ray ...
Yeah, good point, I remember Ray Columbus, Howard Morrison, Split Endz etc and yeah they would be my reference point to an NZ sound to my youth, but then again I had more influences from the likes of England and America to contend with .. casey cassum top 40 anyone ..?? I guess if your growning up now with all the kiwi bands around and your exposed to that amount of " New Zealand" music your going to associate those bands as being a kiwi sound I guess ...
Once I again I refer to the musical ...
Once I again I refer to the musical wisdom of my greatly esteemed little brother. He made a comment on Breakfast TV about how people had compared Breaks Co-op to Trinity Roots sort of thing. (They were talking about NZ Music Month and what comprises Kiwi Music) His answer made sense to me - simply that there IS a New Zealand sound that has to do with being brought in a certain landscape with all that that engenders. You could argue, as others have, that there is no truly original NZ sound. Well, there is. It's called waiata Maori - the language is unique, the sounds are unique to music made in Aotearoa. When you incorporate that in music of today, which many people have, that's the indigenous NZ sound.
bollocky bums, that should read ...
bollocky bums, that should read "brought UP".
Most people overseas, if they know ...
Most people overseas, if they know anything about NZ music will mention Flying Nun. That was a distinctly NZ sound. Unless they're from Germany, and then its Shihad and Pitch Black. Crazy Krauts. I'm sure its been said before hundreds of times in these forums. But just thought Jackie you missed it.
Does anybody else think Dave Dobbyns new video was sponsored by ANZ? Sure Looks like their Ads....
//Does anybody else think Dave Dobbyns ...
//Does anybody else think Dave Dobbyns new video was sponsored by ANZ? Sure Looks like their Ads....
Actually my guess is it's Westpac - there's a segment in Dobbo's video, just like an ad as you say, where the camera moves in on an attractive pacific/asian working behind a counter in a Westpac bank. The bank's signage and motif etc is well on show. It is literally, just like an advert. Then there's a series of other not-so subtle product placements or ads - Mitre Ten among them...
well i guess whatever pays the bills.......
well i guess whatever pays the bills....
//Then there's a series of other ...
//Then there's a series of other not-so subtle product placements or ads
Have you guys seen that animated Baitercell video? That's got crazy mad placement - like I can understand why Hell and Red Bull would be up for it, but isn't Prannah just a cafe in Newtown? I thought that was an odd choice.
(sorry Foetusboy for a topic hijack)
actually the video maker who shall ...
actually the video maker who shall remain nameless got in big trouble for that- Timmy + Chris didn't know anything about it. Bad bad.... he'll never do it again...
:"waiata Maori - the language is ...
:"waiata Maori - the language is unique, the sounds are unique to music made in Aotearoa."
Agreed, and I've said a similar thing on a different post- but I don't find myself picking up the influence of traditional Aboriginal music in Kylie Minogue's music. Or Celtic overtones in any Spice Girls tune. Or traditional Swedish folk tunes from Abba. Yet Kylie couldn't be more Australian if she tried, or the Spice Girls more British, or Abba more Swedish.
What I'm getting at is how unhelpful/irrelevant it can be to say 'NZ music is made unique by the influence of Maori culture'- If you're after an overview of 'the sound' of a particular country, most people will simply look to their most succesful musicians. It happens to be the case in New Zealand that we have several successful musicians incorporating elements of Maori Culture into their music- but you can't hear that influence everywhere, or look at it in isolation- it's just one part of the puzzle.
nz sound = songs about weather, ...
nz sound = songs about weather, spacious tunes, downbeat tempos, humility.
Kirk, I never bought into the whole ...
Kirk, I never bought into the whole Flying Nun thing - but yes, distinctly Kiwi that sound.I happen to think there's lots of music that is distinctly Kiwi, but as I have said elsewhere music is a very subjective and personal thing, and that's just me. I'm old enough to remember a number of artists that I think are very, very kiwi flavoured - for example.......Herbs,Blam Blam Blam,etc etc. And I think that's all it is really - kiwi flavoured music. As for the whole Maori thing, I was referring to a discussion on another forum about truly indigenous music - I wasn't intimating that all NZ music is about the indigenous culture that comes through in it.
Wonder if we were to get a few random ...
Wonder if we were to get a few random people, both from NZ and overseas and play them music from a number of countries ... including their own .... weather they would be able to say .. ohhh that's from NZ I can hear it in the music, or that's from canada it's got that canadian sound, or maybe get bands / singer song writers to do cover versions of other countries songs and throw that in the mix see if they can get the right feel as to what the music is telling them about it's origins and why it sounds the way it dose ..
yes I can see Dobbo was aiming at the ...
yes I can see Dobbo was aiming at the humility thing with his new video... hence the Mitre 10 theme
I think Dobbo stopped making nz music ...
I think Dobbo stopped making nz music when he became born again.
// I think Dobbo stopped making nz ...
// I think Dobbo stopped making nz music when he became born again.
Not *all* of his recent stuff is bad. I'm actually wondering whether it's the absence of liquor rather than religion. He's claimed to be much more prolific since he stopped drinking, but I'm not sure that writing more has ended up equating to writing better....
Really not a fan of the new song (or the video).
I might've said 'it's our unique ...
I might've said 'it's our unique landscape' at some point- jeez, I've lost count of the number of new song ideas that have jumped into my head driving through the Wellington Motorway tunnel...
but New Zealand can't really claim exclusive rights to motorway tunnels, or mountains, lakes, streams, forests, open spaces, geographical isolation... musicians draw upon their environment for inspiration all over the world- this doesn't necessarily produce 'unique sounding' music in and of itself. Sometimes you'll hear it, sometimes you won't. Depends how you're feeling.
And I'm feeling tired... goodnight ...
And I'm feeling tired... goodnight nurse. Download Festival tomorrow.
I think you've also got to look from ...
I think you've also got to look from the other end as well - from a global perspective music is becoming more and more melded together, with different cultures and genres constantly entwining in different ways, and small microtrends of new styles. As this happens more and more on a global scale, it's harder for individual countries or regions to maintain a seperate musical identity, as is the case for New Zealand.
I think that you're also right, though - there's no one definitive New Zealand sound. The Finns, Trinity Roots and Straitjacket Fits are all valid and visible reference points, and it's difficuly to pigeonhole all of them too closely together. If this is what you mean? It's late at night.
I want to know more about this B + S ...
I want to know more about this B + S video...kirk?
I saw on C4 and was completely disgusted by just how much product placement there was (and the fact that it looked pretty shit over all). If the band didn't know about it how did it get on air? Was it all paid advertisment or some post-modern art piece? and go on do tell us who made it, the video sucked balls and he deserves to be 'outed'?
sorry he or she deserves to be ...
sorry he or she deserves to be 'outed'!
as far as i know the video maker took ...
as far as i know the video maker took money from Red Bull and Hell for it. I don't know if that money was used to up the quality of film etc... you'd have to ask him...
not gonna name names bro but it should be fairly obvious if i say that he's known for Jakob and Gramsci Videos.... lovely guy, and as i say- i'm sure he's learnt his lesson.
I havent seen the video in question ...
I havent seen the video in question yet, but i have to say the Dobbyn video was pretty heavy on product placement, so much so that perhaps people didnt even notice it.
but i guess, hey, it's the dobbynator and he does what he does...
Shoot me if you want, but I think ...
Shoot me if you want, but I think product placement is a good idea, depending on the products being placed. I like the B&S video, although granted it's pretty suss if it was done without the artists' knowledge.
After all, with so many bands and so few video grants, I don't see a problem funding a video like that. And personally I'd rather see logos in a music video of products that are no doubt littering more than a few muso homes / studios / editing suites, than hear my favourite tunes backing an ad.
I never noticed any product placement in Dobbyn's video, but the whole thing smacks of an extended community service message as it is.
yep the artist has to know. And it has ...
yep the artist has to know. And it has to be done tastefully. And i actually don't think Dobbyns product placement was intentional. Maybe i'm being naive now. But really how many american booty videos dio you see that plug coke or mcdonalds? i can't think of any (except coke and mcdonalds ads which look like music videos- o wait maybe thats pepsi..) anyhow i can't think of any. Infact most of the time labels like Nike etc are blurred out. Maybe that means the record label has too much money and doesn't need corporate sponsorship- i'm sure its not because the record company has a high standard of ethics and doesn't want to promote sweatshop labour. Is red bull made by coke? Yeah i agree, kinda, if there are other ways to get money for music videos other than stating yr case to the government then good on them. Just do yr product placement like fight club.
tell you what though...gotta respect ...
tell you what though...gotta respect that man with his choices of towns to play in for his release tour. By passes all the regular stops and plays in like Akaroa, Kati Kati, Opotiki, Dannevirke, Russell, Dargaville. Love it.
gotta respect that man fullstop, ...
gotta respect that man fullstop, reallly. He's like the alcoholic uncle i never had....
granted, well product placement aint ...
granted, well product placement aint all bad. I guess it's about how it's done.
The thing with Dobbo's vid that may have disturbed me was the presence of a bank advert , and all the other things, within what, as Heather said, really did just seem like a community service message. That particular combo just seemed yucky.
oh yeah, good on the old bastard for the choice of towns to tour.
Blink, you ever put a show on in Dargaville?
//he's known for Jakob and Gramsci ...
//he's known for Jakob and Gramsci Videos
what the fuck, not ed..... is it? I don't know anything, just he's talked about being heavily involved with Gramsci vids before. If it is him that's a fairly large leap from his attitude on nzm.
// Blink, you ever put a show on in ...
// Blink, you ever put a show on in Dargaville?
not yet:)
shit, I haven't put on shows in ANY of the 16 places he is visiting on tour. haha... to be honest I'd never even heard of Eltham.
// Infact most of the time labels like ...
// Infact most of the time labels like Nike etc are blurred out.
// Maybe that means the record label has too much money and
// doesn't need corporate sponsorship- i'm sure its not because
// the record company has a high standard of ethics and doesn't
// want to promote sweatshop labour.
It's probably more along the lines of not giving it away for free. ie. "This is where your product placement would have been, if you'd just forked out the cash."
the 'offending' B&S video is here for ...
the 'offending' B&S video is here for those (like me) who haven't seen it on the telly...
[ external link ]
hA! what a coincidence, Dobbo's in the ...
hA! what a coincidence, Dobbo's in the same building as me as i write this...
//what the fuck, ...a fairly large leap ...
//what the fuck, ...a fairly large leap from his attitude on nzm.
fark! Tell me about it!!!
i thought the band organised the ...
i thought the band organised the sponsorship.
Forget vids, I read recently that ...
Forget vids, I read recently that McDonalds give American hip-pop artists royalties for mentioning them or their products favourably in the lyrics of their songs as well. The cash is based on the amount of play the song gets and the prominence of the product mentions.
I would be amazed if McDonalds are the only company to do this. I often wonder whether it's got to that point for Courvoisier, Hennessy etc - surely the MCs and singers were originally mentioning these things as status symbols, but now they must see the cash potential from this kind of thing.
// I often wonder whether it's got to ...
// I often wonder whether it's got to that point for Courvoisier, Hennessy etc
// - surely the MCs and singers were originally mentioning these things as
// status symbols, but now they must see the cash potential from this kind of thing.
indeed. Hence the rise of the American Brandstand chart - measuring the popularity of brandnames in current chart-toppers.
[ http://www.agendainc.com/brand.html ]
If I become a rapper & mention my ...
If I become a rapper & mention my favourite labels, what do reckon my chances of engineering a few kickbacks from World and Starfish? Hey, maybe I should get a few kickbacks just from writing about them! Denise? Laurie?
Ahhhh... just found this article on ...
Ahhhh... just found this article on MTV's site as well, which mentions the one song I had in mind - Busta Rhymes' 'Pass the Courvoisier'. Coincidentally Scribe played this one last weekend when hosting Oz video show Rage.
[ external link ]
// Hey, maybe I should get a few ...
// Hey, maybe I should get a few kickbacks just from writing about them!
tried it. no joy.
well maybe ii got the chinese whispered ...
well maybe ii got the chinese whispered version. If so, many many apologies. I think the Jakob videos are great. B+S one? well thats right- stands for Bull Shit. Red Bull Shit. damn i could go a hell pizza right now...
blink do y'self a favour.... NEVER ...
blink do y'self a favour.... NEVER EVER play Dargaville... it's like 1 hour west of whangarei... it'll be 2 dudes in gumboots going .. "whats this out-of-it shit mate"? ... with none of that southern hospo you praise so much so be seen.
RE: Product placement ... Most blatent vid i saw was for that R&B dude "MACE" ... his video was hard out BLATENTLY pushin Nikes , .... i think the lyrics we're something ingenious and magical like "HEY YO, MACE IS BACK!" about 400 times ... amazing.
then again Blink... you'd be one to ...
then again Blink... you'd be one to change that and prove me wrong... go hard boy.. get those posters up in the tractor supplies shop!
..oh dear. That particular film maker ...
..oh dear. That particular film maker is a very nice chap indeed. And a talented one to boot (i have infact collaborated with this person and I know feel like a dick). I shall have to my hat. But it is a sucky video by a director whos past triumphs are so awesome that I'm sure it wont stop him getting work etc. But it seems very very odd to me...
By the way I love that new dobbo single, i think its a great message and a pretty song. so there!
If there is ANY doubt about artists ...
If there is ANY doubt about artists receiving money for product placement, the one song that definitely should be mentioned here is Nelly - 'Air Force Ones'. As in, the title is a shoe.
haha. I think dargaville is safe for ...
haha. I think dargaville is safe for now. Dannevirke is another matter entirely. Where is Eltham? taranaki somewhere?
I remember passing through a town on the way from New Plymouth to Napier on that last "mockasins" tour. We stopped in this small town and I saw the town hall and this was the town where I decided I wanted to bring some kick ass bands to tiny towns. I forget the name of the town as we were totally lost (only time I ever got lost all year, trying to navigate the shortest way from NP to napier ain't that easy)
// haha. I think dargaville is safe for ...
// haha. I think dargaville is safe for now. Dannevirke is another matter entirely. Where is Eltham? taranaki somewhere? ....
THE LOW HUM "WHERE THE FUCK ARE WE / GET ME A MAP TOUR"...
i'LL GLADLY COME ON TOUR AND DROP SOME HILLBILLY HITS, PERHAPS SPIN SOME COW PATTS.. Rizz Telford would HAVE to be involved.. bless that indie farmer.
www.ilovethelooksigetintaihape.com
hey kirk - tell me all about this stuff ...
hey kirk - tell me all about this stuff you heard
me & B&S & ALL the sponsors are very happy with the video
and there's been absolutely no bad vibe between any of us about any of the process of producing the video... from devising / approaching sponsors to delivery - everything has run real smoothly
who's feeding you the misinformation?
[ http://underbelly.co.nz ]
i hope u ain't mixing me up with the ...
i hope u ain't mixing me up with the dave dobbyn video - nothing to do with me
and devil rider =) ur welcome to hate ...
and devil rider =) ur welcome to hate the vid - no hard feelings
Thanks Ed.... you know I love ya (if ...
Thanks Ed.... you know I love ya (if you know who I am!)